Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PapiFan. Show PapiFan's posts

    Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    The rumor is out there that the Marlins will be looking to trade Hanley, because he is upset about losing his shortstop job.  Based on his salary and last year's performance his trade value has gone way down, and you do not have to destroy your team to get him.  The Sox desperately need a middle of the order hitter, who hits from the right side.  You trade Scutaro and his 6 million dollar contract and install Hanley at SS.  Ortiz would take this kid under his wing.  Oh and make Papi the new team captain.

    The question is what would it take to get Hanley?  And could Valentine deal with him?  And could Boston deal with Hanley being Hanley? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Ellsbury and Lowrie will do it, with the Marlins paying the difference in Hanley's 14M and Ellsbury's likely 8M for 2012. Move Hanley to LF.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tartarus12. Show tartarus12's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Only a fool would trade Ellsbury and Lowrie for a shortstop who is too big to play shortstop. The Marlins signed Reyes because Hanley can't play SS any more. I'm amazed at how many "educated" Sox fans seem to know nothing about baseball.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]Only a fool would trade Ellsbury and Lowrie for a shortstop who is too big to play shortstop. The Marlins signed Reyes because Hanley can't play SS any more. I'm amazed at how many "educated" Sox fans seem to know nothing about baseball.
    Posted by tartarus12[/QUOTE]

    Along with being a mediocre shortstop, his bat is overrated too.  I don't get the colllective Sox fan hard on for this guy.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]The rumor is out there that the Marlins will be looking to trade Hanley, because he is upset about losing his shortstop job.  Based on his salary and last year's performance his trade value has gone way down, and you do not have to destroy your team to get him.  The Sox desperately need a middle of the order hitter, who hits from the right side.  You trade Scutaro and his 6 million dollar contract and install Hanley at SS.  Ortiz would take this kid under his wing.  Oh and make Papi the new team captain. The question is what would it take to get Hanley?  And could Valentine deal with him?  And could Boston deal with Hanley being Hanley? 
    Posted by PapiFan[/QUOTE]

    Sorry too late, Hanley was already adversely affected by Manny's despicable attitude, something that has stuck with him during his years in Florida.

    Can we please stop with these trade rumors, bringing this attitude problem child back to Boston, especially with the team trying to fix the clubhouse chemistry as it is...

    ...let's move on already from this guy!!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PapiFan. Show PapiFan's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]Ellsbury and Lowrie will do it, with the Marlins paying the difference in Hanley's 14M and Ellsbury's likely 8M for 2012.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    If it was December 7, 2010 then the deal might have happened, but after Hanley's horrific year and Ellsbury's MVP type season, there is no way Florida would expect Ellsbury.

    The fact of the matter is the Marlins have an oversized SS who won't move his position, has a bad attitude, is below average defensively, and is coming off an absolutely horrific offensive performance.  Essentially his trade value is at its lowest.  The Marlins do not want to trade him, but he is now forcing their hand.
    There are also not a lot of teams that can take on a salary on a player like this and one that refuses to change positions.

    To me it is worth the risk of taking on the potential cancer.  I think Ortiz can keep him in control.  Hanley has enormous respect for Ortiz.  If you remember he apologized to his manager in 2010, because Ortiz convinced him too.

    Bottom line is they would not have to give up Ellsbury.  And if they ate the whole salary, the cost would not be prohibitive, at least according to Buster Olney.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyLegend. Show DeweyLegend's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    You all fail on this thread - what about the more obvious answer? Miami has no desire to move Ramirez, they did not sign Reyes just to turn around and dump their biggest star for Youk and a couple of prospects. They are not spending tens of millions just to all of a sudden want to go young all in the same off-season.

    Miami knows it cannot top Philly's staff but they can outscore them.

    Stop thinking about everything from our end and gain a better perspective by seeing things from the other side.
    BurritoT - said this yesterday 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    If Marlins don't expect Ellsbury, dubious, then ask for Hanley and a pen arm for Ellsbury.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]You all fail on this thread - what about the more obvious answer? Miami has no desire to move Ramirez, they did not sign Reyes just to turn around and dump their biggest star for Youk and a couple of prospects. They are not spending tens of millions just to all of a sudden want to go young all in the same off-season. Miami knows it cannot top Philly's staff but they can outscore them. Stop thinking about everything from our end and gain a better perspective by seeing things from the other side. BurritoT - said this yesterday 
    Posted by DeweyLegend[/QUOTE]

    This thread is based off of the rumor that Hanley has demanded a trade.  Admittedly, there are conflicting reports as to if that demand took place.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    The team needs pitching.  All the offensive production in the world isn't going to get you to the post season if you only have 3 legit starters.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PapiFan. Show PapiFan's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    http://twitter.com/#!/Buster_ESPN/status/144522680060751872

    For the life of me I cannot figure out people that go on a baseball board and complain about people talking about baseball rumors or pretend they are all knowing on the subject when they have absolutely no clue.

    Is Buster Olney right??  Who the hell knows??  Marlins have now stated that they are not looking to trade him.  I guess a baseball team never lies??? 

    And Pinstripe I am happy that a yankee fan feels the Sox do not need more righthanded hitting, but one of the listed priorities is getting a RH bat for the Sox for a reason.  If you look at the cumulative runs scored one could be under the misconception that the Sox do not need to improve their offense.  That would be false.  They run up the scores on bad pitching, but outside of Ellsbury, consistently struggled against top pitchers (something the 03 and 04 Sox did not).  In September there only wins seemed to happen when they scored in double digits.  So they would win 18-6 one night and lose 4-3 the next night.  They got exposed in close games with bad clutch hitting on top of getting hurt by lefty specialists because they were too lefthanded a lineup.  You cannot just blindly look at runs scored.  Just look at the Red Sox scores in September.  They could not win a close game to save their life.  Yes the bullpen is one reason, but lack of timely hitting is another big reason.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PapiFan. Show PapiFan's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    I agree with your premise that pitching is more of a need, but you cannot just snap your fingers and solve the problem.  So you ignore other areas, because you have pitchiing issues? Every team has pitching issues.  If your starters get hurt, you better have minor league depth.  The Sox don't and that is a major reason why they fell apart. 

    And Youk is not as good a player as Hanley.  You can say Hanley is a bad idea.  The guy has a major attitude problem and potentially could be a clubhouse cancer, so there are many reasons not to do it.  But I think you buy low and get him.  If anybody can get his head on straight it is Ortiz.

    And I am sorry there is not pitching available.  CJ Wilson is going to be overpaid for and the Sox cannot afford it.  Buerhle does not translate to the AL east and he does not want to come anyways. Oswalt is an injury risk.  The fact of the matter is that the Sox are still stinging from Lackey and Dice K.  There is a reason why Bard is moving to the starting rotation. There is no starting pitching.  And the Sox do not have the talent in their system to get Gio Gonzalez.  The Sox are going to have to go the route of what the Yankees did last year and find reclamation projects and roll the dice and hope somebody sticks.  And NOT Wakefield!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]http://twitter.com/#!/Buster_ESPN/status/144522680060751872 For the life of me I cannot figure out people that go on a baseball board and complain about people talking about baseball rumors or pretend they are all knowing on the subject when they have absolutely no clue. Is Buster Olney right??  Who the hell knows??  Marlins have now stated that they are not looking to trade him.  I guess a baseball team never lies???  And Pinstripe I am happy that a yankee fan feels the Sox do not need more righthanded hitting, but one of the listed priorities is getting a RH bat for the Sox for a reason.  If you look at the cumulative runs scored one could be under the misconception that the Sox do not need to improve their offense.  That would be false.  They run up the scores on bad pitching, but outside of Ellsbury, consistently struggled against top pitchers (something the 03 and 04 Sox did not).  In September there only wins seemed to happen when they scored in double digits.  So they would win 18-6 one night and lose 4-3 the next night.  They got exposed in close games with bad clutch hitting on top of getting hurt by lefty specialists because they were too lefthanded a lineup.  You cannot just blindly look at runs scored.  Just look at the Red Sox scores in September.  They could not win a close game to save their life.  Yes the bullpen is one reason, but lack of timely hitting is another big reason.
    Posted by PapiFan[/QUOTE]
    Lack of a manager that was willing to try to create important runs also hurt.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    A poster named softlaw was on here years ago saying that the Marlins would try and shop Hanley when the balloon payment hit in 2012. Jasko claimed it would never happen because Hanley was signed to open new stadium. Needless to say, Hanley most certainly is being shopped, even if Marlins don't find an acceptable trade partner. Most people are truly clueless about baseball business.

    Manny was on 2 title teams, for those worried about a troublemaker personaility. Hanley would fit perfectly in LF, and listening to him whine would be a nice sideshow to replace the Wastefield fiasco.

    Hanley is 28 years old and only has 3 years left on his contract. At 6 feet 3 and 230 pounds, take a look at these career numbers:

    BA .306 OBP .380 SLG .506 OPS .886 HR 25  SB 41

    Most importantly career v. LP: OPS .926 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    A perfect fit and outstanding 3 year value for the Red Sox. Coming off career worst year due to first injury shortened GP. Still maturing but has alienated ownership in South Florida during his playpen years.

    Ramirez does not have any no-trade power.

    The tempestuous Reyes, a grossly inferior talent, made it a point to dig at Mets fans and management and ownership by saying he finally feels like he was wanted and appreciated. Red Sox should court Ramirez and make him feel wanted and appreciated;) Put the Ted Williams sale on him for one year in LF, after the deal is closed. Tell him if he doesn't like it they will move him back to to SS for 2013 and 2014. Once 2012 ends, tell him A-Rod was moved from SS and keep him LF. The guy is a superstar overall talent, but he is butcher in the IF.        

    Cherington would show me something if he dealt the Crawford contract seeking Ellsbury and acquired Ramirez.

    Offer Ellsbury and Lowrie for Hanley Age 28, 29 and 30:

    2012 Ramirez 15M   Ellsbury 8M  (Marlins pick up 100 or 75% of difference)
    0 net CBT increase. Marlins will accept 25% discount valuation from Ellsbury 2011 career year, and Lowrie or net combination of other minor swap prospects would be easy to make the deal amenable to both parties. Red Sox need to structure the deal to get most or all of the Ramirez net salary difference off CBT for 2012 only.

    Ramirez Cost 15M  - Lowrie 1.2M -8M Ellsbury ~ Cost = 5.8M CBT relief Red Sox need to structure off books for one year. I would think the Marlins would be happy to oblige for one year because they net 1 year of Ellsbury in 2013 at a reduced cost of about 6M from Ramirez in 2013.   

    2013 Ramirez 15.5M Ellsbury 10M (Youk 12M off books)(Middlebrooks/Aviles 3rd)
    Static Quo Costs drop a net 6 or 7M  

    2014 Ramrez 16M    Ellsbury on books elsewhere />10M(Middlebrooks/Avlies 3rd)
    Static Quo Costs drop a net 5 or 6M

    Ramirez is a better value and fit because of Crawford contract.

    Ellsbury has more value for the Marlins and Hanley has more value to the Red Sox.   

    2012 Projected Lineup:

    L Crawford RF
    R Pedroia 2B
    L Agon 1B
    R Ramirez LF
    L Ortiz DH
    R Youk 3B
    L Reddick and/or Kalish
    L/R Salty/Lavarnway C
    R Scutaro/Aviles

    v. most RP starters

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]Only a fool would trade Ellsbury and Lowrie for a shortstop who is too big to play shortstop. The Marlins signed Reyes because Hanley can't play SS any more. I'm amazed at how many "educated" Sox fans seem to know nothing about baseball.
    Posted by tartarus12[/QUOTE]
    Hanley Ramirez, who has been valued at 31.1 WAR* in 852 career games, remains under his team's control for another three seasons at a cost of $46.5 million.

    Jacoby Ellsbury, who is several months older than Ramirez, has been valued at 17.3 WAR in 507 career games and remains under his team's control for another two seasons with a projected** 2012 salary of $7.9 million.

    The proposed trade presents the classic scenario of selling high and buying low, but the Red Sox probably can't afford the added salary.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs:
    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8001&position=SS
    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4727&position=OF


    ** arbitration-year salary as projected by MLB Trade Rumors:
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/projected-arbitration-salaries.html
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    A proposed trade presents the classic scenario of selling high and buying low, but the Red Sox probably can't afford the added salary.

    Patently false.

    Youk comes off books in 2012, at 12M, for one instance. Hanley at 3 years and 15.5M most certainly can be afforded. Ellsbury will cost around 20 million over the next 2 years, and more for the 3rd year.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]You all fail on this thread - what about the more obvious answer? Miami has no desire to move Ramirez, they did not sign Reyes just to turn around and dump their biggest star for Youk and a couple of prospects. They are not spending tens of millions just to all of a sudden want to go young all in the same off-season. Miami knows it cannot top Philly's staff but they can outscore them. Stop thinking about everything from our end and gain a better perspective by seeing things from the other side. BurritoT - said this yesterday 
    Posted by DeweyLegend[/QUOTE]


    Yes I did say this.  DeweyLegend I owe you an appology for the follow-up post on your "Hanley" thread. I was trying to be sarcastic and funny after reading another poster suggesting the word "moron" not be allowed on the forum. As it often happens with me it did not come across as funny. Sorry.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    even softlaw is drinking the insane juice for making serious posts about re-acquiring Hanley. That is too bad.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Hanley is 28 years old and only has 3 years

    left on his contract. At 6 feet 3 and 230

    pounds, take a look at these career

    numbers:

    BA .306 OBP .380 SLG .506 OPS .886 HR 25
    SB 41

    Most importantly career v. LP:

    OPS .926 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Loria is spending the money, as I said before he is targeting Dominicans and that makes terrific sense on same many levels. If the local expat Cubans and other spannish speaking peoples won't go to the games en mass the team will falter financially. Hanley Ramirez stays with the Marlins through 2012 just as Ellesbury will stay here.

    2013 may be another matter depending on how Hanley adjusts and how the team draws.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from brarrell. Show brarrell's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez! : Along with being a mediocre shortstop, his bat is overrated too.  I don't get the colllective Sox fan hard on for this guy.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]


    I'd take the Ramirez of three or four years ago.  Not the shell of the player Sox fans pined for.  Agreed.  This is unhealthy.  The guy won't be much of an asset.  Sox need pitching!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]The rumor is out there that the Marlins will be looking to trade Hanley, because he is upset about losing his shortstop job.  Based on his salary and last year's performance his trade value has gone way down, and you do not have to destroy your team to get him.  The Sox desperately need a middle of the order hitter, who hits from the right side.  You trade Scutaro and his 6 million dollar contract and install Hanley at SS.  Ortiz would take this kid under his wing.  Oh and make Papi the new team captain. The question is what would it take to get Hanley?  And could Valentine deal with him?  And could Boston deal with Hanley being Hanley? 
    Posted by PapiFan[/QUOTE]

    But Ozzie just told his players it's Hanleys team :)  Should be fun to watch the next episode of Ozzie.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from No1NosMe. Show No1NosMe's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Forget Hanley ramirez! He's nothing without 'roids/HGH cocktail. He fell of the table last year. BA .243 HR 10 RBI 45 in 92 games. Suturo is better than that and not a Richard Head!
     
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