Tito on Hot Seat

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    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]Nasty ADG...your mother will wash your mouth out with soap! But then again, the Coma-lovers just insult the rest of us...so sad. In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat :
    Posted by PetesCall[/QUOTE]

    We don't just insult you, we also point out his positives.  But you ignore those, don't you?  Keep on hating.  It's probably one of the only things you're good at.
     
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    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]"Watch any Yankee game. Come the 5 inning and beyond they amp up the pressure from that point forward.  A team with  winning attitude does not leave 10 -15 men on base in close games.  A team with a winning attitued can be counted on to get the key hit at the right time."    They're 11-4 vs the Yankees this year.It seems they were getting the key hits at the right time in eleven out of fifteen chances.
    Posted by mrmojo1120[/QUOTE]

    You do know that the Yankees are not the only team they play all year correct???? Since they are 11-4 against the Yankees and still trail them at this point maybe it's possible to conclude the Yankees are getting a few more key hits??
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : No insult intended by 'Coma-lovers', though, right?  LOL Just like a hater to get all snooty and sensitive when someone strikes back.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Plus, there's also the implied insult that those of us who appreciate Tito and Theo for what they've done are "sheep" or "lemmings."  Ha, ha.  These Sox self-haters are a sad, lonely bunch.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from OhEFFU. Show OhEFFU's posts

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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : 3. How many times did I think he should yank a pitcher, but he doesn't , and that pitcher recovers and does OK? Your spot on there baby. That's the big reason I am loathed to criticize Tito. I can't remember how many times I have been shouting at the TV ( not really) pull the pitcher Tito, only to have the guy recover and get out of the inning. One has to honest, Tito overall is terrific, is he perfect? No one is.
    Posted by aussiewill[/QUOTE]

    Right, thanks for an open-minded comment on this.  Some folks here (I guess some OTHERS, not you) seem to just pick out the cases they were RIGHT, after the fact, like selective data in a science context, and then go after Tito.  But unless you are keeping track or both when you are right AND when you are wrong, you are in no position to criticise, it's just gum-flappin'.
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : So let me get this straight.... The Sox and Yank's have been neck and neck all year both teams on pace to win 100 games...Head to head the Sox having already won the season series but somehow we find ways to gripe becasue the Sox aren't running away with it? Because clearly the Yanks are lucky that the Sox don't posses a winning attitude under Francona are underachievers with suspect winning attitude and lack the starting pitching to match up agaist the Yank's. Because clearly if they did posses a better winning attitude they'd be 3 or 4 games up....Wow! Someone forget to tell the Yankees that... Name one team that is currently on pace to win 100 games? That lost 2 of thier 5 opening day starters to injury, one season ending, the other their #3 guy and still managed to stay in contention for the division and have a comfortable lead in the WC. Yet they lack a winning attitude? As for how we match up with the Yank's come post season...If the post season started today even though we wouldn't play the Yankees...cause like it or not we both will need to win a series before thr dream matchups could take place and if it did the starters for the series would look like this... Lester v Sabathia Beckett v Colon Bedard v Garcia Lackey v Nova Call me crazy but that doesn't look like either team has a decided advantage...It'll come down to who brings their A game and the same is true if you match us or them up against the Tigers or the Rangers.
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]
    I didn't say the Yankees are lucky...... In fact this year it actually seems all the bad calls are not going their way......... I mearly said that the Sox have a team that seems to me IN GENERAL to lack emotion, as well as the ability to get the key hits when needed to win close games.  I'm not complaining about our record I'm simply pointing out that with a team this good we should not be leaving so many men on base or seeing games like last night where we were embarassed.  Sorry if you take that to mean I don't appreciate that in spite of that they still have one of the best records in baseball.
       As far as your pitching match ups No real problem, if we could go with a two man rotation. I'd agree we are about even, but since we can't, I honestly think it's clear the Yankees have a pitching advantage.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : You do know that the Yankees are not the only team they play all year correct???? Since they are 11-4 against the Yankees and still trail them at this point maybe it's possible to conclude the Yankees are getting a few more key hits??
    Posted by tetonman50[/QUOTE]

       They're up 1/2 game,not 4,5 or more.Not really dominating in my opinion.Also,you're the one who brought up the Yankees as getting "key hits" at the right time. 
       According to ESPN.com,The Yankees are also 17-18 in 1 run games and 4-7 in extra innings this year,Boston is 17-12 in 1 run games and 5-3 in extra innings.NY could have probably used a couple of more "key hits" to be .500 for 1 run games and extra innings games.
       Nothing personal,but I think the Red Sox are doing just fine and hopefully will continue to.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/type/expanded
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from OhEFFU. Show OhEFFU's posts

    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : I didn't say the Yankees are lucky......   I'm not complaining about our record I'm simply pointing out that with a team this good we should not be leaving so many men on basePosted by tetonman50[/QUOTE]

    Just a minor point, I think you will find the better a team is offensively, the MORE people they will leve on base, not the fewer.  The more you get on, the more you leave on, that's just math.
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat :    They're up 1/2 game,not 4,5 or more.Not really dominating in my opinion.Also,you're the one who brought up the Yankees as getting "key hits" at the right time.     According to ESPN.com,The Yankees are also 17-18 in 1 run games and 4-7 in extra innings this year,Boston is 17-12 in 1 run games and 5-3 in extra innings.NY could have probably used a couple of more "key hits" to be .500 for 1 run games and extra innings games.    Nothing personal,but I think the Red Sox are doing just fine and hopefully will continue to. http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/type/expanded
    Posted by mrmojo1120[/QUOTE]

    These things are usually difficult to figure out, often impossible.  I believe that the RS are also 2nd in come from behind victories.  It just always strikes me as odd that people will come in, accuse the team of something with no evidence, and ignore whatever excelpatory evidence that might be available.

    The NYY run differential is 197, while outs is only 152.  By all rights, they should have a decent lead on us, but we're tied.

    In high leverage situations, the RS OPS is .785, while the NYY are at only .757.  I don't think any of this is overly meaningful, but what scant evidence we have points to the RS being 'more clutch'.  I don't think that exists in real life, but if I had to take a statistical position on it, it would be in our favor.
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : Just a minor point, I think you will find the better a team is offensively, the MORE people they will leve on base, not the fewer.  The more you get on, the more you leave on, that's just math.
    Posted by OhEFFU[/QUOTE]

    Are you trying to use logic on this board?  Good luck with all that.
     
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    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : Look William please be civil, I'm not a Troll, and I've probably been a Red Sox fan since long before you were born......  Just because the Red Sox FO has assembled a virtual All Star team does not mean it's gifted them with a winning attitude. That's a key part of what a manager does. And to me is really Tito's only glaring fault.     Watch any Yankee game. Come the 5 inning and beyond they amp up the pressure from that point forward.  A team with  winning attitude does not leave 10 -15 men on base in close games.  A team with a winning attitued can be counted on to get the key hit at the right time.     Sure our team may win 95+ games this year but so what if all that means is another trip to the post season as a runner up!!    Just because I want the Sox to be the divison winners this year not a wild card team again does not make me a Troll...... Now if you would like to respond to my orginal post as an adult please do....... I would welcome an intelligent discussion on this subject.
    Posted by tetonman50[/QUOTE]

    I don't know how old you are but to make a statement that you have been following baseball, probably since before I was born is quite a leap.  For what it's worth I attended my first sox game in 1973 with David Clyde, the high school phenom who never amounted to much, pitching for the(then)lowly Texas Rangers.

    Additionally the statement "leaving 10-15 men on base" is a bad thing demonstrates utter lack of baseball knowledge.  Teams with weak offenses are never in a position to leave that many men on base and if they were able to have a rare game with many base runners would lack the necassary firepower to drive them home!  This is the number one offense IN BASEBALL! There is only one place to go offensively,  and that is down!  Seriously the "Coma bashing" as well as  this panic mode are utterly ridiculous!
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]John Henry spent a fortune last winter on 2 superstars. He has trusted Coma through all of his misfires. Anyone can manage 90 wins out of a team this loaded. It's the last 10 wins that make champions. I worry that the Coma-lovers will be making excuses in 5 weeks. Fu is a classic example of the kool aid swillers. Hope he's right, but insolence doesn't win games.
    Posted by PetesCall[/QUOTE]

    Is "F u" me?  I've got to change my screenname: I'm part of the Organization of Federated Unitarians.  Anyway, I've been wtaching for 40 years, and two world series wins will definitely make you drink some kool-aid.  PS Please see my discussion on Tito and the pictching staff for more kool-aid.

     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : Are you trying to use logic on this board?  Good luck with all that.
    Posted by saxydogg77[/QUOTE]

    :-) I'm starting to see that.
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]The Coma-lovers are fighting mad...I wish the Sox were! 10-0 on Sept 2nd...not acceptable!
    Posted by PetesCall[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

    IN RESPONSE TO "PETESCALL" , IT IS ACCEPTABLE BECAUSE YOU
    JUST HAVE TO "TAKE IT !! " THE YANKEES AT THIS JUNCTURE OF
    THE SEASON ARE JUST A BETTER TEAM THAN THE RED SOX. THEY
    HAVE A BETTER BULLPEN W. ROBERTSON AND RIVERA AND A BETTER
    LINEUP FROM #'S 1=6. WHEN YOU CAN PUT UP JETER, GRANDERSON,
    TEIXEIRA, CANO, A ROD, SWISHER, JONES, CERVELLI....ETC. THIS
    TRUMPS ANYTHING THE RED SOX CAN PUT UP THERE. THE YANKS
    HAVE THREE GUYS WITH 100+ RBI'S ALREADY. CAN THE RED SOX
    SAY THE SAME ??? AFTER ORTIZ, THERE'S NOTHING THERE !!!!
    AS GOOD AS ELLSBURY IS, GRANDERSON IS BETTER !! CANO IS
    A BETTER HITTER THAN AGON IN THE CLUTCH, AND TEIXEIRA
    HAS MORE HRS THAN ORTIZ, CAN RUN BETTER, CAN SWITCH HIT,
    AND IS YOUNGER. ORTIZ CAN TAKE HIS .313 AVG. AND STICK
    IT IN HIS POCKET! CERVELLI IS A BETTER CATCHER THAN SALTY
    OR TEK, AND THEY STILL HAVE MARTIN. SO...SOX FANS, SIT DOWN..
    RELAX, AND ENJOY THE WILD CARD. THERE'S NO WAY YOU BEAT
    THE YANKS THIS SEASON. CALL ME A TROLL, OR ANYTHING YOU
    WANT...BUT FACE REALITY. BY THE WAY, CC, NOVA AND COLON
    ARE BETTER THAN THE SOX FRONT THREE OF BECKETT, LACKEY,
    AND LESTER. LESTER COULDN'T EVEN BEAT BURNETT !!!
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE] Whether you realize it or not, The Sox have been in slide going downward!! And Francoma just goes with the flow. No imagination nor creative mind. He keeps on playing McDonald, B.A. 190, & trying to get 200 wins for Wakefield! With the team we have nothing less than 1st place should be acceptable. Francoma has been blessed with great teams, so he should get NO credit for anything. That's why he is NOT rated such a great mgr. Another also ran who just manages to survive by being a LACKY to upper management. With this roster we should be perrenial winners, not making excuses that its not important to win the division. We need a decisive & a born leader, which will NEVER be accepted in Boston. Thats why we get a stumbler like FRANCOMA!!!!!  LouV
    Posted by LouV[/QUOTE]
    Excellent post except for the "Francoma". Although I readily admit to using nick names for him in the past. "Sit & Spit" comes to mind.
    The Sox should have been considered a dynasty since 2004. I refuse to accept that some games early in the season don't mean as much as games during crunch time. Saving a reliever for tomorrow, in case he's needed, and not trying to win the current game is also unacceptable !
    I don't have a problem with "managerial moron or buffoon or idiot".
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : I don't know how old you are but to make a statement that you have been following baseball, probably since before I was born is quite a leap.  For what it's worth I attended my first sox game in 1973 with David Clyde, the high school phenom who never amounted to much, pitching for the(then)lowly Texas Rangers. Additionally the statement "leaving 10-15 men on base" is a bad thing demonstrates utter lack of baseball knowledge.  Teams with weak offenses are never in a position to leave that many men on base and if they were able to have a rare game with many base runners would lack the necassary firepower to drive them home!  This is the number one offense IN BASEBALL! There is only one place to go offensively,  and that is down!  Seriously the "Coma bashing" as well as  this panic mode are utterly ridiculous!
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    Well calling me a Troll without having any idea who I am was even a bigger leap on your part so hopefully you'll understand why I might have thought you were still in high school.
    Thanks for at least being civil now.  For what it's worth I have been following the Sox since I was 9 years old in 1957, and when to my first game in 1960. The problem with everyone who likes to point to just stats to make their point like so many who have responded here, is like any politician you can always find one to try to make your arguement around.  I am simply looking at the situation without rose colored glasses.  Right now I simply am concerned how we will stack up in the post season.
       My orginal post I felt made it clear I am not a Tito basher in fact I feel he has done a fantastic job last year and this year managing what has essentially been a MASH unit. I am also not in panic mode since it's clear we will once again make the play offs........   But can you honestly say to me that at this point you feel like we playing the kind of ball we will need to play to get past the first round?  Lastly I may not have the baseball knowledge of so many others on this site but I know enough to know that no matter what the offensive numbers are consistency is what is key. If you win 10 to 2 then lose 3 to 2 you may have out scored your opponent 13 to 4 but your still 1 and 1. 
      Once again NOTTito bashing, he's won two WS for us, and not in panic mode either.  But I am concerned long time fan. 
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : Francona is very successful and he appears to be a player's manager.  Francona's problem is that he may not be a good game day manager.  He often makes moves too late and often seems to give games away.
    Posted by scarhill2000[/QUOTE]

    scar,
      ive been saying that a while. we need a game manager to carry along with tito, or decisions called down form mgt. didnt liek letting farrrel go
     
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    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : Listen to my friends? 75% of them are Yankee fans! NOT!
    Posted by soxdawg08[/QUOTE]
    I have several friends who are Yankee fans, and they're always shaking their heads in amazement when I tell them about the anti-Tito crowd on this board. As one of them said, "These are the same people who thought John Wooden didn't win enough at UCLA."

     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : I have several friends who are Yankee fans, and they're always shaking their heads in amazement when I tell them about the anti-Tito crowd on this board. As one of them said, "These are the same people who thought John Wooden didn't win enough at UCLA."
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]Kind of interesting that petescall finally shows up again after a 10 - 0 loss isn't it?
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : I have several friends who are Yankee fans, and they're always shaking their heads in amazement when I tell them about the anti-Tito crowd on this board. As one of them said, "These are the same people who thought John Wooden didn't win enough at UCLA."
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]


    This is pretty much what we are dealing with.  These people would basically only be satisfied if the sox went 162-0 and did not allow a run all season!
     
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    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : This is pretty much what we are dealing with.  These people would basically only be satisfied if the sox went 162-0 and did not allow a run all season!
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]
    Even then, they'd complain that an opposing runner got in scoring position.
     
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    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : I didn't say the Yankees are lucky...... In fact this year it actually seems all the bad calls are not going their way......... I mearly said that the Sox have a team that seems to me IN GENERAL to lack emotion, as well as the ability to get the key hits when needed to win close games.  I'm not complaining about our record I'm simply pointing out that with a team this good we should not be leaving so many men on base or seeing games like last night where we were embarassed.  Sorry if you take that to mean I don't appreciate that in spite of that they still have one of the best records in baseball.    As far as your pitching match ups No real problem, if we could go with a two man rotation. I'd agree we are about even, but since we can't, I honestly think it's clear the Yankees have a pitching advantage.
    Posted by tetonman50[/QUOTE]

    So what you're saying, is not what you stated, you stated they lack a winning attitude...

    If the Yankees pitching is so much better than ours and there clutch hitting is so much better that ours...please explain how we have an 11-5 edge in the season series and today are separated by 1 in the loss column with 25 game to go...
    Starting pitching in my book is even...unless we get back buccholz then we have the edge...the difference between both staffs is that we know what we're goona get from Beckett and Lester they have questions after CC...

    Sabathia v Lester
    Colon v Beckett
    Garcia v Bedard
    Nova v Lackey
    Hughes v Miller
    Burnett v Wake
    Bullpens
    Rivera v Papelbon
    Robertson v Bard
    Soriano v Aceves
    Logan v Morales
    Ayala v Albers
    Wade v Wheeler

    I don't think either team's middle guys are that much better and No closer has had a better year thisa year than Papelbon who has 1 blown save to Rivera's 5...
     
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    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

    No, Theo Epstein will 'exit' before Terry Francona, possibly in an orderly way 
     
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    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

    I don't know who this Coma guy is but you may be onto something about a change at manager.  They hired some guy Terry Francona a number of years back but someone named Tito is managing now.  Must be because of that ONE game you are bitc...uh... complaining about.

    Great thread. A+.  Pretty sure Theo will be calling you soon with a sweet job offer.  Leave your keyboard and stand by the phone to be ready for the call.
     
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    Re: Tito on Hot Seat

    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat:
    In Response to Re: Tito on Hot Seat : So what you're saying, is not what you stated, you stated they lack a winning attitude... If the Yankees pitching is so much better than ours and there clutch hitting is so much better that ours...please explain how we have an 11-5 edge in the season series and today are separated by 1 in the loss column with 25 game to go... Starting pitching in my book is even...unless we get back buccholz then we have the edge...the difference between both staffs is that we know what we're goona get from Beckett and Lester they have questions after CC... Sabathia v Lester Colon v Beckett Garcia v Bedard Nova v Lackey Hughes v Miller Burnett v Wake Bullpens Rivera v Papelbon Robertson v Bard Soriano v Aceves Logan v Morales Ayala v Albers Wade v Wheeler I don't think either team's middle guys are that much better and No closer has had a better year thisa year than Papelbon who has 1 blown save to Rivera's 5...
    Posted by Beantowne


    Hello Beantown,  Let me be 100% clear on this. I really do feel our team lacks a winning attitude. When I say that I specifically am directing that comment toward our very gifted line up.  It's becoming clear to me in this thread that exactly what constitutes a winning attitude means something very different to people who depend mostly on stats to form their opinions then it does to me. 

    To me it's emotion, it's finding away to get on base any way possible to manufacture a run, hit and run, bottom line, just being able to elevate the intensity a bit to pressure the other team into mistakes.   Honestly it seems to me we get a guy or two on base, and hope for the long ball. I'm not saying we never play small ball but I think we should learn how to do it more.

    As far as Starting pitching match ups in particular against the hated Yankees, I am sorry to all my fellow Sox fans if right at this moment I also feel the Yankees have an edge...... Nova and Colon for example have clearly exceeded expectations of them  Not a huge Yankee edge but a clear one. To me we only currently have two reliable starters and then it's just hope, for a lot of offense....  Maybe that is why I am tending to lean on our offense more.  It's very gifted, and very deep while our current starting beyond two reliable starters is not. 

    Lastly you ask me to explain how our record aaginst the Yankees is so one sided........  Easy!!! we built that great season record against them in the first half of the season, mostly before both teams suffered many key injuries. What were we 8-1 at one point?  In the second half of the season our records are much more even. To me the Yankees as usual have somehow managed to work around, as well as find, better solutions to their key injuries then we have.   If we play the Yankees in Oct. I really think our records against each other in Aug and Sept mean a LOT more then our records in April-July.

    Having said all this all I am trying to suggest is this, as I life long (50+ years) Sox fan am tired of being the division runner up virtually every year, finishing just a few games behind the Yankees.  With the team we have this year there is no reason we can't at least go into the post season as divison winners. And for all the stat lovers the only stat that really matters is the win loss stat!!!!!!!

    I hope I am making myself clear......... Not Tito or Sox bashing at all' or panicing!!!! Nor am I a guy who expected them to go all year without a loss.  Just doing a bit of cheerleading from the sidelines for my team!!!!!!  


     

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