Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    His team control runs out after 2013.




    ik moon, i definitely want him on the team in 2013 and beyond if he proves he is up to the challenge.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    His team control runs out after 2013.




    ik moon, i definitely want him on the team in 2013 and beyond if he proves he is up to the challenge.



    If we don't trade him, we should extend him now.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    His team control runs out after 2013.




    ik moon, i definitely want him on the team in 2013 and beyond if he proves he is up to the challenge.



    If we don't trade him, we should extend him now.




    not a bad plan because personally i believe in him. but looking at it from an objective standpoint maybe the sox FO is looking at 2013 as a decision year. if he excells and gets better then they will go all in, if not then they let him walk. plus it gives them another year to decide lavas future as a catcher and also as a member of the sox organization.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Do not make that bet if money is involved. I've given my opinion many times on Salty's handling of pitchers. So has Moon. So has Danny Cater. So has Southpaw. You have some catching up to do.
    Posted by expitch



    Im going to chime in one final time on this topic...I started to comment here because what I was seeing was what danny, ex, and Moon were, which was a catcher improving...IMPROVING...I never said, nor do I believe ex, moon or danny have said, that Salty was the catcher of the future...He was improving, simple as that and we made very valid arguments.
    Personally, I think he hit a wall. First full season back there. people can say hes been in the league for 4 years, but thats not looking at the full picture and Im not going to explain it to anyone again because im tired of doing so. maybe cause it doesnt involve numbers, I dont know. I know what certain stats say and I know what my eyes see...There is truth to both, but for a good 2-3 month period salty was really looking good no matter what older stats said...As of late the K rate has gone through the roof and he looked like he was tired. Thats why I think Lav was brought up.
    Ive held the position that if you can improve the team by trading a player than everyone is tradable, including Salty. Lav has shown absolutely NO OFFENSE since coming up. Thats not to say he wont because I believe he will. Its just funny how everyone wanted this kid playing a while ago because of his offense which is nowhere to be found...Yet.
    Bottom line for me is I would be fine with a Salty/Lavarnway combo. Over the long term Shoppach will kill this lineup offensively IMO, and i dont think his defense or game calling is so much of a difference that it will hurt them if he goes.
    I would also be fine with them trading Salty if they get a solid return that will improve this team. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens this offseason, or maybe even sooner than that...



    Like your perception and thoughts. This says it all . Don't know this thread is so long.

     

     




    I had said that one of the biggest issues we needed to discover in 2012 was Salty's durability. I was a bit upset when they ended the experiment by playing Lava so much at the end. Now, it's hard to tell if Salty just had a slump, or if he really just ran out of gas. The sample size became to small at the end, so the data is tainted. 

    I did do a study of how well Salty hit after a day off. I can't recall the excat n umbers, but he did much better after rest.

    Most catchers need rest, and Salty was about in the middle of the pack for innings caught. I'm not going to argue with anyone saying he lacks stamina, because there is no evidence to counter that point.

    Since Salty has such stark splits vs RHPs and LHPs, I'm happy with handing him the starting job vs RHPs only and resting him 50-55 games vs LH'd starters. The problem with this plan is that Salty is only under team control for 2013. If we don't extend him, we will likely lose him. If he does great, his price goes up. If he does poorly, we won't want him anyways. I won't get into the "we have no serious chance this year" argument here, but I think trading him this winter is the best idea for our future. We can alsways sign him as a FA next winter if he does well elsewhere.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Do not make that bet if money is involved. I've given my opinion many times on Salty's handling of pitchers. So has Moon. So has Danny Cater. So has Southpaw. You have some catching up to do.
    Posted by expitch



    Im going to chime in one final time on this topic...I started to comment here because what I was seeing was what danny, ex, and Moon were, which was a catcher improving...IMPROVING...I never said, nor do I believe ex, moon or danny have said, that Salty was the catcher of the future...He was improving, simple as that and we made very valid arguments.
    Personally, I think he hit a wall. First full season back there. people can say hes been in the league for 4 years, but thats not looking at the full picture and Im not going to explain it to anyone again because im tired of doing so. maybe cause it doesnt involve numbers, I dont know. I know what certain stats say and I know what my eyes see...There is truth to both, but for a good 2-3 month period salty was really looking good no matter what older stats said...As of late the K rate has gone through the roof and he looked like he was tired. Thats why I think Lav was brought up.
    Ive held the position that if you can improve the team by trading a player than everyone is tradable, including Salty. Lav has shown absolutely NO OFFENSE since coming up. Thats not to say he wont because I believe he will. Its just funny how everyone wanted this kid playing a while ago because of his offense which is nowhere to be found...Yet.
    Bottom line for me is I would be fine with a Salty/Lavarnway combo. Over the long term Shoppach will kill this lineup offensively IMO, and i dont think his defense or game calling is so much of a difference that it will hurt them if he goes.
    I would also be fine with them trading Salty if they get a solid return that will improve this team. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens this offseason, or maybe even sooner than that...



    Like your perception and thoughts. This says it all . Don't know this thread is so long.

     

     




    I had said that one of the biggest issues we needed to discover in 2012 was Salty's durability. I was a bit upset when they ended the experiment by playing Lava so much at the end. Now, it's hard to tell if Salty just had a slump, or if he really just ran out of gas. The sample size became to small at the end, so the data is tainted. 

    I did do a study of how well Salty hit after a day off. I can't recall the excat n umbers, but he did much better after rest.

    Most catchers need rest, and Salty was about in the middle of the pack for innings caught. I'm not going to argue with anyone saying he lacks stamina, because there is no evidence to counter that point.

    Since Salty has such stark splits vs RHPs and LHPs, I'm happy with handing him the starting job vs RHPs only and resting him 50-55 games vs LH'd starters. The problem with this plan is that Salty is only under team control for 2013. If we don't extend him, we will likely lose him. If he does great, his price goes up. If he does poorly, we won't want him anyways. I won't get into the "we have no serious chance this year" argument here, but I think trading him this winter is the best idea for our future. We can alsways sign him as a FA next winter if he does well elsewhere.




    would he even want to come back as a FA after we pretty much threw him out? when ther is a spot for you on the roster and a team trades you isn't that the equivanent of them saying "your garbage. see ya later"? why would he want to come back after something like that?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Do not make that bet if money is involved. I've given my opinion many times on Salty's handling of pitchers. So has Moon. So has Danny Cater. So has Southpaw. You have some catching up to do.
    Posted by expitch



    Im going to chime in one final time on this topic...I started to comment here because what I was seeing was what danny, ex, and Moon were, which was a catcher improving...IMPROVING...I never said, nor do I believe ex, moon or danny have said, that Salty was the catcher of the future...He was improving, simple as that and we made very valid arguments.
    Personally, I think he hit a wall. First full season back there. people can say hes been in the league for 4 years, but thats not looking at the full picture and Im not going to explain it to anyone again because im tired of doing so. maybe cause it doesnt involve numbers, I dont know. I know what certain stats say and I know what my eyes see...There is truth to both, but for a good 2-3 month period salty was really looking good no matter what older stats said...As of late the K rate has gone through the roof and he looked like he was tired. Thats why I think Lav was brought up.
    Ive held the position that if you can improve the team by trading a player than everyone is tradable, including Salty. Lav has shown absolutely NO OFFENSE since coming up. Thats not to say he wont because I believe he will. Its just funny how everyone wanted this kid playing a while ago because of his offense which is nowhere to be found...Yet.
    Bottom line for me is I would be fine with a Salty/Lavarnway combo. Over the long term Shoppach will kill this lineup offensively IMO, and i dont think his defense or game calling is so much of a difference that it will hurt them if he goes.
    I would also be fine with them trading Salty if they get a solid return that will improve this team. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens this offseason, or maybe even sooner than that...



    Like your perception and thoughts. This says it all . Don't know this thread is so long.

     

     




    I had said that one of the biggest issues we needed to discover in 2012 was Salty's durability. I was a bit upset when they ended the experiment by playing Lava so much at the end. Now, it's hard to tell if Salty just had a slump, or if he really just ran out of gas. The sample size became to small at the end, so the data is tainted. 

    I did do a study of how well Salty hit after a day off. I can't recall the excat n umbers, but he did much better after rest.

    Most catchers need rest, and Salty was about in the middle of the pack for innings caught. I'm not going to argue with anyone saying he lacks stamina, because there is no evidence to counter that point.

    Since Salty has such stark splits vs RHPs and LHPs, I'm happy with handing him the starting job vs RHPs only and resting him 50-55 games vs LH'd starters. The problem with this plan is that Salty is only under team control for 2013. If we don't extend him, we will likely lose him. If he does great, his price goes up. If he does poorly, we won't want him anyways. I won't get into the "we have no serious chance this year" argument here, but I think trading him this winter is the best idea for our future. We can alsways sign him as a FA next winter if he does well elsewhere.




    would he even want to come back as a FA after we pretty much threw him out? when ther is a spot for you on the roster and a team trades you isn't that the equivanent of them saying "your garbage. see ya later"? why would he want to come back after something like that?



    It doesn't happen often, but he did have his best season so far with half his games in Fenway, so...

    I'm looking at the Sox through the glasses of what is best for 2014 and beyond. If...

    Salty has a great year, we may have the inside track on extending him and keeping him here, but as past examples have shown, it is never at a "home discount rate" with the Sox.

    Salty has an OK year, and he basically has little effect on our future, especially if he walks and we get nothing for him.

    Salty has a bad year, and we wish we had traded him while his stock was high(er).

     

    I'm not sure what we could get for him now. I still think he is easily better than 10-15 team's catchers right now, especially vs RHPs. Only 10 MLB catchers had a higher OPS vs RHPs than Salty in 2013 (300+ PAs) and only 4 catchers had more PAs vs RHPs and a better OPS.

    Only 6 MLB teams had a higher OPS vs RHPs than Salty's .779. I think some GM would love him on his team and would give us a nice prospect for him, or we could packagae salty with other players to fill a higher need area.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Do not make that bet if money is involved. I've given my opinion many times on Salty's handling of pitchers. So has Moon. So has Danny Cater. So has Southpaw. You have some catching up to do.
    Posted by expitch



    Im going to chime in one final time on this topic...I started to comment here because what I was seeing was what danny, ex, and Moon were, which was a catcher improving...IMPROVING...I never said, nor do I believe ex, moon or danny have said, that Salty was the catcher of the future...He was improving, simple as that and we made very valid arguments.
    Personally, I think he hit a wall. First full season back there. people can say hes been in the league for 4 years, but thats not looking at the full picture and Im not going to explain it to anyone again because im tired of doing so. maybe cause it doesnt involve numbers, I dont know. I know what certain stats say and I know what my eyes see...There is truth to both, but for a good 2-3 month period salty was really looking good no matter what older stats said...As of late the K rate has gone through the roof and he looked like he was tired. Thats why I think Lav was brought up.
    Ive held the position that if you can improve the team by trading a player than everyone is tradable, including Salty. Lav has shown absolutely NO OFFENSE since coming up. Thats not to say he wont because I believe he will. Its just funny how everyone wanted this kid playing a while ago because of his offense which is nowhere to be found...Yet.
    Bottom line for me is I would be fine with a Salty/Lavarnway combo. Over the long term Shoppach will kill this lineup offensively IMO, and i dont think his defense or game calling is so much of a difference that it will hurt them if he goes.
    I would also be fine with them trading Salty if they get a solid return that will improve this team. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens this offseason, or maybe even sooner than that...



    Like your perception and thoughts. This says it all . Don't know this thread is so long.

     

     




    I had said that one of the biggest issues we needed to discover in 2012 was Salty's durability. I was a bit upset when they ended the experiment by playing Lava so much at the end. Now, it's hard to tell if Salty just had a slump, or if he really just ran out of gas. The sample size became to small at the end, so the data is tainted. 

    I did do a study of how well Salty hit after a day off. I can't recall the excat n umbers, but he did much better after rest.

    Most catchers need rest, and Salty was about in the middle of the pack for innings caught. I'm not going to argue with anyone saying he lacks stamina, because there is no evidence to counter that point.

    Since Salty has such stark splits vs RHPs and LHPs, I'm happy with handing him the starting job vs RHPs only and resting him 50-55 games vs LH'd starters. The problem with this plan is that Salty is only under team control for 2013. If we don't extend him, we will likely lose him. If he does great, his price goes up. If he does poorly, we won't want him anyways. I won't get into the "we have no serious chance this year" argument here, but I think trading him this winter is the best idea for our future. We can alsways sign him as a FA next winter if he does well elsewhere.




    would he even want to come back as a FA after we pretty much threw him out? when ther is a spot for you on the roster and a team trades you isn't that the equivanent of them saying "your garbage. see ya later"? why would he want to come back after something like that?



    It doesn't happen often, but he did have his best season so far with half his games in Fenway, so...

    I'm looking at the Sox through the glasses of what is best for 2014 and beyond. If...

    Salty has a great year, we may have the inside track on extending him and keeping him here, but as past examples have shown, it is never at a "home discount rate" with the Sox.

    Salty has an OK year, and he basically has little effect on our future, especially if he walks and we get nothing for him.

    Salty has a bad year, and we wish we had traded him while his stock was high(er).

     

    I'm not sure what we could get for him now. I still think he is easily better than 10-15 team's catchers right now, especially vs RHPs. Only 10 MLB catchers had a higher OPS vs RHPs than Salty in 2013 (300+ PAs) and only 4 catchers had more PAs vs RHPs and a better OPS.

    Only 6 MLB teams had a higher OPS vs RHPs than Salty's .779. I think some GM would love him on his team and would give us a nice prospect for him, or we could packagae salty with other players to fill a higher need area.




    there certainly is the aspect of the unknown but i still think he is our best bet for the future. he has the most experience with our pitching staff and seems to handle them better each time hes out there. 2013 will definitely be his make-or-break season. I'm not worried about how much money salty gets. however much it is he will have earned it.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Do not make that bet if money is involved. I've given my opinion many times on Salty's handling of pitchers. So has Moon. So has Danny Cater. So has Southpaw. You have some catching up to do.
    Posted by expitch



    Im going to chime in one final time on this topic...I started to comment here because what I was seeing was what danny, ex, and Moon were, which was a catcher improving...IMPROVING...I never said, nor do I believe ex, moon or danny have said, that Salty was the catcher of the future...He was improving, simple as that and we made very valid arguments.
    Personally, I think he hit a wall. First full season back there. people can say hes been in the league for 4 years, but thats not looking at the full picture and Im not going to explain it to anyone again because im tired of doing so. maybe cause it doesnt involve numbers, I dont know. I know what certain stats say and I know what my eyes see...There is truth to both, but for a good 2-3 month period salty was really looking good no matter what older stats said...As of late the K rate has gone through the roof and he looked like he was tired. Thats why I think Lav was brought up.
    Ive held the position that if you can improve the team by trading a player than everyone is tradable, including Salty. Lav has shown absolutely NO OFFENSE since coming up. Thats not to say he wont because I believe he will. Its just funny how everyone wanted this kid playing a while ago because of his offense which is nowhere to be found...Yet.
    Bottom line for me is I would be fine with a Salty/Lavarnway combo. Over the long term Shoppach will kill this lineup offensively IMO, and i dont think his defense or game calling is so much of a difference that it will hurt them if he goes.
    I would also be fine with them trading Salty if they get a solid return that will improve this team. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens this offseason, or maybe even sooner than that...



    Like your perception and thoughts. This says it all . Don't know this thread is so long.

     

     




    I had said that one of the biggest issues we needed to discover in 2012 was Salty's durability. I was a bit upset when they ended the experiment by playing Lava so much at the end. Now, it's hard to tell if Salty just had a slump, or if he really just ran out of gas. The sample size became to small at the end, so the data is tainted. 

    I did do a study of how well Salty hit after a day off. I can't recall the excat n umbers, but he did much better after rest.

    Most catchers need rest, and Salty was about in the middle of the pack for innings caught. I'm not going to argue with anyone saying he lacks stamina, because there is no evidence to counter that point.

    Since Salty has such stark splits vs RHPs and LHPs, I'm happy with handing him the starting job vs RHPs only and resting him 50-55 games vs LH'd starters. The problem with this plan is that Salty is only under team control for 2013. If we don't extend him, we will likely lose him. If he does great, his price goes up. If he does poorly, we won't want him anyways. I won't get into the "we have no serious chance this year" argument here, but I think trading him this winter is the best idea for our future. We can alsways sign him as a FA next winter if he does well elsewhere.




    would he even want to come back as a FA after we pretty much threw him out? when ther is a spot for you on the roster and a team trades you isn't that the equivanent of them saying "your garbage. see ya later"? why would he want to come back after something like that?



    It doesn't happen often, but he did have his best season so far with half his games in Fenway, so...

    I'm looking at the Sox through the glasses of what is best for 2014 and beyond. If...

    Salty has a great year, we may have the inside track on extending him and keeping him here, but as past examples have shown, it is never at a "home discount rate" with the Sox.

    Salty has an OK year, and he basically has little effect on our future, especially if he walks and we get nothing for him.

    Salty has a bad year, and we wish we had traded him while his stock was high(er).

     

    I'm not sure what we could get for him now. I still think he is easily better than 10-15 team's catchers right now, especially vs RHPs. Only 10 MLB catchers had a higher OPS vs RHPs than Salty in 2013 (300+ PAs) and only 4 catchers had more PAs vs RHPs and a better OPS.

    Only 6 MLB teams had a higher OPS vs RHPs than Salty's .779. I think some GM would love him on his team and would give us a nice prospect for him, or we could packagae salty with other players to fill a higher need area.




    there certainly is the aspect of the unknown but i still think he is our best bet for the future. he has the most experience with our pitching staff and seems to handle them better each time hes out there. 2013 will definitely be his make-or-break season. I'm not worried about how much money salty gets. however much it is he will have earned it.



    I'm pretty sure this is how Ben sees it: wait the year and decide then.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Do not make that bet if money is involved. I've given my opinion many times on Salty's handling of pitchers. So has Moon. So has Danny Cater. So has Southpaw. You have some catching up to do.
    Posted by expitch



    Im going to chime in one final time on this topic...I started to comment here because what I was seeing was what danny, ex, and Moon were, which was a catcher improving...IMPROVING...I never said, nor do I believe ex, moon or danny have said, that Salty was the catcher of the future...He was improving, simple as that and we made very valid arguments.
    Personally, I think he hit a wall. First full season back there. people can say hes been in the league for 4 years, but thats not looking at the full picture and Im not going to explain it to anyone again because im tired of doing so. maybe cause it doesnt involve numbers, I dont know. I know what certain stats say and I know what my eyes see...There is truth to both, but for a good 2-3 month period salty was really looking good no matter what older stats said...As of late the K rate has gone through the roof and he looked like he was tired. Thats why I think Lav was brought up.
    Ive held the position that if you can improve the team by trading a player than everyone is tradable, including Salty. Lav has shown absolutely NO OFFENSE since coming up. Thats not to say he wont because I believe he will. Its just funny how everyone wanted this kid playing a while ago because of his offense which is nowhere to be found...Yet.
    Bottom line for me is I would be fine with a Salty/Lavarnway combo. Over the long term Shoppach will kill this lineup offensively IMO, and i dont think his defense or game calling is so much of a difference that it will hurt them if he goes.
    I would also be fine with them trading Salty if they get a solid return that will improve this team. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens this offseason, or maybe even sooner than that...



    Like your perception and thoughts. This says it all . Don't know this thread is so long.

     

     




    I had said that one of the biggest issues we needed to discover in 2012 was Salty's durability. I was a bit upset when they ended the experiment by playing Lava so much at the end. Now, it's hard to tell if Salty just had a slump, or if he really just ran out of gas. The sample size became to small at the end, so the data is tainted. 

    I did do a study of how well Salty hit after a day off. I can't recall the excat n umbers, but he did much better after rest.

    Most catchers need rest, and Salty was about in the middle of the pack for innings caught. I'm not going to argue with anyone saying he lacks stamina, because there is no evidence to counter that point.

    Since Salty has such stark splits vs RHPs and LHPs, I'm happy with handing him the starting job vs RHPs only and resting him 50-55 games vs LH'd starters. The problem with this plan is that Salty is only under team control for 2013. If we don't extend him, we will likely lose him. If he does great, his price goes up. If he does poorly, we won't want him anyways. I won't get into the "we have no serious chance this year" argument here, but I think trading him this winter is the best idea for our future. We can alsways sign him as a FA next winter if he does well elsewhere.




    would he even want to come back as a FA after we pretty much threw him out? when ther is a spot for you on the roster and a team trades you isn't that the equivanent of them saying "your garbage. see ya later"? why would he want to come back after something like that?



    It doesn't happen often, but he did have his best season so far with half his games in Fenway, so...

    I'm looking at the Sox through the glasses of what is best for 2014 and beyond. If...

    Salty has a great year, we may have the inside track on extending him and keeping him here, but as past examples have shown, it is never at a "home discount rate" with the Sox.

    Salty has an OK year, and he basically has little effect on our future, especially if he walks and we get nothing for him.

    Salty has a bad year, and we wish we had traded him while his stock was high(er).

     

    I'm not sure what we could get for him now. I still think he is easily better than 10-15 team's catchers right now, especially vs RHPs. Only 10 MLB catchers had a higher OPS vs RHPs than Salty in 2013 (300+ PAs) and only 4 catchers had more PAs vs RHPs and a better OPS.

    Only 6 MLB teams had a higher OPS vs RHPs than Salty's .779. I think some GM would love him on his team and would give us a nice prospect for him, or we could packagae salty with other players to fill a higher need area.




    there certainly is the aspect of the unknown but i still think he is our best bet for the future. he has the most experience with our pitching staff and seems to handle them better each time hes out there. 2013 will definitely be his make-or-break season. I'm not worried about how much money salty gets. however much it is he will have earned it.



    I'm pretty sure this is how Ben sees it: wait the year and decide then.



    ill give ya that one lol. it makes sense though. Salty isn't exactly a sure thing ya know? its the same deal with Ells. See how this final year plays out and then decide if he's worth it. The only difference is we have the option to extend Salty if we so choose.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    The only difference is we have the option to extend Salty if we so choose.

    They both can walk if they want or be extended if the Sox and they want to.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    The only difference is we have the option to extend Salty if we so choose.

    They both can walk if they want or be extended if the Sox and they want to.




    the possibility is there lol but i was referring more to the realistic-ness of that happening. We've been talking probabilities lately, if we offered both salty and jacoby an extension tonight, (comparable to each's skillset) who is more likely to sign? I'd give Ells a 5% chance and salty an 85% chance

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I wouldn't offer Ells an extension he'd even come close to accepting.

    My offer to Salty might be closer to what he might accept.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I wouldn't offer Ells an extension he'd even come close to accepting.

    My offer to Salty might be closer to what he might accept.




    i guess the sox have been getting offers for Salty. thats what MLBTR says anyway.. we'll see what happens

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Ive wanted Salty to play in Boston for his final arb year. I think its the best way to do things. Lav isnt a catcher and they will realize that and switch him off the position. Ross can help Salty and his improvement in 2013. I hope he does well and we can extend him for a few years.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I wouldn't offer Ells an extension he'd even come close to accepting.

    My offer to Salty might be closer to what he might accept.




    i guess the sox have been getting offers for Salty. thats what MLBTR says anyway.. we'll see what happens



    With the state of catchers these days being so sad, especially offensively and even more so vs RHPs, I think some team will cave in and overpay to get Salty on their roster. It may happen mid-season, but I am still pretty sure Salty gets dealt this year, no matter how well or poorly  Lava is doing in AAA.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

     

    The Red Sox have plenty of catchers and the Yankees need one.   LOL

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

    The Red Sox have plenty of catchers and the Yankees need one.   LOL

     



    Salty for CC?

    LOL!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Do not make that bet if money is involved. I've given my opinion many times on Salty's handling of pitchers. So has Moon. So has Danny Cater. So has Southpaw. You have some catching up to do.
    Posted by expitch



    Im going to chime in one final time on this topic...I started to comment here because what I was seeing was what danny, ex, and Moon were, which was a catcher improving...IMPROVING...I never said, nor do I believe ex, moon or danny have said, that Salty was the catcher of the future...He was improving, simple as that and we made very valid arguments.
    Personally, I think he hit a wall. First full season back there. people can say hes been in the league for 4 years, but thats not looking at the full picture and Im not going to explain it to anyone again because im tired of doing so. maybe cause it doesnt involve numbers, I dont know. I know what certain stats say and I know what my eyes see...There is truth to both, but for a good 2-3 month period salty was really looking good no matter what older stats said...As of late the K rate has gone through the roof and he looked like he was tired. Thats why I think Lav was brought up.
    Ive held the position that if you can improve the team by trading a player than everyone is tradable, including Salty. Lav has shown absolutely NO OFFENSE since coming up. Thats not to say he wont because I believe he will. Its just funny how everyone wanted this kid playing a while ago because of his offense which is nowhere to be found...Yet.
    Bottom line for me is I would be fine with a Salty/Lavarnway combo. Over the long term Shoppach will kill this lineup offensively IMO, and i dont think his defense or game calling is so much of a difference that it will hurt them if he goes.
    I would also be fine with them trading Salty if they get a solid return that will improve this team. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens this offseason, or maybe even sooner than that...



    Like your perception and thoughts. This says it all . Don't know this thread is so long.

     

     




    I had said that one of the biggest issues we needed to discover in 2012 was Salty's durability. I was a bit upset when they ended the experiment by playing Lava so much at the end. Now, it's hard to tell if Salty just had a slump, or if he really just ran out of gas. The sample size became to small at the end, so the data is tainted. 

    I did do a study of how well Salty hit after a day off. I can't recall the excat n umbers, but he did much better after rest.

    Most catchers need rest, and Salty was about in the middle of the pack for innings caught. I'm not going to argue with anyone saying he lacks stamina, because there is no evidence to counter that point.

    Since Salty has such stark splits vs RHPs and LHPs, I'm happy with handing him the starting job vs RHPs only and resting him 50-55 games vs LH'd starters. The problem with this plan is that Salty is only under team control for 2013. If we don't extend him, we will likely lose him. If he does great, his price goes up. If he does poorly, we won't want him anyways. I won't get into the "we have no serious chance this year" argument here, but I think trading him this winter is the best idea for our future. We can alsways sign him as a FA next winter if he does well elsewhere.




    You could see the improvement when they sat Lav and played Salty. He seemed more patient at the plate and wasnt dragging his heels. I think since the Sox knew they were out of it they played Lav more than they would have.

    Salty/Ross combo will be one of the better catching tandums in MLB IMO. Ross can play 60-70 games. maybe a little less. If they sign Naps, I imagine he will get around 10-20 starts behind the plate if his hip allows it.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Do not make that bet if money is involved. I've given my opinion many times on Salty's handling of pitchers. So has Moon. So has Danny Cater. So has Southpaw. You have some catching up to do.
    Posted by expitch



    Im going to chime in one final time on this topic...I started to comment here because what I was seeing was what danny, ex, and Moon were, which was a catcher improving...IMPROVING...I never said, nor do I believe ex, moon or danny have said, that Salty was the catcher of the future...He was improving, simple as that and we made very valid arguments.
    Personally, I think he hit a wall. First full season back there. people can say hes been in the league for 4 years, but thats not looking at the full picture and Im not going to explain it to anyone again because im tired of doing so. maybe cause it doesnt involve numbers, I dont know. I know what certain stats say and I know what my eyes see...There is truth to both, but for a good 2-3 month period salty was really looking good no matter what older stats said...As of late the K rate has gone through the roof and he looked like he was tired. Thats why I think Lav was brought up.
    Ive held the position that if you can improve the team by trading a player than everyone is tradable, including Salty. Lav has shown absolutely NO OFFENSE since coming up. Thats not to say he wont because I believe he will. Its just funny how everyone wanted this kid playing a while ago because of his offense which is nowhere to be found...Yet.
    Bottom line for me is I would be fine with a Salty/Lavarnway combo. Over the long term Shoppach will kill this lineup offensively IMO, and i dont think his defense or game calling is so much of a difference that it will hurt them if he goes.
    I would also be fine with them trading Salty if they get a solid return that will improve this team. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens this offseason, or maybe even sooner than that...



    Like your perception and thoughts. This says it all . Don't know this thread is so long.

     

     




    I had said that one of the biggest issues we needed to discover in 2012 was Salty's durability. I was a bit upset when they ended the experiment by playing Lava so much at the end. Now, it's hard to tell if Salty just had a slump, or if he really just ran out of gas. The sample size became to small at the end, so the data is tainted. 

    I did do a study of how well Salty hit after a day off. I can't recall the excat n umbers, but he did much better after rest.

    Most catchers need rest, and Salty was about in the middle of the pack for innings caught. I'm not going to argue with anyone saying he lacks stamina, because there is no evidence to counter that point.

    Since Salty has such stark splits vs RHPs and LHPs, I'm happy with handing him the starting job vs RHPs only and resting him 50-55 games vs LH'd starters. The problem with this plan is that Salty is only under team control for 2013. If we don't extend him, we will likely lose him. If he does great, his price goes up. If he does poorly, we won't want him anyways. I won't get into the "we have no serious chance this year" argument here, but I think trading him this winter is the best idea for our future. We can alsways sign him as a FA next winter if he does well elsewhere.




    You could see the improvement when they sat Lav and played Salty. He seemed more patient at the plate and wasnt dragging his heels. I think since the Sox knew they were out of it they played Lav more than they would have.

    Salty/Ross combo will be one of the better catching tandums in MLB IMO. Ross can play 60-70 games. maybe a little less. If they sign Naps, I imagine he will get around 10-20 starts behind the plate if his hip allows it.




    My hope is that Salty's endurance has improved enough for him to play vs all RH'd starters without fatigue. Since Ross hits lefties a little better than righties, the straight platoon is probably the plan. Naps was probably only going to catch when we were at NL parks as Papi would move from DH to 1B.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Do not make that bet if money is involved. I've given my opinion many times on Salty's handling of pitchers. So has Moon. So has Danny Cater. So has Southpaw. You have some catching up to do.
    Posted by expitch



    Im going to chime in one final time on this topic...I started to comment here because what I was seeing was what danny, ex, and Moon were, which was a catcher improving...IMPROVING...I never said, nor do I believe ex, moon or danny have said, that Salty was the catcher of the future...He was improving, simple as that and we made very valid arguments.
    Personally, I think he hit a wall. First full season back there. people can say hes been in the league for 4 years, but thats not looking at the full picture and Im not going to explain it to anyone again because im tired of doing so. maybe cause it doesnt involve numbers, I dont know. I know what certain stats say and I know what my eyes see...There is truth to both, but for a good 2-3 month period salty was really looking good no matter what older stats said...As of late the K rate has gone through the roof and he looked like he was tired. Thats why I think Lav was brought up.
    Ive held the position that if you can improve the team by trading a player than everyone is tradable, including Salty. Lav has shown absolutely NO OFFENSE since coming up. Thats not to say he wont because I believe he will. Its just funny how everyone wanted this kid playing a while ago because of his offense which is nowhere to be found...Yet.
    Bottom line for me is I would be fine with a Salty/Lavarnway combo. Over the long term Shoppach will kill this lineup offensively IMO, and i dont think his defense or game calling is so much of a difference that it will hurt them if he goes.
    I would also be fine with them trading Salty if they get a solid return that will improve this team. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens this offseason, or maybe even sooner than that...



    Like your perception and thoughts. This says it all . Don't know this thread is so long.

     

     




    I had said that one of the biggest issues we needed to discover in 2012 was Salty's durability. I was a bit upset when they ended the experiment by playing Lava so much at the end. Now, it's hard to tell if Salty just had a slump, or if he really just ran out of gas. The sample size became to small at the end, so the data is tainted. 

    I did do a study of how well Salty hit after a day off. I can't recall the excat n umbers, but he did much better after rest.

    Most catchers need rest, and Salty was about in the middle of the pack for innings caught. I'm not going to argue with anyone saying he lacks stamina, because there is no evidence to counter that point.

    Since Salty has such stark splits vs RHPs and LHPs, I'm happy with handing him the starting job vs RHPs only and resting him 50-55 games vs LH'd starters. The problem with this plan is that Salty is only under team control for 2013. If we don't extend him, we will likely lose him. If he does great, his price goes up. If he does poorly, we won't want him anyways. I won't get into the "we have no serious chance this year" argument here, but I think trading him this winter is the best idea for our future. We can alsways sign him as a FA next winter if he does well elsewhere.




    You could see the improvement when they sat Lav and played Salty. He seemed more patient at the plate and wasnt dragging his heels. I think since the Sox knew they were out of it they played Lav more than they would have.

    Salty/Ross combo will be one of the better catching tandums in MLB IMO. Ross can play 60-70 games. maybe a little less. If they sign Naps, I imagine he will get around 10-20 starts behind the plate if his hip allows it.




    My hope is that Salty's endurance has improved enough for him to play vs all RH'd starters without fatigue. Since Ross hits lefties a little better than righties, the straight platoon is probably the plan. Naps was probably only going to catch when we were at NL parks as Papi would move from DH to 1B.




    I wish they would figure out this whole napoli situation. They cant drag this on too much longer. Hopefully by this weekend...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Do not make that bet if money is involved. I've given my opinion many times on Salty's handling of pitchers. So has Moon. So has Danny Cater. So has Southpaw. You have some catching up to do.
    Posted by expitch



    Im going to chime in one final time on this topic...I started to comment here because what I was seeing was what danny, ex, and Moon were, which was a catcher improving...IMPROVING...I never said, nor do I believe ex, moon or danny have said, that Salty was the catcher of the future...He was improving, simple as that and we made very valid arguments.
    Personally, I think he hit a wall. First full season back there. people can say hes been in the league for 4 years, but thats not looking at the full picture and Im not going to explain it to anyone again because im tired of doing so. maybe cause it doesnt involve numbers, I dont know. I know what certain stats say and I know what my eyes see...There is truth to both, but for a good 2-3 month period salty was really looking good no matter what older stats said...As of late the K rate has gone through the roof and he looked like he was tired. Thats why I think Lav was brought up.
    Ive held the position that if you can improve the team by trading a player than everyone is tradable, including Salty. Lav has shown absolutely NO OFFENSE since coming up. Thats not to say he wont because I believe he will. Its just funny how everyone wanted this kid playing a while ago because of his offense which is nowhere to be found...Yet.
    Bottom line for me is I would be fine with a Salty/Lavarnway combo. Over the long term Shoppach will kill this lineup offensively IMO, and i dont think his defense or game calling is so much of a difference that it will hurt them if he goes.
    I would also be fine with them trading Salty if they get a solid return that will improve this team. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens this offseason, or maybe even sooner than that...



    Like your perception and thoughts. This says it all . Don't know this thread is so long.

     

     




    I had said that one of the biggest issues we needed to discover in 2012 was Salty's durability. I was a bit upset when they ended the experiment by playing Lava so much at the end. Now, it's hard to tell if Salty just had a slump, or if he really just ran out of gas. The sample size became to small at the end, so the data is tainted. 

    I did do a study of how well Salty hit after a day off. I can't recall the excat n umbers, but he did much better after rest.

    Most catchers need rest, and Salty was about in the middle of the pack for innings caught. I'm not going to argue with anyone saying he lacks stamina, because there is no evidence to counter that point.

    Since Salty has such stark splits vs RHPs and LHPs, I'm happy with handing him the starting job vs RHPs only and resting him 50-55 games vs LH'd starters. The problem with this plan is that Salty is only under team control for 2013. If we don't extend him, we will likely lose him. If he does great, his price goes up. If he does poorly, we won't want him anyways. I won't get into the "we have no serious chance this year" argument here, but I think trading him this winter is the best idea for our future. We can alsways sign him as a FA next winter if he does well elsewhere.




    You could see the improvement when they sat Lav and played Salty. He seemed more patient at the plate and wasnt dragging his heels. I think since the Sox knew they were out of it they played Lav more than they would have.

    Salty/Ross combo will be one of the better catching tandums in MLB IMO. Ross can play 60-70 games. maybe a little less. If they sign Naps, I imagine he will get around 10-20 starts behind the plate if his hip allows it.




    My hope is that Salty's endurance has improved enough for him to play vs all RH'd starters without fatigue. Since Ross hits lefties a little better than righties, the straight platoon is probably the plan. Naps was probably only going to catch when we were at NL parks as Papi would move from DH to 1B.




    I wish they would figure out this whole napoli situation. They cant drag this on too much longer. Hopefully by this weekend...




    It may be the reason Salty hasn't been dealt yet.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Are we keeping Salty around to play 1B if Naps doesn't sign on the dotted line?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    1) NWIH Lavarnway ever plays significantly if he is not a catcher going forward. Maybe a DH. Never an OF. Never a 1st baseman.

    2) Go to any other Redsox forum and you will not see many fans of Saltalamachia. It's funny how forums take different positions. Someone touts a player. Several others follow the lead or feel the same way for their own reasons in some instances. The same thing happens on other forums. Overall, Salty is not highly regarded beyond his HR streak period of last year. Defensively he cost his team runs last year. His arb signing probably costs us around $6 to $7 mil. Possibly he becomes a type A FA but what are the chances he earns a qualifying offer? I think that is very unlikely.

    3) I think they signed Ross as a great value. Tremendous insurance.  Our starting catcher, ( Salty presumably ) has shown a propensity for 2nd half fading as so many other catchers have historically. Ross basically gives them league average catcher performance from their back up guy, who can step in and start if necessary due to injury at least for a while. Ross is better defensively and is solid all around offensively. If he were LH he would start most games IMO. Lavarnway gives them cheap catcher depth to be parked in AAA with a guy who may still evolve as an all star level catcher at some point. His minor league hitting performance certainly points to that potential. I still think LAvarnway will end up to be better than Salty long term. All these moves make sense to me. But if we can get a solid trade going for Salty I'm open to it.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    1) NWIH Lavarnway ever plays significantly if he is not a catcher going forward. Maybe a DH. Never an OF. Never a 1st baseman.

    2) Go to any other Redsox forum and you will not see many fans of Saltalamachia. It's funny how forums take different positions. Someone touts a player. Several others follow the lead or feel the same way for their own reasons in some instances. The same thing happens on other forums. Overall, Salty is not highly regarded beyond his HR streak period of last year. Defensively he cost his team runs last year. His arb signing probably costs us around $6 to $7 mil. Possibly he becomes a type A FA but what are the chances he earns a qualifying offer? I think that is very unlikely.

    3) I think they signed Ross as a great value. Tremendous insurance.  Our starting catcher, ( Salty presumably ) has shown a propensity for 2nd half fading as so many other catchers have historically. Ross basically gives them league average catcher performance from their back up guy, who can step in and start if necessary due to injury at least for a while. Ross is better defensively and is solid all around offensively. If he were LH he would start most games IMO. Lavarnway gives them cheap catcher depth to be parked in AAA with a guy who may still evolve as an all star level catcher at some point. His minor league hitting performance certainly points to that potential. I still think LAvarnway will end up to be better than Salty long term. All these moves make sense to me. But if we can get a solid trade going for Salty I'm open to it.



    I seriously doubt Salty will become a "type A" FA even if he has a big 2013, but look at Berkman getting $10M.

    Right now, I'd rate Salty as a 10-16th ranked MLB catcher, but I really think our debate was mostly about how much, if any, he improved on defense after April of 2012.

    I have to think some team out there with a horrible catcher will be on the phone with Ben.

     
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