To D H or no D H .............

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    To D H or no D H .............

    It is a double edge sword,  both leagues should go one way or the other ...........  What say you ????

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    I am a fan of the NL way of doing things..it's the way the game was originally played. That said..the weakness in the way the Red Sox use the DH position was evident last night. The stronger defensive player, Napoli, was on the bench and the DH playing first flubbed a fairly routine play.  In the Red Sox paradigm...you have to sacrifice some defense to get the strong offense.

     

    This is not the case for many other AL teams. Most AL teams do not have a dedicated DH ( in the sense that the only thing the DH does is hit). They switch the position out between a bunch of position players who are also strong on defense. Ortiz as a DH is a dying breed....excellent at offense..but limited in defensive capability. You'll see the nex DH will be more versatile.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    I am a fan of the NL way of doing things..it's the way the game was originally played. That said..the weakness in the way the Red Sox use the DH position was evident last night. The stronger defensive player, Napoli, was on the bench and the DH playing first flubbed a fairly routine play.  In the Red Sox paradigm...you have to sacrifice some defense to get the strong offense.

     

    This is not the case for many other AL teams. Most AL teams do not have a dedicated DH ( in the sense that the only thing the DH does is hit). They switch the position out between a bunch of position players who are also strong on defense. Ortiz as a DH is a dying breed....excellent at offense..but limited in defensive capability. You'll see the nex DH will be more versatile.

    And that exactly is the problem the Sox have had with PAPI......  To take a bat from around PAPI (Like Napoli) and then take Napoli's glove off 1st base, actually comes "home to roost" .........  (@ 13 MIL, BTW!!!!!) 


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    This is actually the over-riding problem in the World Series. The National League and NL Managers ultimately have an advantage in the WS because their teams were built on doing double switches, not using a DH, and relying on the 8 hitters. AL teams are used to 9 hitters and a DH who in the Sox case is the team's best hitter. When quick decisions are being made in tight, crucial spots, Matheny is always going to be better than Farrell at it as he has had a lot more practice. Even at AL Parks, in some respects, the DH rule for the NL team is a luxury and then becomes yet another advantage because they get the extra hitter. It's stupid to have 2 rules for 2 parks...just incredibly ridiculous to decide a champion based on 2 rules. Every other sport has an equal playing field.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    This is actually the over-riding problem in the World Series. The National League and NL Managers ultimately have an advantage in the WS because their teams were built on doing double switches, not using a DH, and relying on the 8 hitters. AL teams are used to 9 hitters and a DH who in the Sox case is the team's best hitter. When quick decisions are being made in tight, crucial spots, Matheny is always going to be better than Farrell at it as he has had a lot more practice. Even at AL Parks, in some respects, the DH rule for the NL team is a luxury and then becomes yet another advantage because they get the extra hitter. It's stupid to have 2 rules for 2 parks...just incredibly ridiculous to decide a champion based on 2 rules. Every other sport has an equal playing field.

    B I N G O !!!


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    Bill, and then look at this statistic, it just re-affirms what I have believed to be the case:

    American League teams are 3-12 in their last 15 games in National League parks in World Series games.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    What championship series team has ever had to sit one of their most crucial impact players two straight games...no Napoli...You don't see the Bruins having to sit a Chara, or the Pats have to sit a Ninkovich. Only baseball with the all-time screwup of rules allows for this to happen. Sox didn't have Don Baylor in 1986 due to the rule, the team's best RBI guy, and now no Napoli for the exact same reasons. Can't play him out of position to hurt the defense and he can't be put at the position he plays because only way the Sox best power hitter can play is playing 1b.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    All season, you get to play your best players...then when it's the WS, you have to sit a guy due to numbers based on antiquated rules that needed to be changed in 1973.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    If the Cards, win, this is a major factor despite the poor choices of Salty, Breslow and Farrell...Sox literally could not afford to lose a home game.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    What championship series team has ever had to sit one of their most crucial impact players two straight games...no Napoli...You don't see the Bruins having to sit a Chara, or the Pats have to sit a Ninkovich. Only baseball with the all-time screwup of rules allows for this to happen. Sox didn't have Don Baylor in 1986 due to the rule, the team's best RBI guy, and now no Napoli for the exact same reasons. Can't play him out of position to hurt the defense and he can't be put at the position he plays because only way the Sox best power hitter can play is playing 1b.




    It hurts not having Napoli's bat in the lineup. Without Napoli..the Cards are not afraid to walk Ortiz and walking Ortiz does not help us. Look for them to do the same thing tonight.  Walking Ortiz is a win win for them.

    I think the sport is more pure without the DH..but that's not what the AL believes so it is irrelevent. Like I stated earlier...other teams rotate the DH position between players who are also experienced position players. Not so with the Red Sox and in a situation like this it can hurt..Unfortunately..the only defensive position Ortiz can play with any degree of competency is first base..and right now your starting first baseman also has a big bat...so we are essentially trading one big bat for another.

    Unless Ortiz really comes through at the plate and starts racking up the RBI's in a big way...the Sox don't really gain any significant advantage playing him over Napoli. The Sox DH strategy relies strongly on the concept that Ortiz is going to be getting those big, clutch hits on a regulare basis in NL parks. I guess we will see if that strategy pays off.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    If the NL wants to play with NL Rules in AL parks and NL parks that's fine and if the AL wants to play AL Rules that should be fine. Let's see how fast the NL decides they will use a DH in both parks.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:

    If the NL wants to play with NL Rules in AL parks and NL parks that's fine and if the AL wants to play AL Rules that should be fine. Let's see how fast the NL decides they will use a DH in both parks.

     




    the record says now 4-12 in the last 16 games at NL Parks, I see that as a major advantage still by NL over AL. Home advantage isn't the end all as we can plainly see in this closely matched WS, but it's often you see that an AL manager can get caught up in the emotions and not the chess moves that occur in most NL games. The team not using the DH on a regular basis has a managerial advantage and strategy advantage over the AL team, it's clear as day. Napoli one at bat in 2 of the most important games of the season. It's as simple as that fact.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    Look for them to do the same thing tonight.  Walking Ortiz is a win win for them.

     

    Yup, that worked out well for the Cards.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    The choice to remove Ortiz for a pinch runner is also a by-product of NL-hosted game. It's a 2-run game and maybe in Farrell's mind it was enough to then use the double switch in his head of Lackey-Napoli with Berry pinch running, but you can bet your bottom dollar if the Cards had tied the game, and no Ortiz for extra innings, it would have been a collosal failure to remove Ortiz. In a AL-hosted game, Farrell is less compelled to pinch run there.  For instance, Napoli would have been at 1b, and Ortiz at DH, no need for a double switch.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from blingblang. Show blingblang's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    How about making DH as an option for every team in every game ?  The manager has to fill out his lineup before every game, and once he starts a game with a DH, he cannot take that position out for the entire game.  That will spice things up a bit, and let teams play to their strengths.

    Would be kind of interesting to see one team with the DH in the lineup, and another one without, in the same game.

    And like the free-market economy, let the market decide "to DH, or not to DH".

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    Bottom line, Sox are 2 games to 2 with Lester on the hill. Win or lose tonight, Sox are still in a good spot getting to return to Fenway.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............


    I try to avoid the argument altogether, but two questions:

    1.  How much BP do NL pitchers actually take, and is there any relation between that and their longevitity on the mound?  Do AL pitchers take any BP prior to and after interleague play?

    2.  When a pitcher isn't performing well at all, does the use of a pinch hitter statistically affect a game's outcome in a manner proportionate to the use of DH?  In theory, although it's taxing on the pen, a manager effectively gets the chance to "dh" when a pitcher's removed.  Taxing on the bench, too.

    I kind of like the differences between these styles of play, but it is telling that the NL owns their own parks in the WS. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:

    If the NL wants to play with NL Rules in AL parks and NL parks that's fine and if the AL wants to play AL Rules that should be fine. Let's see how fast the NL decides they will use a DH in both parks.

     




    the record says now 4-12 in the last 16 games at NL Parks, I see that as a major advantage still by NL over AL. Home advantage isn't the end all as we can plainly see in this closely matched WS, but it's often you see that an AL manager can get caught up in the emotions and not the chess moves that occur in most NL games. The team not using the DH on a regular basis has a managerial advantage and strategy advantage over the AL team, it's clear as day. Napoli one at bat in 2 of the most important games of the season. It's as simple as that fact.

    All great points......  Last night we (SOX) were able to get by thanks to Buch, Johnny Gomes, Dobront, Lakey and the others .... J F could not get Napoli at bat till the 8th and in the field till th 9th .....  Your right, thats like playing with a couple of your players back at the hotel with the CAPE-COD FLU  !!


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    The DH issuse to me this year seems even bigger than normal.  In any case I was thinking that in addition to the home field advantage maybe which ever league wins the All Star Game also get's the DH or no DH rule all series too.   Now there really would be a really good reason to play that game hard.

    Having said that I'm a fan of baseball the way it should be played with the pitcher hitting and all the additional moves that brings into the game.  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    I'm of the opinion that you either have both leagues use the DH during the reg. season and change the NL game for good, or drop the DH permanently so everyone is on the same page. I don't like that 2 leagues have different set of rules. It's not going to be a fair playing field in a championship series especially anytime you have a DH being a team's primary or best hitter. One or the other, not both. It would not be fair to have no DH in the entire WS, and it would be I guess a disadvantage? maybe or maybe not for the NL team if they do DH for the entire WS. So if you had to pick, it's DH no matter what in a WS for all games. It's the only fair way to handle the matter and still allow for the NL to have no DH during reg. season. It's got to change, though. You have to have it one or the other. It's been an overall mistake now for 40 years. Either both leagues or none. Not 1 and 1 status quo.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    Keep it the way it is.  Two leagues, two versions, good for the fans.  I especially like the rule that the home park dictates whether DH's will be used, so both leagues have to adapt to the other league's use or nonuse of the DH. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    good for what fans? not good for the Red Sox

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:

    If the NL wants to play with NL Rules in AL parks and NL parks that's fine and if the AL wants to play AL Rules that should be fine. Let's see how fast the NL decides they will use a DH in both parks.

     




    the record says now 4-12 in the last 16 games at NL Parks, I see that as a major advantage still by NL over AL. Home advantage isn't the end all as we can plainly see in this closely matched WS, but it's often you see that an AL manager can get caught up in the emotions and not the chess moves that occur in most NL games. The team not using the DH on a regular basis has a managerial advantage and strategy advantage over the AL team, it's clear as day. Napoli one at bat in 2 of the most important games of the season. It's as simple as that fact.

    All great points......  Last night we (SOX) were able to get by thanks to Buch, Johnny Gomes, Dobront, Lakey and the others .... J F could not get Napoli at bat till the 8th and in the field till th 9th .....  Your right, thats like playing with a couple of your players back at the hotel with the CAPE-COD FLU  !!


    Add PAPI to that list too.......  Sorry about that !!!


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    good for what fans? not good for the Red Sox



    It didn't hurt us in in 2004 or 2007.

     

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from blingblang. Show blingblang's posts

    Re: To D H or no D H .............

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    good for what fans? not good for the Red Sox



    It didn't hurt us in in 2004 or 2007.



    It may not affect 2013 either.

     
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