Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!:
    [QUOTE]I say the number one person is Youk.  I love Youk for the way he hustles and plays hard.  But his act has worn thin.  He used to train in Arizona with Pedey.  Now he looks fat and outta shape.  He has broken down two yrs running at crucial times.  Look back in history. 1. Feud with Manny. 2. Feud with Jacoby. 3. Always yelling at Pedey in the field. 4. This year when Agon threw a cup down and did some sorta ritual it clearly shows Youk shaking his head like Agon is some loser. I am places all my chips on Youk.  I know a lot is observed with Lackey and I think there could be something to it.  But he has always been that way even in LA when Soscia would come get him.  He had a terrible year and last year he had the most quality starts.  He looks arrogant and acts it.  But I have have listened to inteviews from his old team mates over the yrs who said he was a solid team mate. My bet is Youk.  And I wouldnt be shocked if he were dealt.  How about for David Wright.     Burrito.  Im not having a great week but your emotion on this made me laugh.  Thanks bud
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    Youk gets moved across the infield to make room for the new guy who just happens to get a monster contract, I could see Youk handling that like a scorned child.  Lets also not forget that after 2012 Youk is not under contract, Sox have a cheap buy out on him for 2013, so maybe he see's the writing on the wall.

    That stuff is all speculative though, his effort on the field has never declined and unlike Drew, I believe Youk made every effort to get out there and help even when he was hurting.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    Couple of thoughts Thesemenarecowards.

    Youk always thought he was a third baseman that moved to first. He may have become outspoken about guys being lazy and stuff, that seems to be his nature. But much of what your saying here is wild conjecture.

    The Beckett shots are IMHO way off. Josh Beckett played much of September on a bad ankle. his return back from that was faster than many thought and probably was far from 100%.

    The team did not lose because the room turned sour, the rom turned sour because the team was losing. The pitching stunk. They did not have the ability to cover the loses of Dice K and Buch and Lackey was a grease fire all year.

    The room turning sour may have contributed to the collapse and hence missing the playoffs in spite of the big lead but that team's fundamental issues with pitching all but insured that team wasn't going far in the post season. They had NOTHING after Beckett and Lester.

    The chemistry stuff from a bunch of millionaire players is annoying for us normal compensated fans and juicy gossip. And will need to be cleaned up moving forward.

    But it should never cloak the fact that come September as far as pitching went, the RS came to a gun fight with a pen knife.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    Your naming just about everybody but the batboy minimizes your point. Especially unsupported is the inclusion of Ellsbury. Youk is the one who started the let's hate Ellsbury mantra last year that spread like a virus into the media and this forum. Anybody in their right mind would be quiet and businesslike coming back into that atmosphere created by Youk. Being quiet does not equate to being a clubhouse cancer like Lackey. Simply totally disagree with you.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    I've heard that one of the clubhouse 'drinkers' included Matt Albers. Would not surprise me given the shape he's in.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfan23325. Show patsfan23325's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    i believe it is youk since he openly b1tches on the field and lacky has shown his a$$ on the field numerous times, i think if that is the case trade them both, middlebrooks should be about ready to come up soon and need to get that huge contract of lacky out of here. Other changes include do not re-sign DREW, Wakefield,veritek, and papi, the reason i say Papi is he is so limited in NL league games and we need more righties in our lineup. i would bring back scutero as the back-up to Inglesis and re-sign avalis as well. find another starter in the free agent market as well as a Right handed power hitting DH that can play the field. i.e albert Pujols ( henry loves him and we will free up some cash with the non-tendered FA)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

     I don't get it either. Ellsbury is quiet in the clubhouse, which makes him somehow suspect in the bizarre search for Red Sox malcontents? Hello! The guy just had one of the greatest years as a leadoff hitter in the history of the game and some folks still insist on smearing him. It seems to me he's the last guy on the team whom you could accuse of lacking commitment.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!:
    [QUOTE]I've heard that one of the clubhouse 'drinkers' included Matt Albers. Would not surprise me given the shape he's in.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]Surprises me since the report was guys not scheduled to pitch (i.e. starters) and Albers was a reliever.

    Do you have a link or was this a WEEI callers scoop?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    I am not blaming Ellsbury. I don't know him. I only know what's been reported about him. He and Jed Lowrie (another guy who allegedly nurses injuries) apparently separated themselves from the rest of the team. Ellsbury's commitment to the Red Sox was in fact questioned last season by teammates and management. Furthermore, being a quiet person doesn't necessarily make you a good clubhouse presence. Passive-aggressive behavior (and I'm not saying Ellsubry is an example of such) can have just as much of a deleterious impact on team harmony as vociferous whining. I included him on the list of possible malcontents because other players and members of the media have done the same. All we can do is speculate. That doesn't mean I don't want him on the team next year. Of course I want him back, unless he really is a significant troublemaker.

    Beyond Ellsbury, what if it turns out (just hypothetically speaking here) that Jon Lester is a total jerk? Would that make you inclined to trade him, or would you just apply a lot of discipline and hope for the best? I would lean towards keeping a malcontent, if he's productive. Keep in mind that the Red Sox managed to win two World Series Championships with Manny Ramirez on the roster and he was probably twice the malcontent of anyone on the current team. Winning and losing ultimately come down to skill and execution. Teams with good chemistry might overachieve a little, but they won't win championships without underlying talent.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    Ellsbury is certainly not an extrovert, more of the quiet type. That hardly equates to being a problem for the manager. Jacoby seems to attend his teammates golf and bowling events, and was seen out on the town last off season, with his girlfriend and Papelbon and Pedroia and their wives , celebrating Pap's birthday , so he is not exactly a complete loner.  So, who are the troublemakers? Maybe we will never know. Personally , I think the fans, who support this team , have a right to know. Tito is not the kind of guy to name names. So, it is up to the reporters to do their job and dig up the information.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!:
    [QUOTE]Couple of thoughts Thesemenarecowards. Youk always thought he was a third baseman that moved to first. He may have become outspoken about guys being lazy and stuff, that seems to be his nature. But much of what your saying here is wild conjecture. The Beckett shots are IMHO way off. Josh Beckett played much of September on a bad ankle. his return back from that was faster than many thought and probably was far from 100%. The team did not lose because the room turned sour, the rom turned sour because the team was losing. The pitching stunk. They did not have the ability to cover the loses of Dice K and Buch and Lackey was a grease fire all year. The room turning sour may have contributed to the collapse and hence missing the playoffs in spite of the big lead but that team's fundamental issues with pitching all but insured that team wasn't going far in the post season. They had NOTHING after Beckett and Lester. The chemistry stuff from a bunch of millionaire players is annoying for us normal compensated fans and juicy gossip. And will need to be cleaned up moving forward. But it should never cloak the fact that come September as far as pitching went, the RS came to a gun fight with a pen knife.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Well, and as I said at the end, Youk's play did the talking as far as I'm concerned.  Always the maximum effort we expect from him but he certainly has precedent for not being the most agreeable teammate at times.

     I do believe that the probability is high that the team will not pick up the 2013 option after next year though, obviously somewhat dependent on how Youk performs next season.  If they are serious about getting rid of Lackey, something I think won't happen this off season, they are talking about eating 35-45 million.  But if Lackey duplictates this year in 2012, I could see them dumping him/trading him and eating 20-30 million.  Combine that with Agone's 13 million dollar raise and the big money they now have no choice but to pay Ellsbury and they are going to need to cut cost somewhere.  Saving 13 mil at 3B with a younger/cheaper option allows them to use that money to address the SP need that Lackey will leave. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards! : Well, and as I said at the end, Youk's play did the talking as far as I'm concerned.  Always the maximum effort we expect from him but he certainly has precedent for not being the most agreeable teammate at times.  I do believe that the probability is high that the team will not pick up the 2013 option after next year though, obviously somewhat dependent on how Youk performs next season.  If they are serious about getting rid of Lackey, something I think won't happen this off season, they are talking about eating 35-45 million.  But if Lackey duplictates this year in 2012, I could see them dumping him/trading him and eating 20-30 million.  Combine that with Agone's 13 million dollar raise and the big money they now have no choice but to pay Ellsbury and they are going to need to cut cost somewhere.  Saving 13 mil at 3B with a younger/cheaper option allows them to use that money to address the SP need that Lackey will leave. 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]I agree with Youk with the exception on his option being where Middlebrooks in in development, Youk's 2012 and the FA market if Middlebrooks does a Lars Anderson. Youk is entering the last of his prime and the contract was built to get the best and move on.

    If Lackey duplicates his 2011 I could see them DFAing him if they have to during 2012. say whatever they want to in public, they have to be close to edge with him and only his contract will have them staying the course any longer.

    If Ellsbury keeps playing like he has, he may well price himself out of the RS budget. They will not be an extension, not ho Boras clients play it.

    Just my takes   
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!:
    [QUOTE]This has become bigger than I was naively expecting. I did not really think beyond the poor pitching and some gaffes by Tito this past month. If the clubhouse has some bad people in it I want to know who. I always really liked Beckett and Youk but I promise you if real evidence comes out that they made problems for others then I will be chanting them out of town.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I'm sure they'll be shaking with fear at UR Cambodian foghorn.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from OZGOD. Show OZGOD's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    Too many overpaid primadonnas in the clubhouse, starting with JOHN LACKEY. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards! :
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas[/QUOTE]

    No offense to you, but this photo makes me sick to my stomach.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    Why do people need names?

    Wasn't it all Lackey?  Isn't that the point of this thread - to find more ways to blame Lackey??

    So what if the manager singled him out as one guy who was completely innocent!?! The man had an ERA over 6!!! Clubhouse Crybaby!!!  He was the problem!!  I ddin't see anyone else in the rotation with an ERA that high!!

    Except Weiland. 

    And Miller was pretty close, too.

    And Bedard's September ERA was up there, too.  You know, when he showed up.

    But never mind them!! This is about Lackey and how his 6+ERA was ruining the clubhouse!!

    And all these stories about drinking beers in the clubhouse?!  Look at Lackey's belly! What do you see?!  CASE CLOSED!!! It was Lackey drinking beers in the dugout during games!! And snorting crystal meth on the field, too!

    So stop asking questions.  We know the truth.  We know it the second we make it up...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    You want names? You want answers? You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from djbosox2004. Show djbosox2004's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!:
    [QUOTE]You want names? You want answers? You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    =================================================
     The truth shall set you free.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    This is like the Salem Witch Trials. Guys. Please. Guessing at who were the rouble players is an interesting discussion, but we may never know for sure what went on.

    Maybe some players will beging to break down and point fingers, but even then, who knows...
     
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    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!:
    [QUOTE]Why do people need names? Wasn't it all Lackey?  Isn't that the point of this thread - to find more ways to blame Lackey?? So what if the manager singled him out as one guy who was completely innocent!?! The man had an ERA over 6!!! Clubhouse Crybaby!!!  He was the problem!!  I ddin't see anyone else in the rotation with an ERA that high!! Except Weiland.  And Miller was pretty close, too. And Bedard's September ERA was up there, too.  You know, when he showed up. But never mind them!! This is about Lackey and how his 6+ERA was ruining the clubhouse!! And all these stories about drinking beers in the clubhouse?!  Look at Lackey's belly! What do you see?!  CASE CLOSED!!! It was Lackey drinking beers in the dugout during games!! And snorting crystal meth on the field, too! So stop asking questions.  We know the truth.  We know it the second we make it up...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Nice pun.

    If Lackey was such poison - if his arrogant ways were sooooooooooo detrimental - I wonder why the Lester/Beckett clique welcomed him with open arms...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxNation4Ever. Show RedSoxNation4Ever's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

      as to complaints on travel...Gonzalez was quoted as complaining about the night games on travel days.  How it made for late days and fatigue.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards! : No offense to you, but this photo makes me sick to my stomach.
    Posted by ampoule[/QUOTE]

    It was fully intended to.
    It's a direct reflection on the nature and intent of this witch-hunt thread.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    "My impression of Gonzalez is that he is more quiet than anything.  I don't think he would stir any trouble, but is probably not a leader in the club-house."  slomag

    I am of the opinion that your dead on with that assessment.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    In Response to Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!:
    [QUOTE]Why do people need names? Wasn't it all Lackey?  Isn't that the point of this thread - to find more ways to blame Lackey?? So what if the manager singled him out as one guy who was completely innocent!?! The man had an ERA over 6!!! Clubhouse Crybaby!!!  He was the problem!!  I ddin't see anyone else in the rotation with an ERA that high!! Except Weiland.  And Miller was pretty close, too. And Bedard's September ERA was up there, too.  You know, when he showed up. But never mind them!! This is about Lackey and how his 6+ERA was ruining the clubhouse!! And all these stories about drinking beers in the clubhouse?!  Look at Lackey's belly! What do you see?!  CASE CLOSED!!! It was Lackey drinking beers in the dugout during games!! And snorting crystal meth on the field, too! So stop asking questions.  We know the truth.  We know it the second we make it up...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    notin you missed the point, I said I did not need any confirmation on lackey, his fate is sealed imo. I want to know about the others. Even if it ends up being Beckett then I want to know, and yes it will directly affect my opinion of him or anyone else involved going forward.

    I don't expect to have Crawford named as one of those who caused problems. Unfortunately I think it will be some of my favorite players like Youk.

    We deserve to know, our fandom pays their salaries and they have taken us for granted. 



     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    really harness? I suggest boooing the pizz out of them all next year and you and los bring up lynching?  your favorite manager just lost his job and you don't want to know the real reasons why? Odd.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tito give us the NAMES, we want the NAMES of those Bastards!

    Soooooooooo, this witch-hunt thread is supposed to uncover the real reasons?
     

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