Tito Overmanaging Last Night?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DCSoxFan13. Show DCSoxFan13's posts

    Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?

    In Response to Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night? : The bigger question is, Does Terry(Tito is his father) know why he took Youk out???? 
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    Ummmnnnn....you do realize that Terry Francona's nickname is "Tito" just like his father.  The players call him Tito, announcers who know him often refer to him as Tito, his nickname is listed on multiple sites as Tito, etc.  Your attempt to make fun of previous poster missed the mark. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yoshimi25. Show Yoshimi25's posts

    Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?

    He did the same thing in the previous game  -lifted Tek for Salty - you play the game an inning at a time, not four innings ahead that may never happen.  And had we been on the road, he may not have made the change.  At home, we always have the bottom of the inning to win..and we also have some pop in our lineup in addition to Youk.   Even Crawford has given us two walk-off victories.

    If good teams win in spite of a bad manager, why is it that bad teams with good managers don't win more games?  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?

    Soxdog67 is over-analyzing.  I thought the move was perfect, especially when Aviles stole second and gave Ortiz, Crawford, and I think Saltalamacchia a chance at getting the Sox the lead with Pap already warming up to pitch the 9th. 
    And why in the wide, wide world of sports would Francona deliberately plan for an extra inning games when the Sox are in the middle--actually near the end--of 20 back to back games that already include a 16 inning and a 14 inning game? 

    And, of course, bosox1941 has to chime in with, "he's an idiot anyway, so who cares what he does?"

    This board unfortunately collects fans who honestly believe that they almost always know better than the manager.  Crazy.  With that group, Francona is darned if he does and darned if he doesn't.

    Here's what I honestly don't understand about bosox1941.  He seems, based on his comments over several years, to honestly believe that the manager wins or loses all the games and the players are irrelevant.  And his version of the ideal manager is one who makes lots of decisions every inning because apparently players are incapable of doing the right thing on their own. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?

    In Response to Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?:
    [QUOTE]He did the same thing in the previous game  -lifted Tek for Salty - you play the game an inning at a time, not four innings ahead that may never happen.  And had we been on the road, he may not have made the change.  At home, we always have the bottom of the inning to win..and we also have some pop in our lineup in addition to Youk.   Even Crawford has given us two walk-off victories. If good teams win in spite of a bad manager, why is it that bad teams with good managers don't win more games?  
    Posted by Yoshimi25[/QUOTE]

    Yoshi, not for anything, but comparing the 'Tek/Salty move and Youk/Aviles moves is apples and oranges, for the simple reason that Youk is the team's clean-up hitter and Salty is probably a better hitter than 'Tek.

    As others have pointed out...maybe Youkilis is struggling with the hamstring, and that, in itself, would be a good reason for the move.

    However, it is "my opinion" that taking out the core batters in the line-up (Agon/Youk/Ortiz) for pinch runners while they're sitting on 1B in a tie game is not a good baseball move because if that runner does not score you weaken yourself for the rest of the game...which could go for who knows how long.

    Lastly, and as I mentioned earlier, I am not bashing Tito for the move, it's just that I don't agree with it in a tie game and the runner standing on 1st.

    BTW, we are allowed to have rational opinions here, aren't we?? I say rational because there are a certain few irrational Tito bashers that participate here that bash just for the sake of bashing!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?

    soxdog67, I guess rational is in the eye of the beholder.  Is it, for example, rational to think you are a better manager than the guy with the job, especially when his decision put a man on second with nobody out in the bottom of the 8th with Papelbon warming up in the bullpen?  Plus of course, Francona has recently and consistently taken Youk out of games early when he can.  But you seem to think he should play extra innings whenever possible. 

    I agree you are more rational than bosox1941, who believes an adequate manager is defined as one who never loses a game, but only slightly more rational. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?

    You answered your own question... the fact that Aviles stole second made it a great move. Can you really blame Tito that the next 3 guys didn't knock him in?!?

    And no it wasn't to "rest Youk" for the stretch... this isn't basketball where you can reduce minutes. If you want to rest guys in baseball they need to sit the game out, DH or possibly if its a hot, humid day maybe you take a player out early.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?

    In Response to Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?:
    [QUOTE]soxdog67, I guess rational is in the eye of the beholder.  Is it, for example, rational to think you are a better manager than the guy with the job, especially when his decision put a man on second with nobody out in the bottom of the 8th with Papelbon warming up in the bullpen?  Plus of course, Francona has recently and consistently taken Youk out of games early when he can.  But you seem to think he should play extra innings whenever possible.  I agree you are more rational than bosox1941, who believes an adequate manager is defined as one who never loses a game, but only slightly more rational. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    max, I never said I was a better manager than anybody, however I can still have an opinion and belief that it is not a good move to take the "core guys" out of a tie game when, at the time of the substitution, they are not even in scoring  position. I can remember some extra inning games this season where Agon or Ortiz were taken out for pinch runners in tie games and their bats were not in the line-up in other big situations later.

    Fact is, I thought this way as soon as the move was made so I am not second guessing the manager. But, once again, I say this is MY OPINION and I just wanted to get a handle on what others thought!

    I still stand by what I say here, since the only good reason for the move would be to replace Youk because his hamstring was acting up, otherwise I want his bat in the line-up in a tie game...same goes for Agon and Ortiz.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fenwayjack2. Show fenwayjack2's posts

    Re: Tito Overmanaging Last Night?

    In Response to Tito Overmanaging Last Night?:
    [QUOTE]During the 8th inning of last night's game against the Indians, before Ells walk-off, Tito replaced Youkilis after he walked, with Aviles in a 3-3 game. My opinion of this decision was that it was overmanaging because of the fact that the team loses Youk's bat if the game goes into extra innings. This is despite the fact that Aviles was able to steal 2nd base. My belief is that he should have let Youk stay in the game unless he reached 2nd or 3rd with less than two outs since the odds, in most cases, would be his bat would be needed more if the game extended into extra innings. Ellsbury's walk-off bomb made the matter moot, but I was just wondering if anyone else felt the same as I did? NOTE: I am NOT Tito-bashing, just questioning this one decision.
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    I'm sure he inserted Aviles because Youkilis can't step on a bag without hurting himself.  I would tell Youk to simply trot down the line and gently step on the base.  I'm also fed up with him hurting himself fouling pitches off himself at the plate.
     
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