Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In Response to Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:
    [QUOTE]I'm not sure anyone would offer six or seven years at this point given his recent history. He'd be lucky to get five and that is unlikely. A lot will depend on how he does next season. The smart move, I think, if he's unwilling to sign, would be to trade him for what they can get and let someone else deal with Boras.
    Posted by antibody[/QUOTE]


    exaclty, unless he does sign. all of which are positive. which is what i was suggesting
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In Response to Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury? : Sir it's pretty windy and rainy over here on the East Coast. I hope you're safe! Epstein was a Boras guy. Lucchino is not! Lucchino is the brains behind the Sox and gets the credit by some internally as winning the series(s) for his trade for beck and Lowell.... They are not messing around anymore. This is a clear indication to me Lucchino is in charge and I like it as a fan! Great things to come imo....
    Posted by floridamike[/QUOTE]


    i like it if he makes smart decisions, takes teh puppet strings off and lets the manager manage, and tells any player who goes around the manager, your manager is in the clubhouse. thats where you go with  a concern.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    " Why would Ellsbury even want to return to a team in total rebuild mode ?"

    Because they can afford to pay him now whereas before with those terrible contracts they coudln't. This isn't that hard to understand. 

    If Ellsbury has an issue with the Sox it's with the medical staff, not this. 

    " I think the recent trade changes the horizon for Boras and his client. They may be more willing to deal sensibly now"

    If only. Boras WILL test free agency with Ells no matter what the Sox offer. That's how he rolls. The only thing this changes is before Boras wouldn't have even bothered a real negotiation with the Sox whereas now he will talke seriously with the Sox and use their legit ability to pay Ells to drive his price up. :) 

    "Tell Boras if Ells doesn't agree to a good term offer he's being dealt to any team the Sox want...."  

    I like that! Strong arm style. Problem is as long as Ells hits free agency I think he can tolerate being traded next year. I think the Sox have to go ahead and trade Ells. It's not an easy decision but he hasn't shown quite enough to show he deserves a Crawford like overpay. Unless he goes on a power streak the rest of this year I think the Sox have no choice but to trade him, Boras isn't going to give the Sox any discounts.




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    Softy, Carnie does have a point. Pesky LOVED Ellsbury. 

    Example: "A few days later, Ellsbury stole his first base. In the same game, he hustled all the way home from second base on a wild pitch. Johnny Pesky couldn’t stop raving about the rookie, calling his scamper the greatest play he’d ever seen."

    For increased credibility please switch your avatar to: 





     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In Response to Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:
    [QUOTE]2007 key to the Sox playoff run and WS victory.. False. Was a bench guy in the playoffs, until the WS. The Red Sox dominated the Rockies, and would have won the WS without Ellsbury. Since being made a starting OF"er, at the beginning of 2008, the Red Sox have won 3 playoff games in 5 years.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    1) "key to the Sox playoff run" and "WS victory" are both factually correct
    2) he started games 6 & 7 vs. Cleveland
    3) I was speculating as to what Boras' case might be
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In Response to Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:
    [QUOTE]Key to Sox playoff run is completely false. His numbers against Cleveland weren't impressive and he was not the key to the ALDS or ALCS or WS The 2007 Red Sox won the AL East by virtue of a team that had nothing to do with Ellsbury. That team was good enough to win a rare AL East title and was miles better than any team in baseball, without Ellsbury.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    Softy, we're not in a big disagreement here.  Read my post again, I was speculating how easy (I think) it will be for Boras to play up Ells as a $100m signing.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    Ellsbury will only get a major contract in free agency if he can have a 2011 type season in 2013.

    He has talent, but has really only performed in one season to warrant a long term, mega bucks deal.  Injuries have been part of the problem, but 2011 still has been his only quality year on which to base a long term contract.

    Certainly, he will look to have a great 2013 season to maximize his free agent contract that will begin in 2014, but what are the chances that happens?

    Trading him now is probably the best alternative regarding what the Red Sox might get back for him.  If they keep him and he performs great in the first half of next year he will still be a "rental player" for whomever wants him for the rest of the 2013 season.  If he performs well all year next year he will bring back a supplemental draft pick in June of 2014.

    If he gets injured next year or doesn't have a good season (hitting .250 with no power and few stolen bases like he is doing this year) he will bring nothing back in trade at that time and with only 2011 as a quality season I am not sure that he would bring back a supplemental draft pick either.

    Right now I do not think that I would sign him for any more than he is currently earning, and he and his agent are not going to accept that type of offer.  Kalish (or someone else) will hit .250 next year for much less money.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:

    In Response to Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:
    [QUOTE]On other thread a poster made a good point.... Tell Boras if Ells doesn't agree to a good term offer he's being dealt to any team the Sox want.... He might not perform well at certain teams in his contract year....
    Posted by floridamike


    Jacoby Ellsbury, who hasn't exactly raked on the Red Sox this season, might welcome the change of scenery.

    I rather doubt the Red Sox could intimidate Scott Boras .. the fourth-place, 61-67 Red Sox aren't negotiating from a position of power.

    [/QUOTE]

    No team can intimidate any agent regardless of thier record or the number of rings they may or may not have. If they can, then the player needs to take a long look at the guy that's representing his interest...

    In the end for Boras it's always about getting the best deal to satify the needs of his client. While continuing to be seen as the leader among sports agents for players that are today in HS. Make no mistake about it, the guy has a ton of leverage. I read a story relecently, that it was he (Boras) behind the scenes that persueded the Nationals to limit Strasburg innings this year to insure that the kid stays healthy. Advice that comes with the vailed threat of if you don't head my advice...Then we're going to have some problems negotiating in good faith with his other clients, draft picks in particular and also players that are already in their system and are represented by Boras (Bryce Harper).

    My guess is that Ellsbury will not sign before going to market. Once there, the Sox have the cash to be players if they so choose to be. In the end Ellsbury will be the one that makes the final decision with Boras playing a role in providing him with options...Given that Ell's grew up in Oregon, my guess is that he'd love to play for your Seattle Mariners...However not sure they'd be players for his services. So in all likelihood it'll come down to the team the offers him the best deal given the terms on a team and in a city of his preference. A right he's earned and one that I'm sure won't be all that tough to make...






     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/22427/boras-sees-ellsbury-as-franchise-player

    This story just came out!!  Screw Boras!!
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    I just want to see how they are planning on fixing the pitching...............it will all start and end there.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:

    In Response to Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:
    [QUOTE]2007 key to the Sox playoff run and WS victory.. False. Was a bench guy in the playoffs, until the WS. The Red Sox dominated the Rockies, and would have won the WS without Ellsbury.
    Posted by TrotterNixon

    The only thing false here is you. You have Johnny Pesky as your avatar, yet you've been mocking him since he first said he liked Ellsbury. Crawl back into your abode already.

    [/QUOTE]

    Carnie, you might also inform your "friend" Trotter that Ellsbury did make it into the lineup BEFORE the 2007 World Series, inserting into it the sixth game of the ALCS after Coco Crisp's complete 0 for 5 meltdown in the 5th game of that series when he couldn't even lay down a bunt.  In fact Ells batted  safely in both games and went on to have a great WS, almost winning WS MVP.

    I would like to see if someone would address Ellsbury and see just how he feels about staying in Boston and being a Red Sox for his career.  I haven't heard anything in this regard and I really feel he is on the cusp to having four or five big years in a row.  He is a known entity and if we get a positive vibe from him we might see if we could start some preliminary talks about a new contract.  Besides, we are not in full rebuilding mode.  We are rebuilding in certain areas but at the same time we have some strengths that we want to add  to.  At least that's the way I see it.

    And will someone in control please straighten out this rotten software once and for all?????  I'm supposed to get the word  o l e without  the H out of the post but aside from just mentioning it the word doesn't appear in my post.  My God!!!!


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:

    On other thread a poster made a good point....

    Tell Boras if Ells doesn't agree to a good term offer he's being dealt to any team the Sox want....

    He might not perform well at certain teams in his contract year....



    Im all for bringing back Ells but I agree it will need to be on our terms.  At this point we can trade for a big OF batnswerto play next to Ells or simply replace him.  We need an impact player like Braun or Hamilton to get this team back on the right track. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:

    On other thread a poster made a good point....

    Tell Boras if Ells doesn't agree to a good term offer he's being dealt to any team the Sox want....

    He might not perform well at certain teams in his contract year....



    Im all for bringing back Ells but I agree it will need to be on our terms.  At this point we can trade for a big OF batnswerto play next to Ells or simply replace him.  We need an impact player like Braun or Hamilton to get this team back on the right track. 

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Good starters are needed more than big bats. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    Like it or not , Boras is the foremost agent in baseball. The Sox are not going to intimidate him. Trading Ellsbury to an inferior team would not be smart.  You would very little in return.  Only hurting yourself. They would actually be better off letting him leave as a free  agent than making a bad deal like that just to spite Boras.  Keep in mind that Boras also represents many of the Sox top prospects.  You have to deal with him now and in the future. That is a fact of baseball life. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    Boras demands will parallel the deal Crawford received.  Certainly, if Ellsbury wants to return, it helps the Sox bargaining position.  But then, players who want the status quo don't go and hire Scott Boras.

    I don't think it is wise to sign Ellsbury to a deal taht takes him through age 37 at a cost of $15mill per.  The Sox are probably wisest to let him play his last year and take the compensation pick.  I do think they will explore the trade market for him, however, and will take a good offer is one is out there... 

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    Perhaps it's time for Scott Boras and Jacoby Ellsbury to leverage the reeling Red Sox, who probably need to retain Ellsbury to appease the fan base more than Ellsbury needs a floundering franchise.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    "Carnie, you might also inform your "friend" Trotter that Ellsbury did make it into the lineup BEFORE the 2007 World Series, inserting into it the sixth game of the ALCS after Coco Crisp's complete 0 for 5 meltdown in the 5th game of that series when he couldn't even lay down a bunt. In fact Ells batted safely in both games and went on to have a great WS, almost winning WS MVP."

    And Crisp took over for an ineffective Ellsbury in the 2008 post-season...
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:

    Perhaps it's time for Scott Boras and Jacoby Ellsbury to leverage the reeling Red Sox, who probably need to retain Ellsbury to appease the fan base more than Ellsbury needs a floundering franchise.



    Hill55,

    I get that you're having a good chuckle over the state of affairs in Boston. Come on man, the Sox are hardly a floundering franchise...That distiction suggest that we're doomed to be cellar dwellers for the next decade. Like your Seattle Mariners have been and a distinction more apt to be applied to teams like Kanas City or Pittsburg. However the greatest difference between the aforementioned and my beloved Red Sox is that given the resources of and the market in which we play. Retooling this team will be expiditiuos in comparison to the decade long struggles of the M's to put a team on the field with legit championship petigree. re: Ellsbury, his oft injured resume has regardless of what Boras espouses,tarnished his value. I would agree that the Sox may well need him more than he needs them. However if he chooses to sign elsewhere there's plenty of fish in the sea with Victorino and Bourne both coming to market. The Sox also have a legit CF prospect in thier system who could be fast tracked to the big leagues in 2014...All of whom could replace him in the leadoff spot in the lineup (probably his greatest assest to the team and a key to the retool)...

    As for my Red Sox fortunes in the coming seasons. Entering this offseason and looking forward have the financial freedom to make very compelling offers to any and all free agents and almost as important can use the moneys they have at thier disposal to aquire players who are today seen as fiscal liabilities to thier current teams. I trust that both Luccino and Cherington will in the interest of their own ego's begin in earnest to prove that they are more than capable of building a team with championship meddle. My intuition suggest that part of thier incentive to retool this team with haste, lyes in Chicago's northside. Where the no longer young Epstein resides. It doesn't hurt that they have 100M burning a whole in thier pockets either...

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?:

    Perhaps it's time for Scott Boras and Jacoby Ellsbury to leverage the reeling Red Sox, who probably need to retain Ellsbury to appease the fan base more than Ellsbury needs a floundering franchise.



    Hill55,

    I get that you're having a good chuckle over the state of affairs in Boston. Come on man, the Sox are hardly a floundering franchise...That distiction suggest that we're doomed to be cellar dwellers for the next decade. Like your Seattle Mariners have been and a distinction more apt to be applied to teams like Kanas City or Pittsburg. However the greatest difference between the aforementioned and my beloved Red Sox is that given the resources of and the market in which we play. Retooling this team will be expiditiuos in comparison to the decade long struggles of the M's to put a team on the field with legit championship petigree. re: Ellsbury, his oft injured resume has regardless of what Boras espouses,tarnished his value. I would agree that the Sox may well need him more than he needs them. However if he chooses to sign elsewhere there's plenty of fish in the sea with Victorino and Bourne both coming to market. The Sox also have a legit CF prospect in thier system who could be fast tracked to the big leagues in 2014...All of whom could replace him in the leadoff spot in the lineup (probably his greatest assest to the team and a key to the retool)...

    As for my Red Sox fortunes in the coming seasons. Entering this offseason and looking forward have the financial freedom to make very compelling offers to any and all free agents and almost as important can use the moneys they have at thier disposal to aquire players who are today seen as fiscal liabilities to thier current teams. I trust that both Luccino and Cherington will in the interest of their own ego's begin in earnest to prove that they are more than capable of building a team with championship meddle. My intuition suggest that part of thier incentive to retool this team with haste, lyes in Chicago's northside. Where the no longer young Epstein resides. It doesn't hurt that they have 100M burning a whole in thier pockets either...

     

    [/QUOTE]
    I referred to the Red Sox as a floundering, or struggling, franchise, not a foundering, or sinking, franchise. It's a subtle distinction.

    Still, I almost immediately tried to delete my post as too provocative, but the new format won't let me (or at least I could not figure out how to do it).

    I agree that the Red Sox will have the money to overpay on the free agent market ... again.

    The Red Sox have been a fascinating team to follow during their successes and during their struggles. I look forward to seeing the Sox play in Seattle on Labor Day.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from floridamike. Show floridamike's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    Yes it was your post i read sir!

    I think for the first time in a long time the red sox front office is back in power.

    They have sent a clear message to the team by the trade.

    If Ellsbury wants a big long term contract that's great! Good luck and by the way we traded you to minnesota for young studs!

    I like that type of message!
     
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