Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    He's suffered a troubling 2 m..p.h. loss of fastball velocity. Fangraphs shows him missing the zone too often and the ball left "up" too often. Apparently he's too stubborn to change his approach, even though he's really having trouble utting hitters away on 0-2 and 1-2 counts.

    His E.R.A. is WAY too high, and his W.H.I.P. is unacceptably high. His recent inability to go deep in games is over-taxing the bullpen , and he's not winning enough to compensate for it.

    Definitely time to trade him for value, right Moon ?

    I speak, of course, of noted cancer survivor, winner of 2007 World Series clinching game 4, and owner of a no-hitter, Jon Lester. ( Who will ALWAYS seem heroic to me ! )  How quickly the wheel can turn for the impatient or unrealistically demanding.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    In response to jimedfred's comment:

    He's suffered a troubling 2 m..p.h. loss of fastball velocity. Fangraphs shows him missing the zone too often and the ball left "up" too often. Apparently he's too stubborn to change his approach, even though he's really having trouble utting hitters away on 0-2 and 1-2 counts.

    His E.R.A. is WAY too high, and his W.H.I.P. is unacceptably high. His recent inability to go deep in games is over-taxing the bullpen , and he's not winning enough to compensate for it.

    Definitely time to trade him for value, right Moon ?

    I speak, of course, of noted cancer survivor, winner of 2007 World Series clinching game 4, and owner of a no-hitter, Jon Lester. ( Who will ALWAYS seem heroic to me ! )  How quickly the wheel can turn for the impatient or unrealistically demanding.



    No way....Moon is stil looking to trade Doubront for Gavin Floyd. Says the kid has "motivational issues" or something like that. Track record is great sometimes, and Lester certainly has a good one. But when a power pitcher who  loses velo look out......yeah, Pedro did it, but he was ALWAYS a pitcher, not a thrower like Lester

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    Although there would be teams lined up to take Lester, his value is low right now. If the Sox could get back another starter That could step right in and perform like a #1 or #2, is under control and a add in a couple more pieces, depending on the players Id consider it. But it would have to blow me away. The last thing you want to do right now is take away from your rotation. And unless theres another arm coming back that has the same potential, it makes no sense to do it.

    An off season move would probably make more sense if they do decide to move Lester.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    I would like to be a fly on the wall in the boardroom when BenC and LL put Lester on Waivers to see all the teams lined up to claim him. Southy I would be surprised at teams that may be willing to take a flyer on him and which ones would be serious to make a trade offer with value worth looking at.

    How about an even up swap Lester for Big Game James?

    Lester for Garza?

    How about Lester for Cishek (Marlins) or Perkins Twins)?

    I think we could find a starter easier than a closer.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?


    Southpaw , it was more of a dig at Moonslav regarding Doubront than a genuine suggestion. However an off-season deal might not be a bad idea. Lester's stuff might play better in Cleveland with Tito or in the N.L. due to unfamiliarity.

    Barring sudden reversals or leaps forward of develoment by Webster, De LaRosa, Britton or Ranaudo , Jon L's not going anywhere in 2013 except the playoffs.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    In response to jimedfred's comment:

    He's suffered a troubling 2 m..p.h. loss of fastball velocity. Fangraphs shows him missing the zone too often and the ball left "up" too often. Apparently he's too stubborn to change his approach, even though he's really having trouble utting hitters away on 0-2 and 1-2 counts.

    His E.R.A. is WAY too high, and his W.H.I.P. is unacceptably high. His recent inability to go deep in games is over-taxing the bullpen , and he's not winning enough to compensate for it.

    Definitely time to trade him for value, right Moon ?

    I speak, of course, of noted cancer survivor, winner of 2007 World Series clinching game 4, and owner of a no-hitter, Jon Lester. ( Who will ALWAYS seem heroic to me ! )  How quickly the wheel can turn for the impatient or unrealistically demanding.



    We are not going to get much in return for a SP who has stunk for two years now. Thats just the fact of the matter. I would move him to the bullpen, which is short anyway, and give Ace a chance to start again.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    Most MLB teams do not in fact have two lefty starters.  Assuming Buchholz joins the rotation after the all-star break, I think the Sox will have a pretty solid rotation with, in order, Buchholz, Lackey, Doubront, Dempster, and Lester.  Based only on how they have pitched this season, I think the first three are pretty darn good and Dempster and Lester not too shabby for the 4 and 5 slots. Aceves is the spot starter. 

    I too had major heartburn about Doubront, but that was about his control problems.  Even I could see he had good stuff and was willing to use all his pitches.

    Like others, I think Lester is healthy and capable, but stubborn--he likes to throw what hitters like to hit.  His fastball is plenty fast enough, but not if hitters know he is going to rely on it--so they can ignore his curve and changeup--and not if he throws it right down the middle.  Lester claims he is throwing good stuff, but the hitters are somehow hitting it.  This tells me he is either tipping his pitches or is too predictable, probably the latter. 

    Chad Finn says the Sox should go after the Phillies Cliff Lee, but I think that is a pipe dream. 

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to jimedfred's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    He's suffered a troubling 2 m..p.h. loss of fastball velocity. Fangraphs shows him missing the zone too often and the ball left "up" too often. Apparently he's too stubborn to change his approach, even though he's really having trouble utting hitters away on 0-2 and 1-2 counts.

    His E.R.A. is WAY too high, and his W.H.I.P. is unacceptably high. His recent inability to go deep in games is over-taxing the bullpen , and he's not winning enough to compensate for it.

    Definitely time to trade him for value, right Moon ?

    I speak, of course, of noted cancer survivor, winner of 2007 World Series clinching game 4, and owner of a no-hitter, Jon Lester. ( Who will ALWAYS seem heroic to me ! )  How quickly the wheel can turn for the impatient or unrealistically demanding.

     



    We are not going to get much in return for a SP who has stunk for two years now. Thats just the fact of the matter. I would move him to the bullpen, which is short anyway, and give Ace a chance to start again.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There's a better chance of you being moved to the bullpen, Pumpsie, so you might want to rent a movie on days he's scheduled to pitch.  Barring injury, he's not going anywhere this season.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    Patrick Corbin

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    tito loves him...

    lester + $$ for masterson?

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    Patrick Corbin

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    I hear alot of people say that GM's will be lining up to get John Lester and I am sure that would be the case if he was a Free Agent and teams could decide what to sign him for, but I can;t see GM's lining up to give up anything great for him.....John Lester since the All Star game in 2011, so almost exactly 2 years , has started 66 games, has 22 Wins, 24 Losses with a 4.54 ERA and a 1.37 WHIP. Has a K to BB/9 inning ratio over that time frame of 7.5 to 3.25....these are not only not ACE Stats every one of them is below the league averages,,,,so GM's arent stupid....they arent giving top prospects for John Lester, unless someone thinks the Red Sox are mishandling him for some unknown reason.....we all liked to believe that Lester struggling was somehow due to Josh Beckett being a bad influence....that doesnt seem to be the case.....maybe it is lost velocity...maybe it is lost location...maybe he is tipping pitches, but right now John Lester is at best our #4 starter and probably our #5.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    tito loves him...

    lester + $$ for masterson?




    What is this love affair people seem to have for Masterson?  He's okay, but he's nothing special.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    tito loves him...

    lester + $$ for masterson?



    I don't know whether the Lester/ Francona friendship  is as sound as you suggest. What did Lester do about the Chicken and Beer?  did he stand up to management when they were getting ready to fire Francona?

    I would be very surprised if Indian upper management would go along with Lester for Masterson. I would support this trade in a heartbeat. I would be inclined to trade Lester for Furbush maybe even Harang. There are not many starters I would turn down for Lester.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    In response to jimedfred's comment:


    Southpaw , it was more of a dig at Moonslav regarding Doubront than a genuine suggestion. However an off-season deal might not be a bad idea. Lester's stuff might play better in Cleveland with Tito or in the N.L. due to unfamiliarity.

    Barring sudden reversals or leaps forward of develoment by Webster, De LaRosa, Britton or Ranaudo , Jon L's not going anywhere in 2013 except the playoffs.




    I was thinking that with the direct comment to Moon, but wasnt 100% positive.

    I agree that Lester will be in this rotation this year. He has a reasonable 13M option for 2014. With what pitchers are getting as far as salary nowadays, 13M is a bargain even if Lester pitches like a #3 starter.

    I dont think they give up on him and will give him through 2014, unless a deal comes along that is just too good to turn down of course.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    In response to tomnev's comment:

     

    I hear alot of people say that GM's will be lining up to get John Lester and I am sure that would be the case if he was a Free Agent and teams could decide what to sign him for, but I can;t see GM's lining up to give up anything great for him.....John Lester since the All Star game in 2011, so almost exactly 2 years , has started 66 games, has 22 Wins, 24 Losses with a 4.54 ERA and a 1.37 WHIP. Has a K to BB/9 inning ratio over that time frame of 7.5 to 3.25....these are not only not ACE Stats every one of them is below the league averages,,,,so GM's arent stupid....they arent giving top prospects for John Lester, unless someone thinks the Red Sox are mishandling him for some unknown reason.....we all liked to believe that Lester struggling was somehow due to Josh Beckett being a bad influence....that doesnt seem to be the case.....maybe it is lost velocity...maybe it is lost location...maybe he is tipping pitches, but right now John Lester is at best our #4 starter and probably our #5.

     




    Thats what I was referring to with GMs lined up to get him. I realize his value is low right now, and stated that. Thats one reason why I dont think they give up on him. I also believe they think hes good enough to turn things around. Remember, although his slide started late 2011, he didnt start really getting help until this year. He had to go through 3 pitching coaches and now his 3rd manager in 3 years, along with a ton of internal drama. So, I understand when this all started, but I also realize that there was no stability until this year. Im willing, and I think the Sox are to, to give him a good amount of rope to work on things. Hes made some positive adjustments and I understand he might be a little stubborn, but I dont think that will hinder him, like it does beckett, to change things up.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Time to swap out a lefty starter ?

    Probably a lot of National League GM's will be looking at Lester. American League, not too sure.
    He throws so many pitches by the end of the 3rd inning, that you have to think of using the Bullpen anyway, the way the National League plays.

     
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