Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    He's also hit some clutch HRs or HRs that put us into games (like last night).
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Salty's HRs are interesting in the demise of the Sox offense. It almost always seems like when he homers it's in games where the team has done virtually nothing until he homers, then you see the Sox lose a close one. He doesn't hit those AROD type homers when the game is out of reach. He's hit so many to get the Sox off the zero grade, or get the team close or even grab a lead back when he was at his hottest. For a guy with 21 HRs, it's as if all of them had meaning and that's hard to do. On AROD, that one year in Texas when he hit 50something, it was almost like he would knock one out of the park in the 8th or 9th consistently, but the Texas pitching staff was so terrible, it would occur when it was Opponent 11, Texas 3...or it seemed that way. Don't see Salty hitting HRs that didn't have some momentum switch (or should have been) tied to it. He doesn't hit what I call Oh-By-The-Way Homers.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Salty has 1 walk off HR, 9 tying HRs and 10 go ahead HRs.

    That's 20 out of 59 career significant HRS!

    In contrast, Papi has 10-37-142 in, or 187 out of 401 career HRs.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    And yesterday's HR was still to me a significant HR turning a potential blowout into a close game. That's why I don't take stock in just walk-offs, or 9th inning HRs--they are great, don't get me wrong--but it's hard to do. Hitting a HR off a closer is hard to do. Manny did it several times. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]that's it...that ball was crushed!!!!  he's got a powerful swing.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    So did Willy Mo Pena. His problem is the same as Salty's. Contact.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Wily Mo could drive it a country mile, but he was at best a DH, and he was a butcher in the OF. Salty is playing the hardest position in the sport as a mostly regular. Unfair comparison.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]Wily Mo could drive it a country mile, but he was at best a DH, and he was a butcher in the OF. Salty is playing the hardest position in the sport as a mostly regular. Unfair comparison.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I don't think its unfair to compare their offensive styles: HR or K. Little in between. I do not disagree that catchers are at a disadvantage due to the difficult position they play. I would still like a catcher better than Salty on my team.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    pumpsie, who? Seriously. Do the Sox need another .200 hitter with no power and no RBI---that's pretty much most AVALIABLE other catchers in MLB.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]pumpsie, who? Seriously. Do the Sox need another .200 hitter with no power and no RBI---that's pretty much most AVALIABLE other catchers in MLB.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Fair question. I am not sure who is really available via trade right now. Some clubs could have a good minor league catcher who is being blocked by another guy right now. I don't keep up with all the minor league catchers. However, Salty is #2 in K's among all catchers (27) with at least 100 ABs and is 17th in BA. He is also 8th in OPS, but I prefer a guy who can make contact. He is not very good defensively either, ranking 70th among all catchers (97) in fielding percentage. He is 64th in CS % throwing out only 19% of runners. There are no good measures of how good a game the catcher calls, despite what others say-there is just no objective evidence to measure this. Also, much of his good offensive stats came early this year. He has been in a long long slump. I think we can do better.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I ventured a thought that without Shoppach looking over his shoulder, he might feel less pressure--Salty. Since Shoppach's been gone, seems like Salty is doing better at the plate.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]I ventured a thought that without Shoppach looking over his shoulder, he might feel less pressure--Salty. Since Shoppach's been gone, seems like Salty is doing better at the plate.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Not sure what date Shoppach was dealt, but in the last 7 games he has played Salty has hit just .174 with an OPS of .382. Not sure what you mean by "better". He still stinks.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    last 2 games, 2-for-5, HR, 2 RBI, 2 BB....i'm cherry-picking. but so are you.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    .444 OBP last 2 games.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    The state of catcher offense this year and recent years is frightening. That's one reason I am so surprised that so many psoters are upset about one or two areas of Salty's offense, when most MLB catchers don't even have one plus to speak of on offense.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    kind of what I was driving at with pumpsie. It's as if 21 HR catches fall off trees. Guys who hit .229 fall of trees, not with 21 HR though. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]last 2 games, 2-for-5, HR, 2 RBI, 2 BB....i'm cherry-picking. but so are you.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Here is a larger sample size: since June 1 he has hit .190/.630. Horrible. We need a catcher who can play for more than two months and who is better defensively. He has had long enough to learn his trade and he has failed.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Here is a larger sample size: since June 1 he has hit .190/.630. Horrible. We need a catcher who can play for more than two months and who is better defensively. He has had long enough to learn his trade and he has failed.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    Even cherry-picking his worst stat and worst time period, if you put .630 into the context of today's catchers, you'll see that 8 of the top 32 catchers in MLB this year by PAs have an OPS below .630... that's for the whole year!

    8 MLB teams have a combined catcher OPS of under .636. There are 14 below .700 and 16 below .717. It's not pretty.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    The catcher with both exceptional offensive and defensive skills has always been a rare commodity in baseball, and still is.  Personally I find the constancy of things like this in baseball one of the things I like about the game.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Makes Salty's 21, 50 look a hell of a lot better. I can only see with my eyes what I believe is a catcher getting better with the pitchers and on defense. He does not look like a liability at all.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]Makes Salty's 21, 50 look a hell of a lot better. I can only see with my eyes what I believe is a catcher getting better with the pitchers and on defense. He does not look like a liability at all.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    The raw numbers back you up.

    His CERA since April 25th is 4.05.

    Even taking Wake out of the 2011 equation, Salty is stopping more bad pitches this year than last.

    The CS rate is still poor, and sadly that's all some look at.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]Makes Salty's 21, 50 look a hell of a lot better. I can only see with my eyes what I believe is a catcher getting better with the pitchers and on defense. He does not look like a liability at all.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    Pumpsie is pumped down by the wrong stats. Anyone who says flatly that Salty "stinks" cannot be taken seriously. And doesn't know how to watch the pitcher/catcher dynamic.
    Pumpsie wants a "blocked" catcher from another team's system. Hello. The Sox may try a catcher from their own system. No good? Ok, let's plug in an untested minor leaguer. 
    Salty is doing well with the staff and with errant pitches. He has 21 dingers. Pumpsie wants a guy who makes contact -- and gets his average all the way up to .220 -- with, what, 4 dingers.
    You're right in another post about people who abuse Salty.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    yeah, he's a punching bag for posters who dwell on free-swinging hitters in general. Guys who strike out a lot, hit homers and don't make a lot of contact have been around for years and years including Rob Deer, Dave Kingman. Salty plays the hardest position in the sport, and if you want to take anything from the pitching coach being fired, it's that the pitchers themselves have been underachieving or not performing to a strong level. Blaming it on Salty is just an excuse. If he warranted the abuse, I'd need to see a pitcher show him up, or that a pitcher only wants to throw to a certain catcher....those are signs of a pitcher not having any confidence in a catcher. Salty seems to have the staff's backing and most of the relievers have done just fine with him behind the dish, even Mortensen.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]yeah, he's a punching bag for posters who dwell on free-swinging hitters in general. Guys who strike out a lot, hit homers and don't make a lot of contact have been around for years and years including Rob Deer, Dave Kingman. Salty plays the hardest position in the sport, and if you want to take anything from the pitching coach being fired, it's that the pitchers themselves have been underachieving or not performing to a strong level. Blaming it on Salty is just an excuse. If he warranted the abuse, I'd need to see a pitcher show him up, or that a pitcher only wants to throw to a certain catcher....those are signs of a pitcher not having any confidence in a catcher. Salty seems to have the staff's backing and most of the relievers have done just fine with him behind the dish, even Mortensen.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    To the point.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Even cherry-picking his worst stat and worst time period, if you put .630 into the context of today's catchers, you'll see that 8 of the top 32 catchers in MLB this year by PAs have an OPS below .630... that's for the whole year!

    Basically 8 MLB catchers have hit from day one like Salty has since June 1st.

    8 MLB teams have a combined catcher OPS of under .636. 
    There are 14 below .700 and 16 below .717. 

    Context is needed. Nearly half the MLB catchers have an OPS below .700. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Pumpsie is pumped down by the wrong stats. Anyone who says flatly that Salty "stinks" cannot be taken seriously. And doesn't know how to watch the pitcher/catcher dynamic. Pumpsie wants a "blocked" catcher from another team's system. Hello. The Sox may try a catcher from their own system. No good? Ok, let's plug in an untested minor leaguer.  Salty is doing well with the staff and with errant pitches. He has 21 dingers. Pumpsie wants a guy who makes contact -- and gets his average all the way up to .220 -- with, what, 4 dingers. You're right in another post about people who abuse Salty.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    I am going to repost the sad truth about Salty. Both offensively and defensively he is very mediocre. I do not settle for mediocre, but apparently thats fine with you. You posted your opinion about Salty but posted not a single statistic. That makes your opinion less valid that opinions that at least make an attempt to justify their position objectively, like Moon (though I don't agree that that over 212 plate appearances he had since June 1 where he batted under .200 with an OPS of .630 is a "small sample size"). I will take your opinion for exactly what its worth.

    Salty is #2 in K's among all catchers (27) with at least 100 ABs and is 17th in BA. He is also 8th in OPS, but I prefer a guy who can make contact. He is not very good defensively either, ranking 70th among all catchers (97) in fielding percentage. He is 64th in CS % throwing out only 19% of runners. There are no good measures of how good a game the catcher calls, despite what others say-there is just no objective evidence to measure this. Also, much of his good offensive stats came early this year. He has been in a long long slump. I think we can do better.
     

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