Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

    Last year, I pointed to a start Wakefield made v. Kansas City when he was threw 6 good innings, the Sox had a nice lead and Tito for whatever reason felt the need to leave him out there in 90 degree heat. Wakefield loaded the bases and should have been pulled, but Tito left him out there against a hitter Sweeney (i think) who owned him--grand slam HR and all of a sudden its 8-7. Tito couldn't figure out that Tim was tired (I could, you could see he was spent and the team had already all but clinch the win). Then, Tito had a game v. Chicago Cubs, with a nice lead he sent Albers out there and Matt immediately couldn't throw strikes, a couple of walks, a couple of hits and then looking at the bullpen NO ONE warming up. Albers ended up losing the lead and the Sox went on to lose. Apparently his intention was for Albers to throw the 8th and 9th and he forced him to do it without realizing that he was off that day and needed to be replaced. It was poor judgment, just poor judgment in two cases that seemed pretty obvious in what to do--warm up another reliever or have someone warming up in the 6th and let Wake get a nice ovation in being yanked in the 7th....

    This brings me to BV...Clayton Mortensen pretty much throws 3 strong innings and yet another yo-yo from Pawtucket to Boston. His track record spoke for itself--and his 11th appearance seemed like the other 10--excellent work. So what does BV do? He leaves him in for a 4th inning. Mind you, Mortensen has somehow been this emergency guy that BV has him drop his bags in the bullpen and then puts him into every 1st game that he is back on the roster--but Clayton came through again. And BV all but ruins the Sox and Mort's performance by making him throw a 4th inning of work--short of Aceves, few can do that anymore and it's always more likely today's relievers will be spent by the 2nd time around the order....

    Poor judgments by managers with pitching can lead to losses. Tito threw away that Chicago game and in  my opinion BV didn't use his brain either last night.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

    could we start looking at the pitching coach who have more knowledge about pitching than the manager?   That pitching coach for this year was on the team last year!!!!!


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

    uh, no. McClure is new.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

    Also you don't need a pitching coach to decide if a pitcher is looking tired or should be replaced. It's not that hard to figure stuff out from the manager's perch.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

    no DC is right, 2 big mistakes this week with aceves and morteson being left in too long....of course if beckett had pitched decently, Mort wouldnt have been needed 4 innings...

    but snake has also said it right, that BV is not that diff from tito....he wont bench players and we know who needs to go into the bullpen....like the insanity last yr w/wakefield trotting him out every 5th game while we were losing - it will be repeated again this yr...i sincerely ask this, what does a starter have to do to lose their slot in the rotation? if we can bench youk, we should be able to bench Jb/JL
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

    In Response to Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching:
    uh, no. McClure is new.
    Posted by dannycater


    You re right.  Still by looking at his resume, he is a terrible hired pitching coach!!
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

    I always thought John Farrell was over rated but I do think the staff has been in decline since he left.....Young and McClure have done nothing it seems to work on the issues that seem apparent to fans.

    I actually think all in all Bobby has done a good job of managing the pen, considering the injuries, the Bard fiasco which he was against....and that all these guys are new to him....some hiccups for sure, but I think he is a better BP Manager than Tito was. As for leaving Mortenson inm he had thrown 5 innings and 71 pitches in relief of Dice K in Oakland and he was around 40 pitches when he started the 9th yesterday and he had been lights out......if he had taken him out and another reliever gave up the tie, many would have been screaming he should have stuck with the hot hand. I think McClure is a bigger problem than Bobby.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

    In Response to Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching:
    I always thought John Farrell was over rated but I do think the staff has been in decline since he left.....Young and McClure have done nothing it seems to work on the issues that seem apparent to fans. I actually think all in all Bobby has done a good job of managing the pen, considering the injuries, the Bard fiasco which he was against....and that all these guys are new to him....some hiccups for sure, but I think he is a better BP Manager than Tito was. As for leaving Mortenson inm he had thrown 5 innings and 71 pitches in relief of Dice K in Oakland and he was around 40 pitches when he started the 9th yesterday and he had been lights out......if he had taken him out and another reliever gave up the tie, many would have been screaming he should have stuck with the hot hand. I think McClure is a bigger problem than Bobby.
    Posted by tomnev



    Very good post!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

    The crux of the problem is that the starting pitchers do not go deep enough into games. Over the season , the bullpen wears down. Same thing last year. With better starters , the pen would stay fresher and be more effective at this point. As it is , any pitching / bullpen decision by Valentine is risky and open to second guessing. Who can he really count on ? 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Tito and BV Lack of Feel For Pitching

    The pen is being worn out. Padilla is not available. Atchison is on the DL.
    BV hoped to get one more inning out of Beckett, but should have lifted him after Murphy's single. He hoped to get another inning out of Mortenson, who has gone more than  three. Neither move worked.
    Ben Cherrington has made some good moves, but one mistake appears to have overridden them all. He overestimated the durability and effectiveness of the The Big Three, and he made Bard a starter. Thus he did not, as Moon suggested, seek to acquire a front-line pitcher. Not predictably but probably, the Big Three have had problems of one kind or other. At the moment, only Buchholz is pitching well. The other two are typically out of games early so that the pen has to be used from the sixth onwards. Both Beckett and Lester are falling short of reasonable expectations from pitchers at the top of the rotation. I said "reasonable" based on various factors, certainly in Lester's case, but there were signs in September that both pitchers might be shaky in 2102, even though Beckett had pitched very well until then. You can't definitely write off September as an aberration. You have to wonder anyway, and at least begin to think that maybe another guy at the top would be a good precautionary move.
    I know about league average innings for starters, and all of that. I know that Lester was one of the most effective pitchers in the league until last September. But in themselves these are not good reasons for the kind of overestimation that Cherrington made. IMO, there was no good reason to think that Bard would be a successful starter. In Ben's mind, apparently, Bard was the "acquired" starter. That was a mistake. 
    No doubt about it, Beckett and Lester are high amongst the reasons why the Sox are where they are. Together, they might even be THE reason. So while injuries and underperformance are glaring, the failure to get another starter looms large. 

     
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