Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 4:13 PM EDT

    not the team's problem when he shows up his own players and even his coach...

    wtfFFF   can we get rid of this buffoon now? i cant believe i just heard this
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 4:19 PM EDT

    In Response to Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    not the team's problem when he shows up his own players and even his coach... wtfFFF   can we get rid of this buffoon now? i cant believe i just heard this
    Posted by georom4


     If they're addressing it, it's an internal problem in the clubhouse.  I would be willing to bet Lackey will not be on the team next year. Good news already
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 4:22 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    In Response to Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem :  If they're addressing it, it's an internal problem in the clubhouse.  I would be willing to bet Lackey will not be on the team next year. Good news already
    Posted by J-BAY


    I think Lackey can be effective out in the AL West again or in the NL
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 4:23 PM EDT

    no i watched them live say that we dont know what we are talking about and lackey is very well respected on the squad....i kid u not


    i shut it off right there - these two guys are worse than politicians...i hope they are both gone....and tito's response to the question was downright hostile and condescending
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 4:28 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    In Response to Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem :  If they're addressing it, it's an internal problem in the clubhouse.  I would be willing to bet Lackey will not be on the team next year. Good news already
    Posted by J-BAY
    Total misread JBay. Tito and Theo weren't "addressing it". The media askied the question if it was an issue and both the GM and the field manager says it isn't a problem amongst Lackey's teammates. Theo went further to say that while it may not appear that way when Lackey is rolling his eyes on the field, his teammates like him and he is a very solid part of the clubhouse.

    Tito is alluding there were clubhouse issues and more or less that guys did not have each others backs on the field as much a he would have liked or they had in past groups. He also said that they tried to address it.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 4:31 PM EDT

    Sounds like nothing will be changed for next year.  That collapse was for nothing.


    Or, they are trying to protect what little trade value Lackey may have.

     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 4:34 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem : Total misread JBay. Tito and Theo weren't "addressing it". The media askied the question if it was an issue and both the GM and the field manager says it isn't a problem amongst Lackey's teammates. Theo went further to say that while it may not appear that way when Lackey is rolling his eyes on the field, his teammates like him and he is a very solid part of the clubhouse. Tito is alluding there were clubhouse issues and more or less that guys did not have each others backs on the field as much a he would have liked or they had in past groups. He also said that they tried to address it.
    Posted by fivekatz


     Francona always has the players back. true or not, his ERA speaks for itself and think he'll be gone one way or the other. my guess is the clubhous issues are the homegrown players; pedrioa, youk, lester and ellsbury are making much less than the free agents they've brought in, are performing to expectations, while they are not. that would fracture any clubhouse.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 4:37 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem :  Francona always has the players back. true or not, his ERA speaks for itself and think he'll be gone one way or the other. my guess is the clubhous issues are the homegrown players like pedrioa, youk, lester and ellsbury are the heart and soul of the team, making much less than the free agents theyve brought in and are performing to expectations. that would fracture any clubhouse.
    Posted by J-BAY


    Our staff can do much better if Lackey was replaced.  I still say this is all for future talk regarding trade possibilities to make John look better.  I'm sure his wife having cancer and the divorce could also come into play.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 4:54 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem :  Francona always has the players back. true or not, his ERA speaks for itself and think he'll be gone one way or the other. my guess is the clubhous issues are the homegrown players like pedrioa, youk, lester and ellsbury are the heart and soul of the team, making much less than the free agents they've brought in and are performing to expectations while they are not. that would fracture any clubhouse.
    Posted by J-BAY
    I think you are mixing issues. Neither guy in the Q&A said Lackey's ERA was in any way acceptable. They were quite clear that they had to spend a lot of time assessing and changing how both Crawford and Lackey perform. Physically, mentally and fundamentally.

    They only were stating that the fans and media are far more fixated on Lackey's demonstrative nature on the field.

    I am listen to WEEI right now and the media fuels this market. The Big Show took physically to be out of shape (could it be his elbow is messed up folks??)

    If you listen to these guys and read between the lines, there are issues with some of the players, from work ethic to team citizenship. This isn't an organization that just throws anybody under the bus. The hard part of the market in the absence of throwing the guys under the bus people will just spend hours interpreting every detail any way they want. And WEEI's Ordway is the worst of that bunch. 

       
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 5:03 PM EDT

    If you can find someone willing to take Lackey    do it..

    He was out of shape gasping for air  half the time.  He'd  be mid inning  open mouthed and struggling like a fish out of water.

    In starts where he did not have his best stuff  (most of them) it was just a matter of time for something to go wrong and for him to implode mentally.

    He also sounds like the guy we want to wear pink  next year for Susan B Komen  cancer research...


    There were problems in the club house  and you could see it on the bench  when cameras showed the sames players sitting alone and same  guys together...   Maybe  some wanted Aceves  to start  maybe some thought Sox   should have  dumped DMac and not Cameron......maybe some were upset the front office did not go after someone other than Bedard  who never looked comfortanle any time on camera.
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 5:09 PM EDT

    bottom line this press conference was a sham...they arent fooling anyone about Lackey...no amount of spin can fool any mlb team into taking him...everyone knows he's the horses azz on and off the mound.....what i saw at 4pm was classic cya mode and it's disgusting....heads(plural) should roll and it is obvious where is should begin
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 5:13 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem : I think you are mixing issues. Neither guy in the Q&A said Lackey's ERA was in any way acceptable. They were quite clear that they had to spend a lot of time assessing and changing how both Crawford and Lackey perform. Physically, mentally and fundamentally. They only were stating that the fans and media are far more fixated on Lackey's demonstrative nature on the field. I am listen to WEEI right now and the media fuels this market. The Big Show took physically to be out of shape (could it be his elbow is messed up folks??) If you listen to these guys and read between the lines, there are issues with some of the players, from work ethic to team citizenship. This isn't an organization that just throws anybody under the bus. The hard part of the market in the absence of throwing the guys under the bus people will just spend hours interpreting every detail any way they want. And WEEI's Ordway is the worst of that bunch.     
    Posted by fivekatz



    Jerry Remy said this week he feels some of the problem is players are out of shape. They are given a work out program to follow in the off season, but who knows if theyre doing it until they show up for ST. he sees players everyday in the weight room but doesnt know if theyre all doing what they should be or enough. Epstein said last night there were internal issues that he was aware of and would be addressed.

     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 5:22 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem : Jerry Remy said this week he feels some of the problem is players are out of shape. They are given a work out program to follow in the off season, but who knows if theyre doing it until they show up for ST. he sees players everyday in the weight room but doesnt know if theyre all doing what they should be or enough. Epstein said last night there were internal issues that he was aware of and would be addressed.
    Posted by J-BAY
    I get that. But it isn't logical to just connect that dot to Lackey.

    Plenty of other stuff with Lackey. Head screwed on side ways with off field issues, the guy could have had elbow issues (he had a cortisone shot this year), mechanics lot's of stuff. What all that is who knows. Since conditioning never was brought up before this year so loudly, just maybe it is newer guys??? (Jenks, Albers, Wheeler, Crawford).

    I am not saying conditioning might not be amongst Lackey's issues, I am just saying an absence of hard evidence isn't stopping any one saying it was. I can't prove that his elbow is problematic BTW, I think it was but i would not state IT WAS.   
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 5:30 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem : I get that. But it isn't logical to just connect that dot to Lackey. Plenty of other stuff with Lackey. Head screwed on side ways with off field issues, the guy could have had elbow issues (he had a cortisone shot this year), mechanics lot's of stuff. What all that is who knows. Since conditioning never was brought up before this year so loudly, just maybe it is newer guys??? (Jenks, Albers, Wheeler, Crawford). I am not saying conditioning might not be amongst Lackey's issues, I am just saying an absence of hard evidence isn't stopping any one saying it was. I can't prove that his elbow is problematic BTW, I think it was but i would not state IT WAS.   
    Posted by fivekatz


    sorry katz but more than a few of us were shouting about our lack of conditioning for over two seasons....that lax aspect of our team comnes directly from our manager and enabled by our GM who is the real brains behind this sabermetrics crapola that takes initiative and responsibility out of the hands of the manager and relies on stats/charts.
     

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    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 5:32 PM EDT

    As for conditioning I say put everybody on the same program as CC sabathia and Miguel Cabrera.

    All kidding aside, how many of you were blasting RS MVP Ellsbury for going to AZ last year?
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 5:39 PM EDT

    Lackey won't be easy to peddle and he's signed through 2014.     The Lackey we see is as good as he'll ever get.    As it is, John Henry has lost some serious playoff revenue for 2 years in succession and he has no interest in eating any of Lackey's contract.
     

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    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 5:43 PM EDT

    What's he supposed to say - Lackey is a cancer on the team and needs to go?  Doesn't that pretty much set up a situation where either Lackey or Tito would have to go?

    When was the last time any player or coach publicly criticized a player?  The last time I recall hearing criticism was by Danny Ainge about Rondo's level of maturity.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 6:00 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    What's he supposed to say - Lackey is a cancer on the team and needs to go?  Doesn't that pretty much set up a situation where either Lackey or Tito would have to go? When was the last time any player or coach publicly criticized a player?  The last time I recall hearing criticism was by Danny Ainge about Rondo's level of maturity.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover
    Spot on BTW. I happen to think players faces are a bigger deal in this market than they have been with players and the team. Body language and that kind of detail gets a lot of attention in Boston.

    But I bet the RS form Theo to Tito do have issues with John Lackey, just not the faces. I don't think they like it BTW, they just know it is there and was when they signed him.

    I bet they are plenty of concerned with Crawford and Lackey.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ct-pitcher. Show ct-pitcher's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 6:03 PM EDT

    In Response to Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    not the team's problem when he shows up his own players and even his coach... wtfFFF   can we get rid of this buffoon now? i cant believe i just heard this
    Posted by georom4


    Did everyone hear Jim Rice last night [likely around 12.30am] talking about how the Red Sox clubhouse had become a "spa," and that people needed to start treating it like they were coming to "work?"  He was uncharacteristically candid and direct about his view of what the clubhouse atmosphere was like.
     

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    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 6:11 PM EDT

    I heard that ct and it stuck with me.........he said it when TC was questioning if Tito were to lose his job and who would there be to replace him - Jim Rice then said it would need to be someone to come in and basically set a tone right off, that the ball players need to understand that coming to the ball park is coming to work, not coming to a spa.  That's how I remember it, as least.   Like I said, it stuck with me, but overall it seemed to have gone rather unnoticed - I haven't really heard much about it.  
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 6:34 PM EDT

    J-Bay:

    I hope you are right.  But how in the world are they going to unload his (I dunno the amount) but 14-16 million per year that they owe him for the next 3 seasons.  Even if paid 30-50% of his salary no body would take him.  He was the worst pitcher in 4/5 categories ...something like 97th of 97 AND....AND  he led the all those in runs support.  Anyone else is 20 game winner.  The only hope is that NL team would take him as many going from the AL to NL can make the jump.  
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ct-pitcher. Show ct-pitcher's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 6:43 PM EDT

    In Response to Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    not the team's problem when he shows up his own players and even his coach... wtfFFF   can we get rid of this buffoon now? i cant believe i just heard this
    Posted by georom4


    Well, try this.  The worst kept secret in NY is how disappointed the Yankees are with AJ Burnett.  Maybe the solution is to trade Lackey to the Yankees for Burnett and give them both a new venue. How much worse off would each team be?
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 7:17 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    In Response to Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem : Well, try this.  The worst kept secret in NY is how disappointed the Yankees are with AJ Burnett.  Maybe the solution is to trade Lackey to the Yankees for Burnett and give them both a new venue. How much worse off would each team be?
    Posted by ct-pitcher
    It is probably the one way neither guy would get a "fresh start" and both teams would be scared to death that one of the two would come back to haunt them.

    Personally I think the RS aren't going to get better value in salary swap right now. They sadly have to try and get this guy right to losely quote Theo, "physically, mentally and fundementally".

    Zambrano, Zito or Burnett is just kicking the can... 
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 8:24 PM EDT

    Bottom line is he has to go....HAS TO.  Funny thing is all those years he was the #2 or 3 with the Angels, whenever he was pitching I always felt relieved as in he's not so tough and we certainly can get to him which we did.  We didn't light him up but we got to him.  He's just a mess now.  His personal situation simply took away whatever edge he needed to pitch at this level.  He'll never be an ace.  But he should be what they thought they were getting ......a serviceable innings eater.  If he comes back he's fixable, I just don't like the guy though. 
     

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    Re: Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem

    posted at 9/29/2011 8:29 PM EDT

    In Response to Tito says Lackey rolling his eyes/showing up his teammates is our problem:
    not the team's problem when he shows up his own players and even his coach... wtfFFF   can we get rid of this buffoon now? i cant believe i just heard this
    Posted by georom4


    Anyone who has worked in any job that involves dealing with the public knows that what is said to the public usually bears little resemblance to what is said in private. There is such a thing called need-to-know. I'd be surprised if the powers that be haven't already made moves to get rid of SLackey. Then everyone will hear about it.