To all those who bashed me and called me out

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dollkuhn. Show dollkuhn's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    andrewmitch,
    I was beginning to think I was the one "off base" when I knew what you knew....games lost in April bite you in the butt at game 162.  I was not waving the pom poms all year either for the same reasons you so clearly stated .Let's hope   our famous next year chant will be realized.
    Have a great winter!
    Cool
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]andrewmitch, I was beginning to think I was the one "off base" when I knew what you knew....games lost in April bite you in the butt at game 162.  I was not waving the pom poms all year either for the same reasons you so clearly stated .Let's hope   our famous next year chant will be realized. Have a great winter!
    Posted by dollkuhn[/QUOTE]

    You also!  :)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out : Two things are amazing here sir, one the stats and two that you took the time to dig it up. I had been thinking about it for a week and the more I saw people continue to say we had the best offense I recalled all those high scoring games - it was these games that carried our pitching during the summer. The fact is that our pitching was not much better in July than September. Thanks for the extra work,  I should ad my point was that if you often need to score 8+ a game to secure a "W" than your team is already screwed.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]
     Thanks, Burrito. As much as I'd like to take the honor for doing the research....it wasn't hard at all; baseballreference.com, go to the Sox results and click the header for runs, it sorts by totals, the rest was easy.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    I was right on TB winning 90-92 games.

    I was right on this year's AL WC winning 94 or less games.

    I was right on calling for a Kelly, Rizzo and Bowden for AGon deal back in Sept. (I missed by Bowden).

    I was right that AGon would extend in April.

    I was right about how much he'd extend for withing $1M.

    I was right about AGon not being effected by the injury.

    I was right about  the Sox being better on offense this year despite losing VMart & Beltre.

    I was right about the Salty/Vtek combo coming close to last year's combined catcher OPS. (.737 in 2011 to .793)

    I was right that Ellsbury would have a big year.

    I was right abour CC being at least $50M overpaid.

    I was right about Scutaro having a season somewhere between his 2009 and 2010 numbers.

    I was right about BHall not being worth keeping.

    I was right about JD Drew being a bum.

    I was right about moving Youk to 3B would be dangerous to his health.

    I was right about Pedey bouncing back strong.

    I was right about us needing more starter depth.

    I was right about the silly clown going oh for 64 this year.

    I was right about a few more things, but so what.

    I was wrong about a lot too, and so has everyone esle.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    You can't say you were right about 0-6 when the Red Sox were in first place in August.  They recovered from 0-6.  It is just bad logic.

    I hated Drew's contract in early 2007 as did lots of people, so no big deal.

    Way to early to call Beckett extension a mistake.  September was bad but writing him off b/c of a bad month is stupid.

    Lester has pitched well in many big games in his career, including game 162 this year.  Your Lester point is a desperate reach.

    Theo acquired Morales right?  I guess this point hinges on your definition of bona fide.

    The Vmart/Beltre vs. Agone point is foolish.  You may be right eventually or you may be wrong but saying either right now is stupid. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out :  Thanks, Burrito. As much as I'd like to take the honor for doing the research....it wasn't hard at all; baseballreference.com, go to the Sox results and click the header for runs, it sorts by totals, the rest was easy.
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]


    Thats just how lazy I am Laughing I do love that site though, clean and easy to use.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]You can't say you were right about 0-6 when the Red Sox were in first place in August.  They recovered from 0-6.  It is just bad logic. I hated Drew's contract in early 2007 as did lots of people, so no big deal. Way to early to call Beckett extension a mistake.  September was bad but writing him off b/c of a bad month is stupid. Lester has pitched well in many big games in his career, including game 162 this year.  Your Lester point is a desperate reach. Theo acquired Morales right?  I guess this point hinges on your definition of bona fide. The Vmart/Beltre vs. Agone point is foolish.  You may be right eventually or you may be wrong but saying either right now is stupid. 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    The 0-6 record - those games count, yes they bounced back but it was temporary....again 2 things there, first 6 games down in the loss column that can never be recovered and 2 - we saw just how bad they could be

    Re:  Beckett - the extension was singed in April of 2010 and look at how bad 2010 was....2011 looked good until he turned out to be a major attitude problem plus I just don't think he is "right" or ever will w/ his mechanics/stuff

    Lester is clearly not a big game pitcher

    Morarles is a border-line bonda fide lefty and I believe that Rich Hill WOULD have been but they both fell short

    Only time will tell w/ Agone vs Beltre/VMart so perhaps we should wait on this one.  In 5 years AGone should be better than both o them combined but what about for the first 4 years? 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    "Young starter" is your phrase not mine. I said "a good pitcher." You might be more careful with terms like "drivel" until you can demonstrate that you know what you are calling drivel. Next time you quote, put the key phrase, in this case "good pitcher," in red to remind yourself of what the other person was careful to say before you start commenting on it.
    You might have slightly more credibilty if you were that careful, but not enough to justify calling people "delusional," certainly not enough to declare that your answer is so "obvious" as to categorically rule out all other possibilities. The term "no brainer" suggests a belief that all brains worth counting as brains are on your side of the issue.
    I guess you do. Pity.

    Plenty of words and very little substance, much like a mealy mouthed politcian/lawyer.

    How many teams have let a proven quality starter (even with ups and downs) under 30 go to FA or get traded in the last three years?

    The best SP allowed to go to FA:
    2011/12
    CJ Wilson 31
    Buehrle 33

    2010/11
    Lee 32 (then)

    2009/10
    Bedard 31  torn labrum
    Harden 28  signed 1yr @$6.5m w/ Tex
    Lackey (I wish I had a time machine)
    Pavano (been there done that)
    Pineiro 31  signed 2 yr @ $8m LAA b/c oft injured

    I would say this list clearly demonstrates that at 29 years old (entering the 2010 season) coming off of a 212 inning/ 17 and 6 /3.85 ERA  2009, Beckett (with Lee) would have been a very rare top FA SP.  That is three FA classes bereft of top end SP.  In an age where pitching is strong almost every team has locked up every solid starter near 30 years old.  Which is exactly what the Sox did with Lester, Beckett and very likely with Buchholz.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from marstan. Show marstan's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    I had very similar views to "andrew mitch" and no one ever
    responded to me . This was either because the moderator
    decided not to air pejorative comments regarding the Sox
    management, or similar comments had already been made.
    "Marstan" was my screen name, and I said that Francona
    was a poor field manager for several years, and that we
    fielded a team, devoid of power bats from the right hand
    side. But...of course...many of the gutless posters who
    apologize for mediocrity failed to respond.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out :  The Sox scored 875 total runs for the year, in 40 games scoring at least 8 runs, their record was 39-1. Deduct 110 runs, for games over 8 runs, and you get 765 runs. Last year by comparison, they scored 818 runs. Were 30-5 in high scoring games. Deduct 53 runs from games over 8, and you finish at... 765.  Burrito, this is amazing. They had more high scoring games, piled on more in those games, and garnered one more win for all the fireworks...
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]

    Their offense was extremely good in 2010 as well.  They were number 1 in OPS in MLB in 2010.  Their ERA was 22nd in 2010. What are you missing here?  The offense was not the problem in 2010 or in 2011.  You keep making comparisons that show you simply don't know what is going on.  



     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out :  The Sox scored 875 total runs for the year, in 40 games scoring at least 8 runs, their record was 39-1. Deduct 110 runs, for games over 8 runs, and you get 765 runs. Last year by comparison, they scored 818 runs. Were 30-5 in high scoring games. Deduct 53 runs from games over 8, and you finish at... 765.  Burrito, this is amazing. They had more high scoring games, piled on more in those games, and garnered one more win for all the fireworks...
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]

    The only way these stats mean anything is if you do it for every team and do a comparison. Not trying to be a jerk just pointing out the obvious.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out : Their offense was extremely good in 2010 as well.  They were number 1 in OPS in MLB in 2010.  Their ERA was 22nd in 2010. What are you missing here?  The offense was not the problem in 2010 or in 2011.  You keep making comparisons that show you simply don't know what is going on.  
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]


    Oh I see. So if a team were to score 100 runs in one game and than 0 the next you would say how great our stats looked being 100 runs over two games. That is the nursery school flash card example, hope you get it.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    Scored 3 runs or less over 9 innings 2011:

    Sox  54 times
    NYY  47

    Record in one run games

    2011
     
    NYY  21 - 24
      Bos  19 - 19

    2010
      NYY  20 - 19
      Bos  22 - 26
     
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out : Oh I see. So if a team were to score 100 runs in one game and than 0 the next you would say how great our stats looked being 100 runs over two games. That is the nursery school flash card example, hope you get it.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    You can keep trying but most folks just love to look at averages; probably never even heard of standard deviation or multicollinearity.  What can you do really?  It's extremely hard to talk to people whose only goal in coming here is to bash others in an attempt to make themselves feel better. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    One really needs to do both observational analysis (watching every inning of every game) and advanced statistical analysis. 

    The folks who watch their 3 games a week and then look at averages will never get the entire story and will therefore, be grossly mislead.

    I am not saying their offense was bad but it wasn't as good as most made it out to be.  And the pitching, was just horrible.  Sure some ERA's were good but that again, that's an AVERAGE.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out : The 0-6 record - those games count, yes they bounced back but it was temporary....again 2 things there, first 6 games down in the loss column that can never be recovered and 2 - we saw just how bad they could be Re:  Beckett - the extension was singed in April of 2010 and look at how bad 2010 was....2011 looked good until he turned out to be a major attitude problem plus I just don't think he is "right" or ever will w/ his mechanics/stuff Lester is clearly not a big game pitcher Morarles is a border-line bonda fide lefty and I believe that Rich Hill WOULD have been but they both fell short Only time will tell w/ Agone vs Beltre/VMart so perhaps we should wait on this one.  In 5 years AGone should be better than both o them combined but what about for the first 4 years? 
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Saying the Red Sox didn't recover from 0-6 because of how things ended is like saying the United States never recovered from the Great Depression because of this latest financial collapse.  Both did recover and were on top.  (Sidenote, I'm not trying to start a political discussion!!!)

    I'm no Beckett apologist right now, his September was junk but I'm not willing to right him off.  I'm not going to speculate on who or who wasn't a clubhouse problem, I will agree that Josh has shown a propesnsity to get fat.

    Big game pitcher is such an overused term.  C.C. has a terrible October history minus 2009.  Cliff Lee has been hit or miss in October.  Everyone's darling Verlander spotted the Yanks a 2-0 lead, that is not the stuff of a "big game" pitcher. Pettitte, who has the most playoff wins all time, also layed plenty of October eggs.  Lester nearly single handedly won the last post-season series that this franchise has won, that counts for something.

    Agree on Agone/Beltre/Vmart point.  In hindsight, signing Beltre for this year, playing Youk at first might have been the better play.  Could have made a push for Prince or Pujols or Agone this offseason and used one of them Youk/Beltre in a 3B/1b/DH rotation, would have saved the prospects Agone cost.  I really like Vmart but I can see the logic in not wanting to pay him to basically DH.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out : Saying the Red Sox didn't recover from 0-6 because of how things ended is like saying the United States never recovered from the Great Depression because of this latest financial collapse.  Both did recover and were on top.  (Sidenote, I'm not trying to start a political discussion!!!) I'm no Beckett apologist right now, his September was junk but I'm not willing to right him off.  I'm not going to speculate on who or who wasn't a clubhouse problem, I will agree that Josh has shown a propesnsity to get fat. Big game pitcher is such an overused term.  C.C. has a terrible October history minus 2009.  Cliff Lee has been hit or miss in October.  Everyone's darling Verlander spotted the Yanks a 2-0 lead, that is not the stuff of a "big game" pitcher. Pettitte, who has the most playoff wins all time, also layed plenty of October eggs.  Lester nearly single handedly won the last post-season series that this franchise has won, that counts for something. Agree on Agone/Beltre/Vmart point.  In hindsight, signing Beltre for this year, playing Youk at first might have been the better play.  Could have made a push for Prince or Pujols or Agone this offseason and used one of them Youk/Beltre in a 3B/1b/DH rotation, would have saved the prospects Agone cost.  I really like Vmart but I can see the logic in not wanting to pay him to basically DH.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]
    Excellent analogy. In fact, whole post is right on.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    Do you really think these united states of America ever "recovered" from the Great Depression?

    Because if you do, I've got a bridge to sell you and it ain't the one the Theo has been building!!!!!!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]Do you really think these united states of America ever "recovered" from the Great Depression? Because if you do, I've got a bridge to sell you and it ain't the one the Theo has been building!!!!!!
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    You clearly ignored my sidenote but yes I think being the wealthiest country on the planet for 2/3 of a century would justify recovery.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out : You clearly ignored my sidenote but yes I think being the wealthiest country on the planet for 2/3 of a century would justify recovery.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    That's what the delusional believe

    The Great Depression helped to transform this nation into the mess it is today, ever hear of the New Deal?  All old ways out, new ways in.  The great depression was a pre-text for getting a very specific agenda passed.  Good-bye gold standard (at least partially at the time but paving the way for 100%), hello fiat currency, good-bye self-sufficiency, hello welfare, good-bye Republic, Hello Democracy/Collectivism/Socialism/Tyranny, etc etc etc not to mention all the new EO's and bills that were passed during that time.....And I am guessing you aren't aware that FDR stole all of our gold either?  He made it illegal for WE THE PEOPLE to own GOLD - ie WEALTH (which is why I laugh at your comment about us being the wealthiest nation on earth)....Yes, he "compensated" for it but it was pennies on the dollar and, once it was STOLEN (yes, because we had no choice, it was INVOLUNTARY) the price of gold doubled overnight.  That's theft of a very high magnitude.

    The fact there was a "boom" in the 50 and 60's was just a temporary illusion.  OK perhaps compared to other nations we had more but if we are NOT able to OWN OUR LAND (ie no property taxes) and not have to contibue to welfare and could have kept our gold, etc etc that would be true wealth.  You see, wealth, by definition, means that you can pass something down from generation to generation and that you didn't have to worry about living from paycheck to paycheck.  Can you pass "wealth" down from generation to generation?  Of course not.  Because it is not yours.  It is the governments first.  Then take it and then tell you what % of it you can keep/pass down.  That ain't wealth.  The most basic principle of Wealth is ownership and you do not own ANYTHING.  Nothing.  Everything you think you "own" is either taxed or will be taxes or must be registered and/or licensed (you can research the definition of license on your own but essentially means you do not own, you just have a usage privilage but you can not break any part of the contract of you pay fines/go to jail).  Therefore, you can never be truly weathly.

    NO OWNERSHIP = NO WEALTH

    Another important pillar of wealth is being able to store it.  How can you store money if, as a result of just printing more, there is constant inflation?  IE your dollar today will only be worth a quarter in the near future.  No real money = no real weath.

    Now if you want to say that we were able to enjoy a booming work force and pay for toys with whatever money we had left over after it was taken from us, then I will certainly agree with you there.

    But make no mistake about it - our economy has been based on DEBT since 1913.  How can you be wealthy if your entire system is based on DEBT? (ie you do not own something if there is a LIEN on it...ever hear of UNALIENABLE?  it means it can not be taken away.  ie you own it.  if something is LIENABLE you do not own it because it can be taken away)

    But that's OK believe what you want.  Sorry, but you can not change history.  If you want to get "past" the great depression you have to have all of those bills and supreme court rulings (thanks to FDR, the father of modern Socialism in America) overturned.

    Just like the Sox can not get past their 0-6 start; unless you can erase those 6 losses from the standings forever.......
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]"Young starter" is your phrase not mine. I said "a good pitcher." You might be more careful with terms like "drivel" until you can demonstrate that you know what you are calling drivel. Next time you quote, put the key phrase, in this case "good pitcher," in red to remind yourself of what the other person was careful to say before you start commenting on it. You might have slightly more credibilty if you were that careful, but not enough to justify calling people "delusional," certainly not enough to declare that your answer is so "obvious" as to categorically rule out all other possibilities. The term "no brainer" suggests a belief that all brains worth counting as brains are on your side of the issue. I guess you do. Pity. Plenty of words and very little substance, much like a mealy mouthed politcian/lawyer. How many teams have let a proven quality starter (even with ups and downs) under 30 go to FA or get traded in the last three years? The best SP allowed to go to FA: 2011/12 CJ Wilson 31 Buehrle 33 2010/11 Lee 32 (then) 2009/10 Bedard 31  torn labrum Harden 28  signed 1yr @$6.5m w/ Tex Lackey (I wish I had a time machine) Pavano (been there done that) Pineiro 31  signed 2 yr @ $8m LAA b/c oft injured I would say this list clearly demonstrates that at 29 years old (entering the 2010 season) coming off of a 212 inning/ 17 and 6 /3.85 ERA  2009, Beckett (with Lee) would have been a very rare top FA SP.  That is three FA classes bereft of top end SP.  In an age where pitching is strong almost every team has locked up every solid starter near 30 years old.  Which is exactly what the Sox did with Lester, Beckett and very likely with Buchholz.
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]
    The issue was not what other teams do or what the Sox do in relation to players other than Beckett on their roster. The subject was his specific contract at a specific point in time. You belittled people who do not share your belief that your take on the subject is IT.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out

    In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To all those who bashed me and called me out : Oh I see. So if a team were to score 100 runs in one game and than 0 the next you would say how great our stats looked being 100 runs over two games. That is the nursery school flash card example, hope you get it.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    What a horrific example.

    Yeah if a baseball team scored 100 runs in one game and 0 the next they would have a a good offense.  Maybe the best of all time.

    The simple fact is the Red Sox offense was not the problem. You don't understand that.  That's okay with me.

     

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