Trade our staff for theirs?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Trade our staff for theirs?

     Would you swap Beckett, Buch, Lester, Bard, and Douby for Strasburg, Jordan Zimmermann, Gio Gonzales, Edwin Jackson and Chien-Ming Wang?...
     Think about the question marks for the Sox, do they have more to prove than the Nats starters?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from teilhardian. Show teilhardian's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    No. But the Red Sox rotation is still suspect...If Bard succeeds, he leaves a questionable bullpen finish...If he fails, the Red Sox need another starter...If the Red Sox get Oswalt or a similar starter, then they are in far better shape...Really, it is the weak Red Sox middle relief that is most likely to kill them...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    I always go with my guys over the others no matter what. Now trading one or two of ours for three of theirs would be okay Cool
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    Well, the Nats have put together, on paper, a pretty solid rotation.  And the Sox, of course, have big qiestion marks.

    But, I don't see what that has to do with having more or less to prove.  Of course the Sox staff (rotataion), after last year's debacle has much to prove.  And the Nats actually don't have much to prove at all.  People are maybe a little excited about them, but expectations are generally not high for them.  Its just not even the same stratosphere of expectation.  And even if the Sox came into camp with prime Pedro, prime Schill, Beckett, Lester and the ghost of CyYoung, given that they didn't make the playoffs last year, there would still much something to prove.

    Comparing Sox and Nats staffs is straight apples and oranges.

    And, in the abstract, no I wouldn't trade theirs for ours.  Strasburg is a rare talent and the acquisition of jackson gives them a very solid starting 5.  But I'll take my AL East battle tested boys thank you.  I just don't think you can underestimate that factor.  My test case for the AL Beast factor this year is Kuroda.  I am betting his innings eating workhorse rep from the NL West doesn't hold up so well this year.  We shall see.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortMeade. Show FortMeade's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    In Response to Trade our staff for theirs?:
    [QUOTE] Would you swap Beckett, Buch, Lester, Bard, and Douby for Strasburg, Jordan Zimmermann, Gio Gonzales, Edwin Jackson and Chien-Ming Wang?...  Think about the question marks for the Sox, do they have more to prove than the Nats starters?
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]

    Yes the Sox rotation has more to prove but this isn't fantasy baseball or poker where you ask the dealer for five new cards. This is your team and the team that you are stuck with ( dealt). Would you swap three of your five children to the neighbor down the street that have blue eyes and blonde hair and great figures?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    Are you considering payroll in the equation?  

    If the answer is no, then I'd prefer ours.  The two best of the group are Beckett and Lester.

    If the answer is yes, then maybe yes.  We'd have some payroll savings there.

    If you take it to the next logical step and include October, then I'd rather have ours, regardless of payroll concerns.

    I think one of the key questions you always have to ask is, who do you want on the mound against the EE?  If the answer isn't Beckett, then we likely aren't having a real debate.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    The only two teams' rotations I would even think about swapping the entire rotation is Giants  and Phillies.  Yes our rotation has big question mark.  However this rotation has more than enough potential to change that question mark to exclamation mark.  We just have to trust and cheer for them.  What else can we do?? nothing....

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs?:
    [QUOTE]The only two teams' rotations I would even think about swapping the entire rotation is Giants  and Phillies.  Yes our rotation has big question mark.  However this rotation has more than enough potential to change that question mark to exclamation mark.  We just have to trust and cheer for them.  What else can we do?? nothing....
    Posted by seannybboi[/QUOTE]What about the Yanks rotation? Not a Yankee fan but come on.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs? : What about the Yanks rotation? Not a Yankee fan but come on.

    Posted by Hingham Hammer[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs? :
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Pike/Lowell/Fortmeade....do you not see the irony??
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs? : What about the Yanks rotation? Not a Yankee fan but come on.
    Posted by Hingham Hammer[/QUOTE]

    I don't think he meant to say it would be worse to have the Yankee rotation; he said he wouldn't want to swap.

    Would you? I don't want Sabathia at 5 years, $127M...too much money for too long for a pitcher who could (emphasis on could, I think he'll be fine but you never know) have weight/health issues. Lester is virtually the same pitcher, and he'll make less than $35M total over the next three years, while Sabathia will earn $23M just next year.

    Pineda is a tremendous piece to have, though he has a transition to go through. Buchholz is further along the salary line and has less overall potential, but it's not a crazy difference (though certainly in NY's favor).

    Kuroda is a one year contract whom the Sox could have pursued if desired. I'll take Beckett over that...Beckett may have his ups and downs, but he's a great playoff pitcher who can be a true AL East ace any given season, and three years, $15.75M salary isn't bad at all.

    Nova vs. Bard? Again, pretty much a wash...Nova has more cost control and is already set as a starter, but he may never be more than a #4 starter. Bard could be an excellent SP who will at least be an elite bullpen piece if he can't cut it as a SP.

    Garcia/Hughes is an aged veteran and a still-young SP who has health issues and won't be cheap much longer ($3.2M for this year and will be a FA after 2013). Nothing special there, as Doubront/Aceves is also used but nothing special.

    It's either a wash or comes down to personal preference...I wouldn't fault anyone for preferring either rotation over the other, but you can't say one is clearly preferable.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    Everyone knows that I am a Red Sox fan, I am not a Yankee fan who frequents a Red Sox forum all day pretending to be a Red Sox fan as this newbie Hingham Hammer does. Tell Dottie that he is an imposter, Get on your red phone.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs?:
    [QUOTE]Everyone knows that I am a Red Sox fan, I am not a Yankee fan who frequents a Red Sox forum all day pretending to be a Red Sox fan as this newbie Hingham Hammer does. Tell Dottie that he is an imposter, Get on your red phone.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Pike, your investigative skills are slipping. HH was on the "side board" as you refer to it. He is who he says he is.  Dottie, he is an imposter... but it's not HH.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs? : What about the Yanks rotation? Not a Yankee fan but come on.
    Posted by Hingham Hammer[/QUOTE]

    I wouldn't trade.  They have a better regular season rotation, but which of those guys do you give the ball to in the playoffs?  I wouldn't necessarily disagree with someone saying we have to make the playoffs first, but in any important game, I'd prefer Beckett and lester over CC, or anyone else on the NYY.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    Redsoxu571--
    CC and Lester--agreed on the money and maybe even the potential quality but not on the track record.
    Pineda--an unknown factor in the AL East so won't speculate. Buch until further notice is a hurt guy trying to come back from a bad back.
    Kuroda--not much else to go on but his record.
    Bard and Nova a wash? if Bard puts up Nova's 2011 #s this year, then it's a wash. Until then, that's a very broad optimistic leap.
    Garcia did his thing in 2011 very well.  Can't put Doubront up against Garcia's #s  until he does the same. Hughes, who knows? Aceves--great asset but he's a long reliever. When the Yanks tried to stretch him out as a starter, he blew out his back.

    Can see why a Sox fan wouldn't trade their guys for someone else's much less the Yanks, but I'd guarantee 1000% that Cashman wouldn't trade his rotation for the Sox.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    On the other hand...I'd take the TB Price/Shields/Niemann/Hellickson/Moore rotation in a heartbeat.

    Price- Basically Lester, only makes $4.35M this year, not a FA until 2016(!)
    Shields- No worse than Beckett, will make $7M this year, then $9M, then $12M.
    Niemann- Very solid back-end rotation pitcher, will make only $2.75M this year, not a FA until 2015
    Hellickson- Similar to Buchholz, has two years before he even starts arbitration and won't be a FA until 2017(!)
    Moore- Arguably the best prospect in baseball, likely no worse than a Beckett, will make $1M this year, then $1M, then $1M, then $3M, then $7M, and then has team options for $7M, $9M, and $10M (in 2019!!!)

    The Phillie rotation is expensive and aging (but awesome), the Giant rotation is getting very expensive, very fast (plus you'd be stuck with Zito)...TB's rotation is young, very good, AL East tested (except for Moore, to be answered this year) and incredible cost controlled. If Boston had this rotation, the would have ridiculous financial flexibility for the rest of the team, PLUS money left over to get SPs to fill out the rotation in the even of injury or loss of effectiveness. Crazy good...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    I think the question of the OP should have been "Do the Nationals have a better pitching staff than the Red Sox?" My answer no. I think Gio Gonzalez will experience some tough times pitching outside The Coliseum. Strasburg is coming off Tommy John, Jackson is very inconsistent and Wang??? I also like our bullpen more than the Nats.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs? : Pike, your investigative skills are slipping. HH was on the "side board" as you refer to it. He is who he says he is.  Dottie, he is an imposter... but it's not HH.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    It appears that you also think that I am Kim. I have no idea of what she means by "sidebar". Kim is on here from midnight to 7 am. I am sleeping during those hours. I have a gut feeling that Harness is having fun doing the Kim routine. Anyone with those posting hours could be doing the Kim routine. We have a large contingent on here from the Northwest.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kannaman. Show kannaman's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    Beckett, Lester and Buchholz are as good as any other team's top 3...except for maybe Phillies ..Halliday, Lee and Hamels. I like Tampa Bays rotation but Shields, Price and Hellickson aren't better...maybe close to equal and cheaper but not better. NY has CC, Kuroda and Nova or maybe Pineda...CC is a proven commodity the rest of those guys are question marks ...Nova had a great year but a lot of people are saying they expect a regression this year. The Giants have Lincecum, Cain and Sanchez...that's a great trio but I would like to see what they would do in the ALE. The Angels have a very deep staff...Weaver, Haren, Wilson and Santana....but if healthy I think their top three is argueably equal to the Sox. Far as the 4 and 5 starters go if Bard end's up starting he has a chance to be really good, I mean he has a #1 type arm...how many innings he can throw will be determined by a lot of variables but he is big and strong and plenty of other guys have converted from RP to SP. Aceves could also be in the mix...but if he doesn't make the grade as a starter he will strengthen the pen and is very useful as a long RP. The Sox have brought in a ridiculous amount of pitchers to fight it out for the fifth spot....Doubrant, Miller, Cook, Padilla, Silva, Mortenson, Wilson...one or two of them will step up and do the job.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    No disrespect to the Nats, but if Josh Johnson is healthy, I would rank their staff fourth in the NL East.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    In Response to Trade our staff for theirs?:
    [QUOTE] Would you swap Beckett, Buch, Lester, Bard, and Douby for Strasburg, Jordan Zimmermann, Gio Gonzales, Edwin Jackson and Chien-Ming Wang?...  Think about the question marks for the Sox, do they have more to prove than the Nats starters?
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]

    My bet is Lackey ends up getting bought out/traded like AJ next season because I just don't feel "even if healthy" he can compete with the big boys.  Once this happens, or we trade a few prospects for a guy like Garza I wouldn't trade our staff for anyones including the Phils.

    Good luck to Bard, he could be our difference maker this season without Lackey out there.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    About the Yankees and Rays rotations swapping, they are very good rotations.  However, I wouldn't PERSONALLY swap for our rotation.  If our top 3 can be focused and stay healthy, Lester, Beckett, and Bucholz could all be in the CY Young award winner mix.  And plus, If for some reason we do swap for either Rays or Yanks rotation, we have to face our own rotation all year long... I don't want that...
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Trade our staff for theirs?

    In Response to Re: Trade our staff for theirs?:
    [QUOTE]On the other hand...I'd take the TB Price/Shields/Niemann/Hellickson/Moore rotation in a heartbeat. Price- Basically Lester, only makes $4.35M this year, not a FA until 2016(!) Shields- No worse than Beckett, will make $7M this year, then $9M, then $12M. Niemann- Very solid back-end rotation pitcher, will make only $2.75M this year, not a FA until 2015 Hellickson- Similar to Buchholz, has two years before he even starts arbitration and won't be a FA until 2017(!) Moore- Arguably the best prospect in baseball, likely no worse than a Beckett, will make $1M this year, then $1M, then $1M, then $3M, then $7M, and then has team options for $7M, $9M, and $10M (in 2019!!!) The Phillie rotation is expensive and aging (but awesome), the Giant rotation is getting very expensive, very fast (plus you'd be stuck with Zito)...TB's rotation is young, very good, AL East tested (except for Moore, to be answered this year) and incredible cost controlled. If Boston had this rotation, the would have ridiculous financial flexibility for the rest of the team, PLUS money left over to get SPs to fill out the rotation in the even of injury or loss of effectiveness. Crazy good...
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]

    I'd take the 7 Rays starting pitchers over the Sox top 7 starters even if they were paid the same! Look at the ages, prime years of team control, recent performance, and projected production.

           Rays                Sox
    1) Shields           Beckett
    2) Price               Lester
    3) Hellickson      Buch
    4) Niemann        Bard
    5) Moore             Aceves
    6) W Davis          Doubront
    7) Alex Cobb      Dice-KPadilla/Cook?


     
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