Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty


    .270 avg.   .833 OPS    8 HR's  &  Now....  25 RBI's

     

    He's heating up folks!  :)

     

     

    Nice call Dog!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    People laughed when I said we should extend him before his price tag gets too high.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    People lau

    Sox4everghed when I said we should extend him before his price tag gets too high.




     

    I haven't followed this thread in quite some time, but I would have agreed whole-heartedly.  Even in April or May.

    His high OPS & Pop are way under-rated.

    I raked Salty's ability to call a game over the last 2 seasons, but it certainly seems that the problems with pitcher were far more complex.

    They should extend him SOON!!!!!!  We will regret not doing so!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    People lau

    Sox4everghed when I said we should extend him before his price tag gets too high.

     




     

     

    I haven't followed this thread in quite some time, but I would have agreed whole-heartedly.  Even in April or May.

    His high OPS & Pop are way under-rated.

    I raked Salty's ability to call a game over the last 2 seasons, but it certainly seems that the problems with pitcher were far more complex.

    They should extend him SOON!!!!!!  We will regret not doing so!

    [/QUOTE]

    I documented how Salty began turning around his performance with the staff after April 21, 2012. The staff's ERA was about a half run lower after that date, but most fans just looked at the yearly overall CERA and shrugged.

    Salty still has some weaknesses, but there are so many parts to a catcher's total package that not many do great at most of them. Salty has improved at some, while others got worse. Then he has done better in the areas he was weak in, but got worse in the areas he had just improved in. It's been a bit frustrating as we wait to see if he can pull it all together for a long stretch, but he is still younger than VTek was when he became an all around quality catcher.

    Salty is now at a .341 OBP and .515 SLG%. The .856 OPS is the highest starting catcher OPS we've had in a long time.

    2012: Salty  .742/Shoppach .798

    2011: Salty  .737/VTek .723

    2010: VMart .844/ VTek .766

    2009: VTek .703/ VMart .912 (in 237 PAs after the trade)

    2008: VTek .672/.Cash .647

    2007: VTek .787/ Mirrabelli .637

    2006: VTek .725/ Mirabelli .603

    2005: VTek .856/ Mirabelli .721

    2004: VTek .872/ Mirabelli .893

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    We currently have three catchers who have played ML baseball and quite possibly <ahem> "the next Carlton Fisk" [smirk] residing in Portland in Vasquez.  That makes four, and most teams carry only two.  That makes two of the first three expendable. 

    I'd be hesitant to let go of Salty right now since I'm a beleiver in CERA and think there's a certain comfort level between pitchers and catchers that I wouldn't want to disrupt while this team is in contention.  I also wouldn't trade this team's "insurance policy" from Pawtucket while the team is in contention.  This is a guy who can fill in adequately if Catcher #1 or Catcher #2 gets hurt. 

    Let's sit tight and see what things look like come the trade deadline. 

    If the Sox are out of it, package either Ross or Salty - the one who'll get us the best return - immediately.  That leaves three, two in Boston to finish out the year and Vasquez probably in Pawtucket.  Then commit to Salty/Ross and use either Lava or Vasquez as the ML backup and store the other one with the PawSox. 

    If the Sox are in it at the deadline hold onto all four of them and do what you have to do in the off season, whether it's re-signing Salty somehow or letting him go.  Losing Salty may be the price we have to pay for being in contention this year.  If so, I can live with that. 

    No matter how you slice it, at least one of those guys has to go and the other three should be fighing it out for a ML role next March in Ft. Myers.   

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Even though Ross is under team control through 2014, I think Salty would net a better return in trade; however, if we can extend Salty, I could see us trading Lavarnway before Ross, since he may net a better return. I think Vazquez might have passed Lava on the charts. Hard to know how Ben sizes things up.

    Sox4ever

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Salty showcased his power again last night against the Angels with a pair of homers. If he could keep up the batting performance a little longer I think BC would be able to package him in a deadline deal that would help us with something going down the stretch.

    If we could dump some salary, and some team like the Phils could eat some pitching salary, I'd love to have a Cliff Lee quality pitcher for an effective $12-16 mil per year. I feel good about how Lackey is improving, but Dempster keeps leaving pitches up and Dubront still does not instill that much confidence.

    If you could reduce your cost with trades and attrition I wouldn't mind paying something for a shot at another ring.

    I just wouldn't want to pay a full $25+ million for an aging arm going forward several years.

    I'm sure BC is in constant contact sniffing out multi-way deals that we have a hard time even dreaming of because we have no way of knowing what other GMs are saying back to him.

    It will all become clearer as the trade deadline approaches ...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I feel sorry for the dude that started this thread.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Context is everything here folks. Imagine if the Sox' catching was suspect right now. We'd be thinking about adding a veteran catcher with some pop for the stretch run, even a guy who might be a FA at the end of the season. In other words, we would be looking for a guy, just like Salty.   We already have the answer to our catching needs. Why would we trade away the solution?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    Context is everything here folks. Imagine if the Sox' catching was suspect right now. We'd be thinking about adding a veteran catcher with some pop for the stretch run, even a guy who might be a FA at the end of the season. In other words, we would be looking for a guy, just like Salty.   We already have the answer to our catching needs. Why would we trade away the solution?



    They wouldnt, so those who think they should, should probably forget the idea altogether. Unless they are out of it, Salty is here for the year.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to lasitter's comment:

    Salty showcased his power again last night against the Angels with a pair of homers. If he could keep up the batting performance a little longer I think BC would be able to package him in a deadline deal that would help us with something going down the stretch.

    If we could dump some salary, and some team like the Phils could eat some pitching salary, I'd love to have a Cliff Lee quality pitcher for an effective $12-16 mil per year. I feel good about how Lackey is improving, but Dempster keeps leaving pitches up and Dubront still does not instill that much confidence.

    If you could reduce your cost with trades and attrition I wouldn't mind paying something for a shot at another ring.

    I just wouldn't want to pay a full $25+ million for an aging arm going forward several years.

    I'm sure BC is in constant contact sniffing out multi-way deals that we have a hard time even dreaming of because we have no way of knowing what other GMs are saying back to him.

    It will all become clearer as the trade deadline approaches ...



    While Cliff Lee could help us this year, I don't see us getting much older by picking him up. Sure, if Philly pays a big chunk of his contract, I'd be open to trading for him, but there'd have to be a 3rd team involved, since Philly is not looking to get a catcher or rentals like Ellsbury or Drew.

    I'd try and get Gallardo or some other younger pitcher with more than 2 months of team control.

    Salty's stock is pretty high right now, and his history of late season slumps do kind of point to a choice of extend or trade to maximize value for the club, but I doubt Ben deals Salty, Ells or Drew. Trading top prospects for a rental is not my idea of good baseball, unless he deals only players that may not make the 40 man roster next year and who will be rule 5 candidates or DFA types this winter, but then again, how much return value will 3 of those types get us?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    As I said.....

    A dash of Salt :)

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Where's the guy who said Salty never gets hits when they count?

    Sox4ever

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    That might be me!  I've said that.  Thrilled he hit in the clutch tonight!  Still, trade him now while his stock his high.  :)

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    That might be me!  I've said that.  Thrilled he hit in the clutch tonight!  Still, trade him now while his stock his high.  :)



    You and others.

    He's had some big hits recently.

    He slumps late seasons very often.

    Trading him makes some sense, but I'd rather have extended him.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    That might be me!  I've said that.  Thrilled he hit in the clutch tonight!  Still, trade him now while his stock his high.  :)

     



    You and others.

     

    He's had some big hits recently.

    He slumps late seasons very often.

    Trading him makes some sense, but I'd rather have extended him.

    [/QUOTE]


    Considering what's out there, I think it makes a lot of sense to extend him now.  I think he makes a team friendly deal???  He seems like that kind of guy.  Extend him 2 years, and I think we get a bargain.

    His offense is a huge plus to this team!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Trading him makes some sense, but I'd rather have extended him.

    So what's your guess at what it would cost to extend him?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Look at WMB now andtone look at Salty.  WMB is way better defensively at third than Salty is at C with more offense upside..........this is whPaton show talented players patience.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Salty will get 4 years, and I would say around 8M per. 28yr old average/improving defensive catcher with 25+ HR potential. His BA and OBP have gone up considerably and pitchers talk highly about working with him. LOTS of teams would like to have that behind the plate.

    It doesnt matter what some armchair GM's think here. Its what other player/pitchers and coaches say about him. Most of it is very good. Id say his one weakness is throwing guys out on steals. But then again, hes only 1% worse than Brian McCann in that department over their careers.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Salty will get 4 years, and I would say around 8M per. 28yr old average/improving defensive catcher with 25+ HR potential. His BA and OBP have gone up considerably and pitchers talk highly about working with him. LOTS of teams would like to have that behind the plate.

    It doesnt matter what some armchair GM's think here. Its what other player/pitchers and coaches say about him. Most of it is very good. Id say his one weakness is throwing guys out on steals. But then again, hes only 1% worse than Brian McCann in that department over their careers.




    I don't know South....I say we trade the bum and pick up some B level prospect.....maybe throw Ace, Drew and Carp while we're at it....  ;-)

    I have been a fan of Salty since last season....never understood why he was getting dumped on so much.  Very few catchers had better offensive numbers than him.  Sure his defense was not great but I think as a whole the catcher postition in regards to defense has been on the decline the last few years.  There are a ton of teams that would love to have Salty.  While I doubt we resign him with Vazquez in the wings.....I would not be upset at all if he came back to the team.  I'm simply not convinced that Lava is the answer.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to Kingface12's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Salty will get 4 years, and I would say around 8M per. 28yr old average/improving defensive catcher with 25+ HR potential. His BA and OBP have gone up considerably and pitchers talk highly about working with him. LOTS of teams would like to have that behind the plate.

    It doesnt matter what some armchair GM's think here. Its what other player/pitchers and coaches say about him. Most of it is very good. Id say his one weakness is throwing guys out on steals. But then again, hes only 1% worse than Brian McCann in that department over their careers.

     




    I don't know South....I say we trade the bum and pick up some B level prospect.....maybe throw Ace, Drew and Carp while we're at it....  ;-)

     

    I have been a fan of Salty since last season....never understood why he was getting dumped on so much.  Very few catchers had better offensive numbers than him.  Sure his defense was not great but I think as a whole the catcher postition in regards to defense has been on the decline the last few years.  There are a ton of teams that would love to have Salty.  While I doubt we resign him with Vazquez in the wings.....I would not be upset at all if he came back to the team.  I'm simply not convinced that Lava is the answer.

    [/QUOTE]


    Personally, I think Lavarnway is trade bait. Vasquez appears to be the next in line. Hes already better defensively and has shown improvements offensively this year. If they can get something for Lav, I think they do it.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    That might be me!  I've said that.  Thrilled he hit in the clutch tonight!  Still, trade him now while his stock his high.  :)

     

     



    You and others.

     

     

    He's had some big hits recently.

    He slumps late seasons very often.

    Trading him makes some sense, but I'd rather have extended him.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Considering what's out there, I think it makes a lot of sense to extend him now.  I think he makes a team friendly deal???  He seems like that kind of guy.  Extend him 2 years, and I think we get a bargain.

    His offense is a huge plus to this team!

    [/QUOTE]

    His cost is certainly going to be more than it might have been had we extended him last winter as I suggested.

    I'd offer him $25M/3 with incentives based on PAs or innings caught. It might take more than that.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Salty will get 4 years, and I would say around 8M per. 28yr old average/improving defensive catcher with 25+ HR potential. His BA and OBP have gone up considerably and pitchers talk highly about working with him. LOTS of teams would like to have that behind the plate.

    It doesnt matter what some armchair GM's think here. Its what other player/pitchers and coaches say about him. Most of it is very good. Id say his one weakness is throwing guys out on steals. But then again, hes only 1% worse than Brian McCann in that department over their careers.

     




    I don't know South....I say we trade the bum and pick up some B level prospect.....maybe throw Ace, Drew and Carp while we're at it....  ;-)

     

    I have been a fan of Salty since last season....never understood why he was getting dumped on so much.  Very few catchers had better offensive numbers than him.  Sure his defense was not great but I think as a whole the catcher postition in regards to defense has been on the decline the last few years.  There are a ton of teams that would love to have Salty.  While I doubt we resign him with Vazquez in the wings.....I would not be upset at all if he came back to the team.  I'm simply not convinced that Lava is the answer.

     

    Consider this: if we can sign Salty for about $25M/3 with incentives, maybe his trade value is worth more than as a 2 month rental.

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I'm getting sick of the trade Salty, get rid of Salty, bench Salty, bullshoy...the guy is a terrific power hitter and he does a more than adequate job behind the dish. In fact, the Sox ERA dropped one full run since last season in games caught by him (not that CERA means anything). Let's try to keep guys who get clutch hits, work hard, and give their body to the Sox to help them win. I want guys like Adrian Beltre.

     
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