Tommy John surgery question

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Tommy John surgery question

    With all of the TJ surgeries that have come up this year. I do believe that Dice is like at least the 5th one in the first two months that  I can recall this year.
    Do you really think that pitch count is still something that should or should not be done?
    The RS have two guys right now getting it and then they had one or two last year.
    Please do not throw the japanese crap out there as it as no bearing on it.

    Just seems it is up TJ surgery that is....
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    Tell me, who was the last RedSox pitcher - M.L.pitcher that is - to get TJ surgery before this year?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    Tazawa had it, and I think Doubront did a year or two ago.  One of the minor leaguers did, anyway.  Just not entirely sure which one it was.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    I know that. But I'm talking about RedSox ML pitchers. Not farm hands.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    A guy who pitched in 2009 and almost made the team out of Spring Training last year isn't Major League? I need to see your definition of Major League. Or ML.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    The last Sox pitcher was Manny DelCarmen.He had Tommy John surgery in 2003 according to this article about Red Sox pitchers who had it.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/11337/delcarmen-gordon-among-sox-p-who-had-tommy-john
     
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    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    MOJO: MDC was a minor leaguer at the time. Who was the last major league RedSox player - I'm talking about a FT REDSOX ML pitcher - to have TJ surgery?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    Wastefield needs lap band surgery.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babe-Ted. Show Babe-Ted's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    The OP is not well stated and entirely speculative.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    m
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    In Response to Re: Tommy John surgery question:
    MOJO : MDC was a minor leaguer at the time. Who was the last major league RedSox player - I'm talking about a FT REDSOX ML pitcher - to have TJ surgery?
    Posted by harness

    Go research it yourself, you lazy @%&#.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question



    Rofl.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHhAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

    ROFL     LOL     HA

    The bootlicker's dance. Do you wash his JS also?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    Still waiting for the answer to who was the last RedSox FT major League pitcher to have TJ surgery.

    Will this require an historian?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    In Response to Re: Tommy John surgery question:
    Still waiting for the answer to who was the last RedSox FT major League pitcher to have TJ surgery. Will this require an historian?
    Posted by harness

    We're not your servants, you self-serving lethargic tool.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    WT   F does it matter minor league or ML?
    It still seems that TJ surgeries are up this year.

    BTW do you know????
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    Red Sox pitchers and Tommy John surgery

    June, 3, 2011
    Jun 3
    9:35
    PM ET
    BOSTON -- With Daisuke Matsuzaka and Rich Hill both looking at potential Tommy John surgery, here's a look at some Sox pitchers who have had the procedure in the past (some while with the Sox, others while with other teams) and how they recovered:

    * Manny Delcarmen: Had Tommy John surgery in May 2003 while playing for Single-A Sarasota. He was 1-1 with a 3.13 ERA in 4 appearances before the surgery. He returned a year later in May 2004 and pitched in 19 games for Sarasota, going 3-6 with a 4.68 ERA in 73 IP. Made it to the big leagues just over a year later, his velocity intact, making his debut on June 26, 2005.

    * Chad Fox: Fox was one of the rarities who had two Tommy John surgeries, both early in his career, also had a third operation after fracturing his elbow, and was bedeviled by elbow problems throughout his career. His only injury-free season came in 2001, when as a setup man for the Milwaukee Brewers he threw in 65 games with 5-2 record and a 1.89 ERA. Fox lasted only one season with the Red Sox, where he was 1-2 with a 4.50 ERA in 17 appearances during the 2003 season.

    * Frank Viola: Had Tommy John surgery on May 17, 1994 while with the Red Sox. He was 1-1 with a 4.65 ERA in 6 starts before the surgery. The surgery virtually ended his career, as he would make only 9 more appearances in the next two years before retiring. He was 0-1 with a 6.28 ERA for the Cincinnati Reds in 1995 and 1-3 with a 7.71 ERA for the Toronto Blue Jays in 1996. He retired after the 1996 season.

    * Tom Gordon: Had Tommy John surgery in December 1999. A year before in 1998, he had a career-high 46 saves and a 2.72 ERA for the Red Sox. His elbow began to bother him in the 1999 season and he was limited to only 21 appearances. He missed the whole 2000 season and was traded to the White Sox, where he had 27 saves in 47 appearances in 2001. He pitched 9 more seasons after getting the surgery.

    * Rheal Cormier: Had Tommy John surgery in 1997 after making only 1 start with the Montreal Expos, in which he gave up 5 runs in 1.1 IP. Cormier spent two years of recovery out of the league before returning in 1999 as a reliever for the Red Sox. He was 2-0 with a 3.69 ERA in 60 appearances in 1999 and pitched 7 more years in the MLB.

    * Matt Mantei:
    Had Tommy John surgery in June 2001 after pitching in only 8 games for the Arizona Diamondbacks that season. He returned the following year for the Diamondbacks, making 31 appearances with a 4.73 ERA. Mantei was mostly ineffective for the Red Sox in 2005, with a 6.49 ERA in 34 appearances.

    * Scott Williamson: Had Tommy John surgery early in the 2001 season after only 2 appearances for the Cincinnati Reds. Williamson was fairly successful with the Reds, going 17-15 in his first two years in the majors with a 2.41 ERA in 1999 and a 3.29 ERA in 2000. He was never the same after the surgery and was relegated to the Red’s minor league system in 2003. Williamson spent only two years with the Sox and had a 6.20 ERA in 24 games during the latter half of the 2003 season. He required yet another Tommy John surgery in 2005.

    * Bob Howry: Had Tommy John surgery after injuring his elbow during his 2002 season with the Red Sox. Howry missed most of 2003 but tried to return late in the season, but gave up 6 runs in only 4.1 IP (12.46 ERA) in 4 appearances. He was traded to Cleveland in 2004 and had some success, going 4-2 with a 2.72 ERA in 37 games in 2004 and 7-4 with a 2.47 ERA in 79 games in 2005.

    * Jason Shiell: Had Tommy John surgery in May 2004 after 1 year with the Red Sox. Shiell was 2-0 with a 4.63 ERA in 17 relief appearances in 2003. Shiell did not return from the surgery until 2006 when he pitched 15.2 innings for the Braves, going 0-2 with a 8.62 ERA. 2006 was his last season in the majors.
     
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    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    Thanks for that. I'll tell you why the level of play matters. This current ownership has advanced training technique and it's scrutinized at the M.L. level.
    Players who have had TJ surgery under this regime have either had it at lower levels where much of it wasn't in place at the time, or the player came from another organization where training regime is completely different.

    Historically, the RedSox have gone via the FA route to attain quality arms. The exception was when the franchise was in re-building mode and we saw Clemens/Hurst/Boyd.

    Under Epstein, the team has produced the likes of Paps/Bard/Lester.
    Only Paps has had any shoulder issues. They shut him down for Sept. of that year and he was doing shoulder-strengthening exercises religiously.

    He hasn't had an issue since and is primed for a big contract. Closers don't usually display the endurance he has.

    My point is this: Hill hasn't been in the organization for very long.
    Tazawa went from an industrial league to AA. He couldn't handle the rigors of pitching outside of Japan.

    Now we have Dice. He has been with Boston for 4+ years. He has never been on board with team training or ML pitching approach, which is to pound the zone and be pitch efficient. If he had been, would he/the club be in this situation now?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    How many Red Sox pitchers have had lap band surgery?

    How many Red Sox pitchers need lap band surgery?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Tommy John surgery question

    In Response to Re: Tommy John surgery question:
    Thanks for that. I'll tell you why the level of play matters. This current ownership has advanced training technique and it's scrutinized at the M.L. level. Players who have had TJ surgery under this regime have either had it at lower levels where much of it wasn't in place at the time, or the player came from another organization where training regime is completely different. Historically, the RedSox have gone via the FA route to attain quality arms. The exception was when the franchise was in re-building mode and we saw Clemens/Hurst/Boyd. Under Epstein, the team has produced the likes of Paps/Bard/Lester. Only Paps has had any shoulder issues. They shut him down for Sept. of that year and he was doing shoulder-strengthening exercises religiously. He hasn't had an issue since and is primed for a big contract. Closers don't usually display the endurance he has. My point is this: Hill hasn't been in the organization for very long. Tazawa went from an industrial league to AA. He couldn't handle the rigors of pitching outside of Japan. Now we have Dice. He has been with Boston for 4+ years. He has never been on board with team training or ML pitching approach, which is to pound the zone and be pitch efficient. If he had been, would he/the club be in this situation now?
    Posted by harness


    Good points.

    The Red Sox training program for pitchers has been widely praised. Brad Penny credits it with saving his career. So it will be interesting to see going forward.


     
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