Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Now the Marlins may not get Pujols.  Meaning that the Marlins keep Hanley.  IF they trade him, they will have a huge hole in the middle of the lineup!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]http://twitter.com/#!/Buster_ESPN/status/144522680060751872 For the life of me I cannot figure out people that go on a baseball board and complain about people talking about baseball rumors or pretend they are all knowing on the subject when they have absolutely no clue. Is Buster Olney right??  Who the hell knows??  Marlins have now stated that they are not looking to trade him.  I guess a baseball team never lies???  And Pinstripe I am happy that a yankee fan feels the Sox do not need more righthanded hitting, but one of the listed priorities is getting a RH bat for the Sox for a reason.  If you look at the cumulative runs scored one could be under the misconception that the Sox do not need to improve their offense.  That would be false.  They run up the scores on bad pitching, but outside of Ellsbury, consistently struggled against top pitchers (something the 03 and 04 Sox did not).  In September there only wins seemed to happen when they scored in double digits.  So they would win 18-6 one night and lose 4-3 the next night.  They got exposed in close games with bad clutch hitting on top of getting hurt by lefty specialists because they were too lefthanded a lineup.  You cannot just blindly look at runs scored.  Just look at the Red Sox scores in September.  They could not win a close game to save their life.  Yes the bullpen is one reason, but lack of timely hitting is another big reason.
    Posted by PapiFan[/QUOTE]

    Frist of all, nearly every team in the league has gamwes where they score 18 runs one game and then 3 the next.  The only ones that don;t are the ones incapable of scoring 18 runs in the first place.

    I'm not buyng the "struggled against good pitching" excuse, either.  First of all, the ability to stop other lineups is what makes good pitching good.  Secondly, the Sox beat CC Sabathia 4 times last year.  The rest of the league beat him 4 times combined.  And he is a lefty - as in tough on lefties.

    The Sox don't need Ramirez.  I like him as a player, but this team needs 3 pitchers whose roles depend on (or define) how Bard and Aceves are used.  Ramirez two biggest weaknesses are the Sox two biggest weaknesses; he cannot pitch (I think), and he is not a good defender. 

    Last year Hanley showed up 25 pounds overweight, and never really got going.  This year, he is already demanding a trade, which might mean something if the Marlins actually cared.  I am no huge Ozzie Guillen fan, but if the man does one thing well as a manager, it is deal with malcontents. 

    Hanley will be the 3B in Florida....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]Hanley is 28 years old and only has 3 years left on his contract. At 6 feet 3 and 230 pounds, take a look at these career numbers: BA .306 OBP .380 SLG .506 OPS .886 HR 25 SB 41 Most importantly career v. LP: OPS .926 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    So is Cody Ross's.  Whats your point?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]Ellsbury and Lowrie will do it, with the Marlins paying the difference in Hanley's 14M and Ellsbury's likely 8M for 2012. Move Hanley to LF.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    When you move a guy from the most challenging to the least challenging position on the field, you gut his value.  If Hanley were still a SS, he's a great value.  For LF, consider the following two players over the past three seasons.

    Player A  .303/.380/.480/.860  OPS+ 128
    Player B  .257/.360/.479/.839  OPS+ 125

    Player A is better, but Player B will be $5M pa cheaper, and cost no players.  Hanley in LF is not a unique player.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]Forget Hanley ramirez! He's nothing without 'roids/HGH cocktail. He fell of the table last year. BA .243 HR 10 RBI 45 in 92 games. Suturo is better than that and not a Richard Head!
    Posted by No1NosMe[/QUOTE]
    Did Jacoby Ellsbury steal Hanley's cocktail?

    (That's sarcasm aimed at unsubstantiated allegations)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    L Crawford RF
    R Pedroia 2B
    L Agon 1B
    R Ramirez LF
    L Ortiz DH
    R Youk 3B
    L Reddick and/or Kalish

    So, from the looks of it, with CC in  RF, and Hanley in LF, then Reddck/Kalsih play CF?

    Even though CC has never played a game in LF, and CC has never played a game in RF, and Reddck has 8 career starts in CF.  So you want to play all 3 outfielders out of position?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Why these people think Hanley would accept moving to LF if he is traded to Boston?  Why can he play LF for the Marlins team at the same time Marlins brought in three new people where the Marlins have a good chance to win the NL East division!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]The rumor is out there that the Marlins will be looking to trade Hanley, because he is upset about losing his shortstop job.  Based on his salary and last year's performance his trade value has gone way down, and you do not have to destroy your team to get him.  The Sox desperately need a middle of the order hitter, who hits from the right side.  You trade Scutaro and his 6 million dollar contract and install Hanley at SS.  Ortiz would take this kid under his wing.  Oh and make Papi the new team captain. The question is what would it take to get Hanley?  And could Valentine deal with him?  And could Boston deal with Hanley being Hanley? 
    Posted by PapiFan[/QUOTE]


    Another unrealistic trade proposal. They just signed Reyes, why would they want another SS? And you honestly think Scutaro would net Hanley Ramirez?  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bruinsGENIUS. Show bruinsGENIUS's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Can we please just get anybody named Ramirez.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]Why these people think Hanley would accept moving to LF if he is traded to Boston?  Why can he play LF for the Marlins team at the same time Marlins brought in three new people where the Marlins have a good chance to win the NL East division!!
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]

    And a quick dose of common sense just ended that fantasy.

    If Hanley wants out becuase he is changing positions, why would anyone acquire him with the intent of changing his position?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    So is Cody Ross's. Whats your point?

    My point is that Cody Ross cannot do what Hanley can do, in addition to inferior v LP career OPS. You admit that, I'm sure, in your flippant comment.

    Even though CC has never played a game in LF

    In the cups, Joe?

    BTW, baseball is about value and fit. You forget fit. Hanley is a lousy SS, so imagine the value Pujols would have at SS. Don't be catatonic and be disagreeable.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    for those who may remember me, im a diehard marlins fan and always have been and i repeat, the marlins arent trading hanley and according to his twitter account he is working hard to rehab his shoulder and be ready for the season

    loria has a man crush on hanley and short of hanly committing several felonies will not let him leave the marlins under any reasonable circumstances...i just wanted to be clear to all those who say it could happen...sorry...no
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]So is Cody Ross's. Whats your point? My point is that Cody Ross cannot do what Hanley can do, in addition to inferior v LP career OPS. You admit that, I'm sure, in your flippant comment. Even though CC has never played a game in LF In the cups, Joe? BTW, baseball is about value and fit. You forget fit. Hanley is a lousy SS, so imagine the value Pujols would have at SS. Don't be catatonic and be disagreeable.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Actually Ross career OPS vs LHP is the just about the same as Hanley's.  Ross has a .921.  If you think there is a difference between two players with a .005 difference in OPS, you are mistaken.

    Your major selling point on Hanley was his OPS vs LHP.  OK, but what take on 3 years and $45mill when, if all you want is OPS vs LHP, Cody Ross can do it for much, much less.

    Heck, if you are so obsessed with OPS vs LHP, I don't get why you don't like Jed Lowrie.  Jed has a .919 OPS vs LHP and won't cost anywhere near Hanley, either.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    28 years old and Ross is .912, not .921.

    My major selling point is that Hanley fits a major short and long term need, and also is a elite talent over the full offensive skillset. Ross is not.

    Lowrie hasn't finished a season, ever, and can do nothing else adequately.

    And for the begging Marlin fan, the Marlins are in fact soliciting trade offers for Hanley, as I said they would. Finding a deal that suits both parties is not a guarantee, but Hanley's days in Miami are running out. If not this winter, it won't be long. Trying to back load and win and then trade and sell is a product of a lousy baseball market that Florida will always be. The current moves are designed to sell tickets for the new livining room and pay debt, but it won't be long before the obvious sale will follow. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]28 years old and Ross is .912, not .921. My major selling point is that Hanley fits a major short and long term need, and also is a elite talent over the full offensive skillset. Ross is not. Lowrie hasn't finished a season, ever, and can do nothing else adequately. And for the begging Marlin fan, the Marlins are in fact soliciting trade offers for Hanley, as I said they would. Finding a deal that suits both parties is not a guarantee, but Hanley's days in Miami are running out. If not this winter, it won't be long. Trying to back load and win and then trade and sell is a product of a lousy baseball market that Florida will always be. The current moves are designed to sell tickets for the new livining room and pay debt, but it won't be long before the obvious sale will follow. 
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]
    uh, no they arent...need proof? look at the hardware loria bought hanley for his batting title...that isnt a thank you for playing for my team gift, thats a full on...ill swap my kid for your kid kinda bromance

    aside from cali and maybe texas, most american baseball players were born, grew up, are from or currently reside in florida...and with no income tax, they can give big contracts without fear the player having to pay a lot back...big contracts=talent worth keeping around=competitive baseball teams=something the marlins can capitalize on with the dolphins going nowhere and the canes still struggling to regain form
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    You are delusional and have been sleeping for 20 years. Florida is not a quality MLB baseball market, and never will be.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]You are delusional and have been sleeping for 20 years. Florida is not a quality MLB baseball market, and never will be.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    really? then why are the marlins usually in the top 15 in ratings? and thats with sometimes lousy teams

    i was at the marlins-sox series back here a few year back and there were upwards of a hundred marlins jerseys i saw...in boston...sure we dont have the northern snowbirds like the sox do, but to deny that there is a following of a team that supports a major metropolitan area is a naive
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    The Marlins are in the bottom five of ratings. The Marlins are a troubled market with a bottom of the barrel franchise value. Taxpayers financing a new living room does not build value and brand. Corporate MLB franchise in Miami will not survive in the new economy in the long term. Current lawsuit financing fiasco is quite fitting for a parasitic MLB market that is a ward of other MLB markets.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    28 years old and Ross is .912, not .921. 

    Yeah, .912 should be benched.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    It helps that the Marlins barely paid a dime for it. Nearly 80 percent of the $634 million spent comes from taxpayer money — a deal that went down without a public vote and still has Miami residents shaking their heads. About all the Marlins have to do is buy enough players to field a team and hire enough accountants to tally up the cash they hope comes flowing in.

    It's a time-honored strategy in baseball. Fleece the community once to get it built, then make them dig deeper to get in.

    It works. For a time.

    The new ballpark surely will draw sellout crowds at first, with fans packing in to watch the fish and feed the fish. But once the new smell wears off, the future is less certain. It's a lesson the Mets and Nationals have painfully learned, and it could be even worse in a town where the Marlins couldn't even draw fans when they were winning the World Series.

    "There's no guarantee fans will financially support the Marlins for years to come," said Wayne McDonnell, a business of baseball professor at New York University. "You'll have a nice honeymoon the first year, but I don't think it's sustainable in the long run."

    If it's not, the back-loaded contract signed by Reyes is even more perplexing. Three years from now, the former Mets shortstop with a history of injuries will be making $22 million — more than the entire payroll of the Marlins just five years ago in the wake of one of Loria's salary dumps.

    "What happens when you're consistently getting 15-to-20,000 in a ballpark when you need 35,000 to make payroll?" McDonnell said during a telephone interview from Dallas. "The running joke around here at the winter meetings is that two years from now, when the meetings are in Orlando, is where Loria will have his fire sale."

    For Loria, it seems to be all about making a splash and making people forget how awful it's been for Marlins fans over the years. He has a new manager in the colorful Ozzie Guillen, some very colorful new uniforms and even a new name — the Florida Marlins are now the Miami Marlins.

    Maybe he figures it will make fans forget about long afternoons sitting in the rain at Sun Life Stadium, where the Marlins sold 19,000 tickets a game last season, though not nearly that many people showed up to claim their seats. Indeed, a writer at an August doubleheader counted a grand total of 347 fans when the opening pitch was made.

    One thing fans likely won't forget is the controversy over stadium financing, which has already cost the former mayor of the county his job in a recall vote. It doesn't help that there's an ongoing Securities and Exchange Commission investigation into the nearly $500 million in bond sales to build the place. The SEC didn't announce what it was looking for, but asked for voluminous records on the financing as well as records of campaign contributions from the Marlins to area politicians.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Giving up Youk solves zip.  Hanley is an overweight tool.  He put on 20lbs last year, and he aint no Prince Fielder.   He can't field, can't hit, he's out of shape, and is considered a clubhouse liability ....

    WHY ARE THERE EVEN DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HIM?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Maybe we can re-aquire Brian Rose... he seemed like a good player.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    Marlins are making a serious run at 2012...they are loading up on talent and have no intention of trading away their best bat.

    I would not be surprised if they shop Hanley NEXT winter....but not this year.  Even if it was plausible they would likely want MLB ready talent by why would we trade away an Ellsbury/Youkilis etc etc when the most pressing concern for this team is PITCHING.

    Florida doesn't have a clear cut center fielder (I believe) so hypothetically it could be a fit, but I feel Miami is confident that Emilio Bonifacio could lock down the position, amongst other young talent.  I also still consider Miami a big candidate to land Cespeds, seeing how their is a large Cuban market in Miami.

    Regardless I think my point is not what we should, could or would do....but what Miami is doing.  I highly doubt they trade away any talent this offseason....they are in fullblown buy a championship mode.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PaulLaCourse. Show PaulLaCourse's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]A poster named softlaw was on here years ago saying that the Marlins would try and shop Hanley when the balloon payment hit in 2012. Jasko claimed it would never happen because Hanley was signed to open new stadium. Needless to say, Hanley most certainly is being shopped, even if Marlins don't find an acceptable trade partner. Most people are truly clueless about baseball business. Manny was on 2 title teams, for those worried about a troublemaker personaility. Hanley would fit perfectly in LF, and listening to him whine would be a nice sideshow to replace the Wastefield fiasco. Hanley is 28 years old and only has 3 years left on his contract. At 6 feet 3 and 230 pounds, take a look at these career numbers: BA .306 OBP .380 SLG .506 OPS .886 HR 25  SB 41 Most importantly career v. LP: OPS .926 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A perfect fit and outstanding 3 year value for the Red Sox. Coming off career worst year due to first injury shortened GP. Still maturing but has alienated ownership in South Florida during his playpen years. Ramirez does not have any no-trade power. The tempestuous Reyes, a grossly inferior talent, made it a point to dig at Mets fans and management and ownership by saying he finally feels like he was wanted and appreciated. Red Sox should court Ramirez and make him feel wanted and appreciated;) Put the Ted Williams sale on him for one year in LF, after the deal is closed. Tell him if he doesn't like it they will move him back to to SS for 2013 and 2014. Once 2012 ends, tell him A-Rod was moved from SS and keep him LF. The guy is a superstar overall talent, but he is butcher in the IF.         Cherington would show me something if he dealt the Crawford contract seeking Ellsbury and acquired Ramirez. Offer Ellsbury and Lowrie for Hanley Age 28, 29 and 30: 2012 Ramirez 15M   Ellsbury 8M  (Marlins pick up 100 or 75% of difference) 0 net CBT increase. Marlins will accept 25% discount valuation from Ellsbury 2011 career year, and Lowrie or net combination of other minor swap prospects would be easy to make the deal amenable to both parties. Red Sox need to structure the deal to get most or all of the Ramirez net salary difference off CBT for 2012 only. Ramirez Cost 15M  - Lowrie 1.2M -8M Ellsbury ~ Cost = 5.8M CBT relief Red Sox need to structure off books for one year. I would think the Marlins would be happy to oblige for one year because they net 1 year of Ellsbury in 2013 at a reduced cost of about 6M from Ramirez in 2013.    2013 Ramirez 15.5M Ellsbury 10M (Youk 12M off books)(Middlebrooks/Aviles 3rd) Static Quo Costs drop a net 6 or 7M   2014 Ramrez 16M    Ellsbury on books elsewhere />10M(Middlebrooks/Avlies 3rd) Static Quo Costs drop a net 5 or 6M Ramirez is a better value and fit because of Crawford contract. Ellsbury has more value for the Marlins and Hanley has more value to the Red Sox.    2012 Projected Lineup: L Crawford RF R Pedroia 2B L Agon 1B R Ramirez LF L Ortiz DH R Youk 3B L Reddick and/or Kalish L/R Salty/Lavarnway C R Scutaro/Aviles v. most RP starters  
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Hank, are you schizo? You are Softlaw and everyone knows it.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!

    In Response to Re: Trade for Hanley Ramirez!:
    [QUOTE]Marlins are making a serious run at 2012...they are loading up on talent and have no intention of trading away their best bat. I would not be surprised if they shop Hanley NEXT winter....but not this year.  Even if it was plausible they would likely want MLB ready talent by why would we trade away an Ellsbury/Youkilis etc etc when the most pressing concern for this team is PITCHING. Florida doesn't have a clear cut center fielder (I believe) so hypothetically it could be a fit, but I feel Miami is confident that Emilio Bonifacio could lock down the position, amongst other young talent.  I also still consider Miami a big candidate to land Cespeds, seeing how their is a large Cuban market in Miami. Regardless I think my point is not what we should, could or would do....but what Miami is doing.  I highly doubt they trade away any talent this offseason....they are in fullblown buy a championship mode.
    Posted by ctredsoxfanhugh[/QUOTE]
    i still dont see it as buy a championship mode though, they are taking on a higher payroll yes, but more or less have just improved upon positions where they were already strong...i mean johnson, nolasco, hanley, anibal sanchez, gaby sanchez, a lot of the bullpen, infante, buck are all pieces added in previous years

    the marlins have taken on 3 free agents which they probably overpaid for and they lost out on pujols and wilson...it just shows they are willing to pay, but not overpay and they most definitely are trying to be the yankees south, so if you people(in general, not just you) think they are going to be trading away pieces (unless they are completely awful and need to break it apart)then you are all crazy and this is a team that can compete with bounce back years from guys like hanley and josh johnson
     

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