To those who don't want A-Gon

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon:
    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon : My thoughts exactly. Youk should have been left at 1st. Agon was not needed. Should have just re-signed Beltre and Victor.
    Posted by antiqueman1


    ....not that simple, IMO.  Hindsight is easy, but I was very happy to wave goodbye to Victor as I thought at his age he wasn't a good enough catcher or good enough (DH) hitter to justify his huge contract.

    Beltre?  It's no secret that his rep upon arrival was a guy that kicked a@@ in his contract year 2004 but otherwise had been fairly ineffectual...but was GREAT in 2010.  At age 31.  Bad luck, injuries, whatever...there was risk there.

    ....and Barnes, Swihart, Bradley and Owens are collectively looking pretty promising...plus the VMart/Beltre salary reinvestment.

    I think the Sox chose solidity over risk at the MFL level, plus added 4 big time prospects.  Time will tell. 




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    Alright looks like I have decent size list of people who should keep their mouth shuts once A-Gon heats up and starts to "show" enthusiasm/passion on the field. A-Gon is a laid back guy who goes about his business, he isn't Mr. Raw Raw like Dustin is and he doesn't have to be. Not to mention NONE, I mean absolutely 100% NONE of you know one bit of what A-Gon is like in person, in the dugout or the clubhouse. So as far as that goes it just proves you have a secret agenda that you can't actually put into words and chose to express it in a non-intellectual/factual way. 

    Ironically not one single person in this entire post brought up some one who could replace A-Gon, at the very least, adequately, except for Andrewmitch who is in the running with Bill for the Mitt Romeny of Red Sox fans on this board.

    I would take boring on the field with consistent production than overly emotional with production that comes and goes in bunches.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    i think Chili is right that he is solid, dependale, and will be productive....but there is such a thing as team chemistry - and some players are larger than their stats, and some are lesser than...agon imho is lesser...if we tank this yr, will people finally say Agon plays the game as if he's heading off to work at a bank? where is the passion? the leadership from such a well paid player?  this is something the saBERMETRIC geeks NEVER address...right now it looks like AGON is part of the problem, not the solution..he is a souless player who rarely rises to the challenge...there is no doubt he will pull in respectable stats when the season is over but he is NOT a winner and i would not pay this guy 20 mil a yr for what he gives the team...sorry....and i have never bashed Agon before...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon:
    i think Chili is right that he is solid, dependale, and will be productive....but there is such a thing as team chemistry - and some players are larger than their stats, and some are lesser than...agon imho is lesser...if we tank this yr, will people finally say Agon plays the game as if he's heading off to work at a bank? where is the passion? the leadership from such a well paid player?  this is something the saBERMETRIC geeks NEVER address...right now it looks like AGON is part of the problem, not the solution..he is a souless player who rarely rises to the challenge...there is no doubt he will pull in respectable stats when the season is over but he is NOT a winner and i would not pay this guy 20 mil a yr for what he gives the team...sorry....and i have never bashed Agon before...
    Posted by georom4


    ....and you're not bashing him now!  A team of 25 AGon-types would wilt in the spring sunshine, and a team of 25 Pedroias would implode on 20 February.  A team in any business/discipline needs different skills/personalities/strengths to succeed. 

    I was never a big fan of Manny's "teamwork" - I think it was approaching zero - but he was a metronome.  Even his teammates got the "Manny being Manny" concept.  A brilliant, unassailable rock....would/could never let you down, would/could never raise you up.  Just a hitting machine.  And that's ok if you accept that, count on it, and find the other necesseties to win in rejects, weirdos, cowboys and waiverinos.

    I don't think the Sox, or I, saw Manny or Pedey in AGon.  I wouldn't even have spent that much on a 1B guy.  But in 5 years he'll have a HOF resume.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    Chili - just giving you my honest opinion of Agon now that I have seen him for over a yr....just not that impressed...sorry....we could do do much more with his 20 mil a yr
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon:
    Chili - just giving you my honest opinion of Agon now that I have seen him for over a yr....just not that impressed...sorry....we could do do much more with his 20 mil a yr
    Posted by georom4

    So, let me get this straight. He has how many years left on his contract and you are already made a decision on him that he is absolutely unimpressive? His numbers were amazing last year and it's really been only a month, you haven't even given him at least one good month of summer to add to his current stats, which people like you will just say doesn't matter because a 3 run homer isn't meaningful if we win the game by say 7+. He has had a bad week or so, but before that he was hitting above .315 and was clearly pressing because for the exception of Papi no one behind him was adding reliable production. If he ends the year with an avg of around .310/30+hrs/100+RBIs will you be at least moderately happy or is that not good enough for you? Because clearly last years .338 avg/27 homeruns/117 RBIs was just so pedestrian, right?
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon



    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon:
    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon : he looks like he's 30 going on 45.
    Posted by bellhorn_

     
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    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In Response to To those who don't want A-Gon:
    How do you plan on replacing this; Career Stats G- 1042 PA-4459 HR-197 R-609 RBI-657 BB%-11.2 K%-17.9 AVG-.292 BABIP-.322 OBP-.374 SLG-.510 WAR 27.7 Plus his glove at first base.
    Posted by freediro


    Statsd are stats you putz, look at His "Stats" from the last "All star game" till now = SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon:
    agon = boring only a sabermetric stat geek could get fired up by this guy....like theo
    Posted by georom4


    Actually, he appeals to traditional analysis -- HR, RBI, BA. That's what he put up big time in San Diego. That and his swing with scouts rave about. All that has nothing to do with sabermetrics.

    That you think he souless or plays w/o passion. OK fine, that's your opinion. I think too many fans think they know what's in a players head or heart just by looking at him. I'm not gonig to argue that point either way, but there have been plenty of players in the old days that put up great numbers but also could be considered boring. I look at it as simply being a professional. Any player in a slump is boring, and all red-hot players are exciting. But like I said, you're entitled to view him however you want.

    I think it's too early to say he's not clutch. He's in a slump now but carried the team for two months last year -- May and June and was hardly terrible in September, although I agree, he, like the rest of the team, lacked clutch-hitting ability that month.

    What fascinates the so-called sabermetrics geeks are the other stats like OPS, OPS-plus, etc.

    Like I said in the opening graph, Gonzalez would have appealed to the traditional, old-time scouts -- great swing, great glove and great HR-RBI-BA numbers.

    It's the J.D. Drews of the world, players who rarely have the great HR-RBI numbers, that the sabermetric geeks fall in love with because of OBP and OPS and other new-wave stats.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    Slide a Manny Ramirez in behind AGon and watch him destroy the opponents.  He needs to have a co-star, he is not the chosen one to carry the team on his back.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    Gonzalez cares less about baseball than all the posters in this thread - that is the problem.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In response to "Re: To those who don't want A-Gon":
    Slide a Manny Ramirez in behind AGon and watch him destroy the opponents.  He needs to have a co-star, he is not the chosen one to carry the team on his back. Posted by BurritoT
    Uh, Ortiz?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon:
    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon : Actually, he appeals to traditional analysis -- HR, RBI, BA. That's what he put up big time in San Diego. That and his swing with scouts rave about. All that has nothing to do with sabermetrics. That you think he souless or plays w/o passion. OK fine, that's your opinion. I think too many fans think they know what's in a players head or heart just by looking at him. I'm not gonig to argue that point either way, but there have been plenty of players in the old days that put up great numbers but also could be considered boring. I look at it as simply being a professional. Any player in a slump is boring, and all red-hot players are exciting. But like I said, you're entitled to view him however you want. I think it's too early to say he's not clutch. He's in a slump now but carried the team for two months last year -- May and June and was hardly terrible in September, although I agree, he, like the rest of the team, lacked clutch-hitting ability that month. What fascinates the so-called sabermetrics geeks are the other stats like OPS, OPS-plus, etc. Like I said in the opening graph, Gonzalez would have appealed to the traditional, old-time scouts -- great swing, great glove and great HR-RBI-BA numbers. It's the J.D. Drews of the world, players who rarely have the great HR-RBI numbers, that the sabermetric geeks fall in love with because of OBP and OPS and other new-wave stats.
    Posted by royf19

     Good post Roy, any thoughts on A-Gon putting up big numbers because the rest of the Pads were terrible? Let him get his pitches to hit because he was the only threat, and they weren't going to beat you anyways? Now that he has to produce in a much tougher league, not so much.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon:
    In response to "Re: To those who don't want A-Gon": Uh, Ortiz?
    Posted by 111SoxFan111



    Ortiz has not batted consistently directly behind AGon this year and not at all in 2011 (I think). Now D.O is batting ahead of him.

    Ortiz seems like the ultimate clean-up hitter to me this year....  
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon:
    In Response to To those who don't want A-Gon : Statsd are stats you putz, look at His "Stats" from the last "All star game" till now = SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Posted by jozee76

    So you are going to get rid of him having a down half a year? I realize he is in a little slump, but he will be here for many years and he won't suck. Once again you can't provide anything to this thread besides SUCKS!!!!! like a mindless fan 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In response to "Re: To those who don't want A-Gon":
    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon : Ortiz has not batted consistently directly behind AGon this year and not at all in 2011 (I think). Now D.O is batting ahead of him. Ortiz seems like the ultimate clean-up hitter to me this year....   Posted by BurritoT
    So Ortiz didn't bat behind AGon at all last year and he had a huge year. This year he has batted behind him and he's having a down year so far. AGon needs someone batting behind him?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    I support AGon, I made a post of my opinions of him. If you want to prove your point, and try twisting my support into some sort of negative smack on AGon than please provide exact stats of how many games Ortiz batted immediately after AGon this year. 


     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    Looking at one old school stat, Agon is not in the elite as far as lifetime slugging %. Papi far outdoes him in this area. Even the ever controversial Mark Teixeira does. And of course Albert Pujols has been elite for this stat. So for a supposed slugging superstar 1b, Agon falls short of many of his peers in this department. I think it may fair to expect more from him for slugging, except that maybe we were incorrect in figuring how much the ballpark effect skewed his numbers.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon:
    Looking at one old school stat, Agon is not in the elite as far as lifetime slugging %. Papi far outdoes him in this area. Even the ever controversial Mark Teixeira does. And of course Albert Pujols has been elite for this stat. So for a supposed slugging superstar 1b, Agon falls short of many of his peers in this department. I think it may fair to expect more from him for slugging, except that maybe we were incorrect in figuring how much the ballpark effect skewed his numbers.
    Posted by devildavid


    I don't follow that conclusion.  He outslugged both Pujols and Teixeira in his first full year with Boston, and was nearly identical to Ortiz.  Isn't that evidence of ballpark effect?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    I want AGon--a lot--I just don't want the AGon right now who is not helping.  With Youk, Ells, and CC out, he needs to man up.  Today he has been horrible in a winnable game, leaving five baserunners on. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: To those who don't want A-Gon

    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon:
    In Response to Re: To those who don't want A-Gon : I don't follow that conclusion.  He outslugged both Pujols and Teixeira in his first full year with Boston, and was nearly identical to Ortiz.  Isn't that evidence of ballpark effect?
    Posted by slomag


    I was talking about career numbers.
     
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