Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Unless they are without a doubt out of contention, salty is probably going nowhere. And he shouldnt be if they are in it. To disprupt the pitcher/catcher dynamic regardless how you feel about him is not the position to tinker with unless youve packed it in.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Unless they are without a doubt out of contention, salty is probably going nowhere. And he should be if they are in it. To dispryup the pitcher/catcher dynamic regardless how you feel about him is not the position to tinker with unless youve packed it in.



    Some might say that most pitchers do better with Ross, so where's the disruption?

    I'm just feeling antsy that we are losing long term help by holding onto players that will bring us nothing in return after they walk. (Or less in return, like the probable but not certain anymore draft pick for Ellsbury and not better returns.)

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    I imagine the brass is getting tired of Salty's strike outs. I can't remember anyone this bad who kept his job this long. It's like having a pitcher in the lineup. Time to hand the job over to Lavanway. Nothing to lose at this point.


    I think you meant to say "time to trade Salty for Bench".

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Unless they are without a doubt out of contention, salty is probably going nowhere. And he should be if they are in it. To dispryup the pitcher/catcher dynamic regardless how you feel about him is not the position to tinker with unless youve packed it in.

     



    Some might say that most pitchers do better with Ross, so where's the disruption?

     

    I'm just feeling antsy that we are losing long term help by holding onto players that will bring us nothing in return after they walk. (Or less in return, like the probable but not certain anymore draft pick for Ellsbury and not better returns.)

     




    Ross isnt going to be able to handle the full time role. He hasnt done it in years. Just my opinion. I would feel better with Vasquez starting if they did trade salty.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Unless they are without a doubt out of contention, salty is probably going nowhere. And he should be if they are in it. To dispryup the pitcher/catcher dynamic regardless how you feel about him is not the position to tinker with unless youve packed it in.

     



    Some might say that most pitchers do better with Ross, so where's the disruption?

     

    I'm just feeling antsy that we are losing long term help by holding onto players that will bring us nothing in return after they walk. (Or less in return, like the probable but not certain anymore draft pick for Ellsbury and not better returns.)

     




    Ross isnt going to be able to handle the full time role. He hasnt done it in years. Just my opinion. I would feel better with Vasquez starting if they did trade salty.

     



    Although Ross is old for a catcher, he doesn't have a lot of mileage on his legs.

    I agree on Vasquez over Lava.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Here's an updated rundown of opponent's OPS vs each of our pitchers with Ross or Salty:

     

    Salty  (PA)  OPS            Ross

    Doub  (202)  .820     Lester  (111) .756

    Lest   (188)  .555      Buch    (110) .489

    Buch  (171)  .581      Demp   (88)  .713

    Demp (126) .707       Lack    (48)   .715

    Lackey (94) .212       Taz      (28)  .747

    Aceves (77) .636      Ueha   (28)   .759

    Morten (76)  .699      Doub   (23)   .570

    Tazawa (57) .696      Mort    (22)   .687

    Wilson   (56)  .801     Bailey (16)  .125

    Uehara  (50)  .580     Aceves (14) .813

    Miller     (47)  .475     Wilson   (15)  .718

    Bailey    (39)  .711    Miller      (15)  .800

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I'm starting to think Salty is arriving as a pretty good catcher.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    I'm starting to think Salty is arriving as a pretty good catcher.



    It took VTek until age 30-32 to become a complete catcher.

    Salty's now got his OBP to .340.

    It seems like he works on his weak point and improves it, but other areas suffer. Maybe soon, he will put it all together.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    This is the best time to trade Salty, while he's hitting and getting on base.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Tough decision for sure. There are many GM's who keep an eye on Minor Leaguers and see how players are developing. Lavarnway has improved every year. It comes down to money and talent evaluators. When a Triple AAA Catcher is hitting .318, could be a useful chip at Trade  Deadline.
    Real, real, tough decision for Ben. He's got a couple of Months to make a decision. If no plans on extending Salty, have to start thinking about moving him. Also depends how team and injuries play out.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    This is the best time to trade Salty, while he's hitting and getting on base.

     

    Sure, let's trade everybody who's playing good!

    Some of this armchair GM stuff is hilarious. 

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    My position has been that if we do not plan to extend Salty, we should trade him while his value is high.

    I wouldn't give him away. I'd only trade him, if I liked what we got back better than 4 months of having Salty.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    My position has been that if we do not plan to extend Salty, we should trade him while his value is high.

    I wouldn't give him away. I'd only trade him, if I liked what we got back better than 4 months of having Salty.



    They're not going to trade him now, and they're only going to trade him at the deadline if we're out of it.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Unless they are without a doubt out of contention, salty is probably going nowhere. And he should be if they are in it. To dispryup the pitcher/catcher dynamic regardless how you feel about him is not the position to tinker with unless youve packed it in.

     



    Some might say that most pitchers do better with Ross, so where's the disruption?

     

    I'm just feeling antsy that we are losing long term help by holding onto players that will bring us nothing in return after they walk. (Or less in return, like the probable but not certain anymore draft pick for Ellsbury and not better returns.)

     




    I dont say that. Some have other opinions than me.

     

    I dont think that Ross will perform as good as he can playing full time. I also dont think lavarnway is as good as Salty right now. Salty isnt going to bring a huge return anyway and I think his value to this team this year is greater than the return we would get. IMO, It most certainly would disrupt things. The catching position is doing good the way it is, why mess with it.

    If were out of it then fine. Not sure what your getting antsy about. They are in a good position, now and for the future. You cant just get rid of someone just so you can get something. Thats not always the better decision.

    I think Lavarnway would be a better piece to trade and would bring back much more. With vasquez in the fold, lavarnway is nothing but a BU catcher/DH. I say trade the piece that will bring you a better return.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I dont think that Ross will perform as good as he can playing full time. I also dont think lavarnway is as good as Salty right now. Salty isnt going to bring a huge return anyway and I think his value to this team this year is greater than the return we would get. IMO, It most certainly would disrupt things. The catching position is doing good the way it is, why mess with it.

    I wouldn't mess with it, unless I thought the gain we make elsewhere outweighs the loss here. Here are some factors to consider:

    1) We will get nothing if Salty walks after this year.

    2) Salty has a history of slumping badly after July.

    3) Ross actually hits slightly better vs RHPs than LHPs over the last 3-4 years combined.

    4) I do not consider a player who starts only vs RHPs a full-timer. I'd try and play Ross in most of the games vs RHPs and none vs LHPs: maybe 60% of the games after July 31st. That should not overtax him. It's not like his body is as bad as many catchers his age who played much more often.

    5) Being on the big club may help Lava learn more about ML hitetrs, our staff as well as boost his confidence.

    6) I happen to think Salty, especially if packaged with other players would net us a very nice return. I also think a packaged deal would solve some rule 5 issues we may have this winter (not really related to salty).

     

    If were out of it then fine. Not sure what your getting antsy about. They are in a good position, now and for the future. You cant just get rid of someone just so you can get something. Thats not always the better decision.

    I know this is just speaking in theory at this point in the year, but what I had in mind was that we could get a player that is under team control for more than 2013 in retrun for Salty. Even if the player is not as good, if the player is at a position of high need, the extra year(s) can outweigh what Salty gives us for 2 months- in it or not.

     

    I think Lavarnway would be a better piece to trade and would bring back much more. With vasquez in the fold, lavarnway is nothing but a BU catcher/DH. I say trade the piece that will bring you a better return.

    If we are trading to win a ring in 2013, I'd agree, but I see us looking more to 2014 and beyond, so trading our future DH is not what I have in mind, but Ben may see things differently.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    My position has been that if we do not plan to extend Salty, we should trade him while his value is high.

    I wouldn't give him away. I'd only trade him, if I liked what we got back better than 4 months of having Salty.

     



    They're not going to trade him now, and they're only going to trade him at the deadline if we're out of it.

     

     



    Exactly That's want any team would do in our current position.  

     

    Not too complicated.



    Many teams have traded talent away while still in the race.

    Some do it coupled with other moves that fill higher needs in other areas.

    A lot probably depends on our chances at the deadline, but it may also depend on how Ben feels about Lava and Ross as a 2 month tandem.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I seem to remember that we once traded a guy with a lifetime .324 average at the July deadline and that worked out pretty well. His name was Garciaparra.

    You trade anyone if it makes your team better either now or in the future. I agree that we probably don't trade a catcher right now, but I definitely wish they would. And I wish they would clear the deck for JBJ also. The kid is putting up consistently great numbers in the minors and is a stud defensvely. He's a winner. I want him on our team and I really think Lavarnway has made the adjustments needed to succeed in mlb now also.

    Sometimes it's better to take on some risk if you want to go all the way. Sometimes it is more risky to stand pat.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    We have a ton of talent down on the farm. We should be looking to trade some of that for a stud starting pitcher. And I'd prefer to have some of it be a partial salary dump deal for a Cliff Lee type in exchange for some of our excess young talent. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbs2007. Show tbs2007's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    What are you people smoking? The Red Sox are in first place, with what I hear on this board, the worst team ever. SO LET'S JUST TRADE EVERYONE!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I could be wrong, but I don't think you're going to find too many examples of a team with playoff hopes trading away their #1 catcher during the season.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to tbs2007's comment:

    What are you people smoking? The Red Sox are in first place, with what I hear on this board, the worst team ever. SO LET'S JUST TRADE EVERYONE!



    The year we broke the curse we traded a legend.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    I could be wrong, but I don't think you're going to find too many examples of a team with playoff hopes trading away their #1 catcher during the season.


    I see it less about how the team is doing and more about how he is doing.

    Salty sucks at throwing out runners, and Ks at an alarming rate. I'm sick to death of watching him throw the ball into the outfield, and I don't for a second believe that he's some wonderkind at handling pitchers.

    But he might be a step up for some teams, and would represent a better allocation of resources if we had him off the payroll.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to tbs2007's comment:

     

    What are you people smoking? The Red Sox are in first place, with what I hear on this board, the worst team ever. SO LET'S JUST TRADE EVERYONE!

     



    The year we broke the curse we traded a legend.

     



    Yes, but a malcontented one who was playing poorly and dropping hints that he might not be able to play much because of a mystery injury. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to lasitter's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    I could be wrong, but I don't think you're going to find too many examples of a team with playoff hopes trading away their #1 catcher during the season.

     


    I see it less about how the team is doing and more about how he is doing.

     

    Salty sucks at throwing out runners, and Ks at an alarming rate. I'm sick to death of watching him throw the ball into the outfield, and I don't for a second believe that he's some wonderkind at handling pitchers.

    But he might be a step up for some teams, and would represent a better allocation of resources if we had him off the payroll.



    Salty also has a history of slumping badly the last 2 months.

     

    The Rays traded Kazmir in a race.

    The White Sox made a trade once while in a race, but I can't recall who it was.

    I'm sure there are more, but it's not common to trade for prospects while in a race. Trading for other ML pieces is more common.

     
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