Too proud to learn?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Too proud to learn?

    The Brewers came in here last week with the mind-set, "if I can hit it, I'm swinging!", and they've been hitting and winning ever since. Meanwhile Pedroia puts his foot in the bucket and takes almost every first pitrch for strike one. It is axiomatic that a hitter in the hole with one strike has given the pitcher an advantage. I don't need an album full of stats to figure that out. I don't know how many called strike three's Nava and Napoli have taken this year, but it is mind boggling. The umpires have been calling close pitches "strike" since game 1, fellas! While you're watching pitch counts (so a fresh pitcher can come in) you're letting the best pitch you will see the entire AB sail by for strilke one.

    A good team can win the WS; it takes more than that to continue on and be great the following year. It's called "adjustment". All good pitchers try and get ahead (translation: fast ball down the middle).

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    Hitters like Pedey are not going to change their whole approach after having the amount of success he has Had. Its 12 games in. Relax a bit.

    the brewers are a young free swinging team. That usually tends to catch up with a team, and not in a good way.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Brewers came in here last week with the mind-set, "if I can hit it, I'm swinging!", and they've been hitting and winning ever since. Meanwhile Pedroia puts his foot in the bucket and takes almost every first pitrch for strike one. It is axiomatic that a hitter in the hole with one strike has given the pitcher an advantage. I don't need an album full of stats to figure that out. I don't know how many called strike three's Nava and Napoli have taken this year, but it is mind boggling. The umpires have been calling close pitches "strike" since game 1, fellas! While you're watching pitch counts (so a fresh pitcher can come in) you're letting the best pitch you will see the entire AB sail by for strilke one.

    A good team can win the WS; it takes more than that to continue on and be great the following year. It's called "adjustment". All good pitchers try and get ahead (translation: fast ball down the middle). 

    [/QUOTE]

    So how do you explain how successful the Red Sox approach was last year?

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    Taking pitches isn't the problem. The SOX are in an offensive slump; except for a few exceptions, they're not even hitting the mistakes. However, being more aggressive on the 1st pitch may help them get out of this funk.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    Yes let's forget about the fact this approach has produced the best 10 years in Sox history and instead let's change our approach because of the last 10 games.

    If we lose tonight each player should bat opposite handed the next game, swing at the first pitch, skip around the bases and slide into home. It's time to shake things up around here.

    If that doesn't work I want to see Farrel fired and everyone traded. I'm sick and tired of the Sox not hitting... UGH.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to Wolfpack13's comment:

    Yes let's forget about the fact this approach has produced the best 10 years in Sox history and instead let's change our approach because of the last 10 games.

    If we lose tonight each player should bat opposite handed the next game, swing at the first pitch, skip around the bases and slide into home. It's time to shake things up around here.

    If that doesn't work I want to see Farrel fired and everyone traded. I'm sick and tired of the Sox not hitting... UGH.



    Wolf,

    Couldn't agree more. Tear down Fenway, build a brand new park in the Burbs, sell to a new owner who will spend some money and bring in a whole new front office, then sign David Ortiz to a ten year extension at 25mil and build around him. He'll be just as good at 45 as he is now and trade away the rest of the roster to start fresh. Wonder if Pumpsie Green would be up for a comeback. 

    Actually a simpler solution, trade Cherington and his front office to the Cubs for Theo with his front office, swap both roster and bring back Boooby V. That'll start the flood gates.  

    Hetch

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Brewers came in here last week with the mind-set, "if I can hit it, I'm swinging!", and they've been hitting and winning ever since. Meanwhile Pedroia puts his foot in the bucket and takes almost every first pitrch for strike one. It is axiomatic that a hitter in the hole with one strike has given the pitcher an advantage. I don't need an album full of stats to figure that out. I don't know how many called strike three's Nava and Napoli have taken this year, but it is mind boggling. The umpires have been calling close pitches "strike" since game 1, fellas! While you're watching pitch counts (so a fresh pitcher can come in) you're letting the best pitch you will see the entire AB sail by for strilke one.

    A good team can win the WS; it takes more than that to continue on and be great the following year. It's called "adjustment". All good pitchers try and get ahead (translation: fast ball down the middle).

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, you do need an album full of stats to figure this one out.

    1-Does Pedrioa take more 1st pitches than most players do?

    2-What is the average result?  By this, I mean does it hurt him or help him?

    I looked at the numbers, and they didn't strike me as strange.  From a pure numbers perspective, maybe he should've swung once or twice more, but without seeing each pitch, there is no way to tell.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Brewers came in here last week with the mind-set, "if I can hit it, I'm swinging!", and they've been hitting and winning ever since. Meanwhile Pedroia puts his foot in the bucket and takes almost every first pitrch for strike one. It is axiomatic that a hitter in the hole with one strike has given the pitcher an advantage. I don't need an album full of stats to figure that out. I don't know how many called strike three's Nava and Napoli have taken this year, but it is mind boggling. The umpires have been calling close pitches "strike" since game 1, fellas! While you're watching pitch counts (so a fresh pitcher can come in) you're letting the best pitch you will see the entire AB sail by for strilke one.

    A good team can win the WS; it takes more than that to continue on and be great the following year. It's called "adjustment". All good pitchers try and get ahead (translation: fast ball down the middle).

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, you do need an album full of stats to figure this one out.

    1-Does Pedrioa take more 1st pitches than most players do?

    2-What is the average result?  By this, I mean does it hurt him or help him?

    I looked at the numbers, and they didn't strike me as strange.  From a pure numbers perspective, maybe he should've swung once or twice more, but without seeing each pitch, there is no way to tell.

     

    [/QUOTE]
    My non scientific observation - Pedey takes tons of first ball strikes but also gets more hits with two strikes than anyone...bat contol, intelligence, and reflexes serve him well...but yea sometimes when i see a meatball down the middle on the first pitch i wonder, why not swing?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Taking pitches isn't the problem. The SOX are in an offensive slump; except for a few exceptions, they're not even hitting the mistakes. However, being more aggressive on the 1st pitch may help them get out of this funk.

    [/QUOTE]

    My only concern is becoming too predictable.  We're a team built on going deep into the count to wear pitchers down.  For the OP to suggest we need to change our model after 10 years of success, because we're in  slump, seems incredibly short-sighted.  To suggest that Pedey is too proud to change his style is, imo, stupid.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Brewers came in here last week with the mind-set, "if I can hit it, I'm swinging!", and they've been hitting and winning ever since. Meanwhile Pedroia puts his foot in the bucket and takes almost every first pitrch for strike one. It is axiomatic that a hitter in the hole with one strike has given the pitcher an advantage. I don't need an album full of stats to figure that out. I don't know how many called strike three's Nava and Napoli have taken this year, but it is mind boggling. The umpires have been calling close pitches "strike" since game 1, fellas! While you're watching pitch counts (so a fresh pitcher can come in) you're letting the best pitch you will see the entire AB sail by for strilke one.

    A good team can win the WS; it takes more than that to continue on and be great the following year. It's called "adjustment". All good pitchers try and get ahead (translation: fast ball down the middle).

     

    [/QUOTE]mal, isn't that one of the reasons Farrell moved DP to the top..the fact that he does work the pitcher??..


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    My non scientific observation - Pedey takes tons of first ball strikes but also gets more hits with two strikes than anyone...bat contol, intelligence, and reflexes serve him well...but yea sometimes when i see a meatball down the middle on the first pitch i wonder, why not swing?

    I don't disagree.  That use to drive me crazy with Boggs, although it seems not to have held him back too much.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    Pedey has swung at the first pitch just 5.5 percent of the time. The only other player for the Sox under 10 percent is Sizemore at 9.5 percent.

    Catcher must want to get their at-bat over with fast because A.J. swings at the first pitch 50 percent of the time, and Ross 42.9 percent. They're the top two.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    Working the count is the current trend. I think you have to change it up once in a while. Can't let the pitcher know that he can get an easy strike one. Sometimes the first pitch is the best one to hit. Keep them guessing a bit.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Working the count is the current trend. I think you have to change it up once in a while. Can't let the pitcher know that he can get an easy strike one. Sometimes the first pitch is the best one to hit. Keep them guessing a bit.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree 100%. A pitcher that's thinking is always a benefit to to the batter. Ted Williams once said that pitchers were the dumbest animals on the planet.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    It's not alwaya about numbers like how players do after going down 0-1 in the count, it's often about getting the starter out of the game as soon as possible and getting to the opponent's middle relievers as soon and as often as possible.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's not alwaya about numbers like how players do after going down 0-1 in the count, it's often about getting the starter out of the game as soon as possible and getting to the opponent's middle relievers as soon and as often as possible.

    [/QUOTE]

    That can depend on the quality of an opponents pen. You are not likely to get the starter out of there before at least five or six innings. Some teams have a group of hard throwing relievers who can come in and match up very well. So, that stategy is not necessarily worth passing up some very hittable pitches. I'm not advocating always swinging at the first pitch. Just trying to keep the opposing pitcher honest. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's not alwaya about numbers like how players do after going down 0-1 in the count, it's often about getting the starter out of the game as soon as possible and getting to the opponent's middle relievers as soon and as often as possible.

    [/QUOTE]

    Good point, but if the 1st pitch is a fastball down the middle, it's the batter's duty to swing at it.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Brewers came in here last week with the mind-set, "if I can hit it, I'm swinging!", and they've been hitting and winning ever since. Meanwhile Pedroia puts his foot in the bucket and takes almost every first pitrch for strike one. It is axiomatic that a hitter in the hole with one strike has given the pitcher an advantage. I don't need an album full of stats to figure that out. I don't know how many called strike three's Nava and Napoli have taken this year, but it is mind boggling. The umpires have been calling close pitches "strike" since game 1, fellas! While you're watching pitch counts (so a fresh pitcher can come in) you're letting the best pitch you will see the entire AB sail by for strilke one.

    A good team can win the WS; it takes more than that to continue on and be great the following year. It's called "adjustment". All good pitchers try and get ahead (translation: fast ball down the middle).

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, you do need an album full of stats to figure this one out.

    1-Does Pedrioa take more 1st pitches than most players do?

    2-What is the average result?  By this, I mean does it hurt him or help him?

    I looked at the numbers, and they didn't strike me as strange.  From a pure numbers perspective, maybe he should've swung once or twice more, but without seeing each pitch, there is no way to tell.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The number you should worry about is 5... 2 Outfield spots  1 Catching spot...1 3rd base spot.Oh and now maybe a closer spot..... Here we go again.........Carp ,Nava  Gomes ? Ross. AJ Perstinky ??/ nice one year, lets move on

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    The number you should worry about is 5... 2 Outfield spots  1 Catching spot...1 3rd base spot.Oh and now maybe a closer spot..... Here we go again.........Carp ,Nava  Gomes ? Ross. AJ Perstinky ??/ nice one year, lets move on

    1-Perstinky has the best average on the team, so I'm not going to worry about him.

    2-Carp, Nava, Gomes, and Ross are backup or platoons, and not much reason to be concerned.

    3-Closer, I was concerned about in the off-season on age and IP issues.

    4-Catching is fine, I think we have to go with WMB and see what happens, and I feel pretty good with the OF with Sizemore, JBJ, Vic, with Gomes and Nava as their backup.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    I agree that Pedroia should become more aggresive on the first pitch. However, after the first pitch he should become much less aggresive. He is swinging at way too many pitches outside of the strike zone and hasn't taken a single walk. He seems to be pressing, yet his aggresiveness has not been dangerous as he is hardly ever pulling the ball. Not looking good right now.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    maybe the wrist has been bothering him right along this spring

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Too proud to learn?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Brewers came in here last week with the mind-set, "if I can hit it, I'm swinging!", and they've been hitting and winning ever since. Meanwhile Pedroia puts his foot in the bucket and takes almost every first pitrch for strike one. It is axiomatic that a hitter in the hole with one strike has given the pitcher an advantage. I don't need an album full of stats to figure that out. I don't know how many called strike three's Nava and Napoli have taken this year, but it is mind boggling. The umpires have been calling close pitches "strike" since game 1, fellas! While you're watching pitch counts (so a fresh pitcher can come in) you're letting the best pitch you will see the entire AB sail by for strilke one.

    A good team can win the WS; it takes more than that to continue on and be great the following year. It's called "adjustment". All good pitchers try and get ahead (translation: fast ball down the middle). 

    [/QUOTE]

    So how do you explain how successful the Red Sox approach was last year?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The strike zone, for one thing; lousy bullpens for another. Because Petey hit .300 last year, what would he have hit had he not been in the hole 0 and 1 every at bat?

     
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