Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 4:19 PM EDT
- freediro
- Posts: 5503
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First off I rarely call for Tito's head after mistakes like some do here, but I also find many of his managing moves puzzling.
Saturdays game is Tito's latest moves where it seems like a reasonable decision but not the most intelligent one. Sure Paps was warmed and we have a day off Monday, but even my own eyes have seen that Paps is not the same time of pitcher in non save situations.
Sure plenty of other things happened to cause the meltdown, but I would like to know how many of you out there actually approved of Paps coming in. I know I didn't, you have to bring some one else from the pen in and then if it becomes a save situation you bring Paps in.
Thoughts, reactions and emotional outbursts are welcome.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 4:28 PM EDT
- mrmojo1120
- Posts: 6769
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While it's easy to second guess a decision and say I would have done it differently,I would have done the same thing Tito did.If Paplebon had thrown strikes and Pedroia didn't pull a Renteria,there would be nothing to talk about and it would have been called a reasonable decision.It wouldn't have been questioned.
If you want to place blame,which I rather not do personally,place it where it belongs,on Papelbon and Pedroia.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 4:39 PM EDT
- NUSoxFan
- Posts: 659
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We see Mo used just like Paps was, warmed up because the game was close, then put in when the lead was extended because he was warm, if your closer is ready you use him, its just baseball mentality now, today's fiasco boils down to the players, not the manager.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 4:42 PM EDT
- tcal2-
- Posts: 10853
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I think the correct move would of been to save him for tomorrow. I honestly don't see the logic behind putting him in today in a non-save situation.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 4:49 PM EDT
- freediro
- Posts: 5503
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Not to get this off topic, but as the game went on Tito used a pinch-runner for A-Gon and then Reddick who pinch ran for Papi earlier didn't even get to bat he was pinch-hit for Cameron.
That means not only were the 2 hottest hitters out of the line-up, but now there aren't any men left on the bench incase something happens. Great managing Tito....
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 5:21 PM EDT
, but even my own eyes have seen that Paps is not the same time of pitcher in non save situations. Posted by freediro
seems like mgrs won't admit it
but over the yrs i have seen the same thing with mo
I'm guessing PA means this yr
PeteAbe Pete Abraham
Papelbon has a 2.38 ERA in save situations, 4.50 otherwise.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 5:44 PM EDT
- freediro
- Posts: 5503
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lets also add having Cameron bunt with 2 strikes in the 12th, to the list of managerial mistakes this game
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:04 PM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
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You only PR for your DH or Best Hitter when they represent the tying run........I knew that would come back and haunt them...
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:19 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34524
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They are haunted now?
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:23 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher:
lets also add having Cameron bunt with 2 strikes in the 12th, to the list of managerial mistakes this game
Posted by freediro
Cameron could have been on his own there. I'll never blame a manager for a professional baseball player not being able to get a bunt down.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:24 PM EDT
- Hfxsoxnut
- Posts: 8447
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Tito normally does go to Papelbon in the 9th with a 4-run lead. First time it bit him that I can remember.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:31 PM EDT
- ALaGatorAL
- Posts: 2970
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The problem with bringing paps in a non save situation will show up more tomorrow when they might actually need him and he will be unavailable because he has thrown 2 days in a row. It seems like Tito talks out of both sides of his mouth at the same time. Just let me know which is it Win Today or Keep people fresh for October ??
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:38 PM EDT
- dannycater
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Papelbon may get suspended, but with that said, I too have always been suspicious when he is brought into "sure wins" or non-saves. It always does seem like that's when he has his implosions. Not when it's 5-4, bases loaded and gets out of the jam for a save. Can't tell if he just doesn't focus, feels the game is already in the bag, or what, but he seems to pitch poorly in the non-save situations. By the way notice how Wakefield never came into this game? Anything to keep him off the hill is Tito's mantra. It worked today, he just threw practically everyone else.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:40 PM EDT
Ladies and Gentlemen Please think a moment......
What was the score when he started warming up?
Was it not 5-3 a SAVE situation?
So why would you not bring him in after having him warm up for a full half inning?
He was ready and no one else was.
Warming up as he did might make him unavailable tomorrow any way.
It had nothing to do with the 4 run lead.
Other teams do the same thing.
You do not have your closer warm up not to be used.
If they had not scored it was a save situation he was warmed up and ready.
Simple if you look at it objectively.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:47 PM EDT
- Hfxsoxnut
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For the record, this is the 6th time this year Papelbon has been brought in with a 4-run lead. In the previous 5 times he gave up a total of 1 run.
Apr 10, 28 May 7, 22, 27
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:53 PM EDT
- fivekatz
- Posts: 5134
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Part of what we never consider is that the guy is already warmed up after working last night and that work alone makes it hard to use him the next day in early June. So rather than just put him in the cooler for tomorrow plus the day off I suppose Tito figured it was better to let him get in some live work. I don;t like how high leverage guys pitch in low leverage situations either.
But if the 2B doesn't boot a tailor made double play ball Papelbon get out of the inning. Suppose Tito should have anticipated that too.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:53 PM EDT
- sgtnull
- Posts: 90
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damned if he does - damned if he doesn't.
Tito can't actually pitch for paps, so the blame has to go to paps. if he has trouble pitching in non-save situations, he needs to work on it. and working on it means pitching in those situations.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 7:57 PM EDT
- ALaGatorAL
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Jim, You don't bring him in because You may need him tomorrow !! These are the Red Sox guidelines not mine. Because he pitched today he would not be available for tomorrow, the ole 3 day Paps rule, or is it the number of pitchs rule, or is it the we need guys fresh for Oct rule, maybe it's the getting the guy up in the bullpen rule. To tell you the truth I can see why Francona gets so confused !!
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 8:15 PM EDT
- sgtnull
- Posts: 90
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wasn't Jenks brought in to also close some games?
maybe he is available tomorrow?
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 8:19 PM EDT
- ALaGatorAL
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Jenks also Pitched today !! Two Innings I believe so he probably won't be ready tomorrow either !! LOL... but who knows maybe the Sox will waive some of these many Pitching and playing rules to actually try and win a game in May ?? Only time will tell.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 8:22 PM EDT
- sgtnull
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a win is a win.
i will go with the two time world series winning manager.
many here complaine dthat Salty was a waste. he is coming around.
they complained about Crawford. he is coming around.
they complained about Jacoby - he may be the best lead off hitter in baseball right now.
etc, etc, etc...
Bruins just started btw.
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 8:23 PM EDT
gator please re read what I wrote since you just said the opposite of what I actually did say
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 8:30 PM EDT
- ALaGatorAL
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I do agree with the notion that Tito don't pitch for Paps idea and that if there is a problem with him pitching in those situations then it's up to Paps to get it done not Tito, but here is the problem with that... Tito is well reknown for his ability to work with his "All Star Ego's", In fact I would have to agree that he seems to be quite good at that part of his job, and bringing in a closer in a non save situation seems to scream non respect. 4 run leads are for some mop up guy, not the "Talented" Closer on this team. I can see why Pap's has problems with these situations why can't Tito ?? Don't tell me he's the boss and Pap's the employee thing cause I will bust a gut laughing. Either he's a player's coach or not ? I mean he is definately not a field manager so if he is starting to lose it as a Player's guy then why have him around period?
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 8:42 PM EDT
- ALaGatorAL
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In Response to
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher:
gator please re read what I wrote since you just said the opposite of what I actually did say
Posted by JimfromFlorida
Jim I read your post and I'm sorry I don't agree with it. I don't care if he was warming up, so was Wheeler. Why was Wheeler up, In case they scored another 9 runs?? Once again it seems like pretty simple stuff until the Francona lovers introduce all kinds of scenerios. The Closer should come in games when the team is up by 4 or more, NEVER !! Well, I say never but maybe there are times, Like if it's the last game of the World Series, it's the last game before the All Star break, and maybe, I guess, if he hasn't pitched in a week to get some "Work In". I can't tell you what runs through Tito's head when he doe's it but I do know he won't be available for tomorrow because he was used today in a 4 run meltdown !!
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher
posted at 6/4/2011 11:12 PM EDT
- Joebreidey
- Posts: 13531
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In Response to
Re: Tito's Latest Head Scratcher:
lets also add having Cameron bunt with 2 strikes in the 12th, to the list of managerial mistakes this game
Posted by freediro
Did Tito make that call?
