Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dustcover. Show dustcover's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Drew and Iglesias are a wash

    It will be unfortunate to watch Iglesias play slick D year after year when Peavy has long since retired

    but

    We get 1.5 years of Peavy for him, he's a big upgrade to Dempster and for a team that hopes to contend next year as well is worth it. Who knows, Jake is only 32, he could be here past that.

    If the Sox win the World Series and Peavy has a good start in game 4 this deal would be a similar 1 for 1 swap as Beckett/Lowell for Anibal/Hanley was as far as instant impact of older players while the younger ones are still kicking years later.

    [/QUOTE]


    Absolutely.  But the unanswerable questions remain, (1) could the Sox in 2007 have won without Beckett, (2) could the Sox have acquired Lowell sans Beckett without giving up Ramirez and Sanchez, and (3) would the Sox, with Hanley and Anibal, achieved more in the long run.  But, I do so love debating these issues.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In Iggy's defense,  it was not a routine play.  Looking at the replay, the ball bounced over the bag but never touched it.  I think Iggy was playing for the bounce that never  came and it threw him  off.  In any event, I don't think there's any way they double up Ellsbury, so instead of being a grand slam it would ahve been a three-run homer and we win 4-2.

    And yes, Iggy is a big reason why we're here.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    What this proves is that Pros, allstars or not, are human.

    The top of our lineup, Ells, Vic, Pedey and Ortiz were the main reason, I think, in addition to pitching, of course, why we beat Tampa.  The top of the lineup, especially Victorino who before Game 6 there was talk of him hitting at the end of the lineup.

    If I were not such a fanatic Sox fan, I'd felt sorry for Scherzer who deserved a better fate. Many of us were unhappy with Naps' strike outs but his 2 HRs were critical. Victorino was 2 for 20 something and he was in a slump & hopefully he's out of it for the next series. Drew's offense was pathetic but he paid his way with great defense especially in game 6 with 2 men on and Cabrera up. Ross contributed in Game 5 and is a VG defensive catcher. Zander had ice water in his veins waiting out to get 2 walks and then a double. I'd continue to play him instead of Middy. Salty, hopefully will come alive & provide some power with a HR(s), double etc. I'd play Gomes as much as possible. Hey, Pedey missed getting us a 3 run lead by inches and I forgive his bobble in game 4 with his defense tonight. OK, I'm rambling. Do we pitch Peavy in Game 4 ? I say, yes, but on a very short lease.  In short, not too many played consistently fantastically offensively and defensively due to the pressure perhaps or the human nature of getting in a slump. Who, did excel, throughout, however, were Lester especially in Game 1 loss 1-0 and then Breslow & Koji.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Absurd?  Drew made a brilliant play last night that saved at least one run.  He also made an outstanding play in Game 5 on the double play where Lester almost threw it away.

    Drew's defence is keeping him in the lineup.  It's the right move.

    [/QUOTE]

    I figured that after last night's defensive play, questions about why Drew was still in the line up would be answered once and for all, if they hadn't already been answered after the great defense in Game 5.

    Nothing against Bogaerts, but I really like Drew's veteran presence in the field for these games.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    +1 to you as well. In season games are one thing, but in the playoffs, especially the WS in critical times we need veteran leadership as well as very strong defense which Drew gives. Middlebrooks is the odd player out. As much as I support Middy, I don't understand his whining about not being in the lineup either. It shows a bit of being self centered at a time when players need to be totally team oriented. I'm hoping Farrel sits him down now or after the season for a conversation behind closed doors. The team comes first always, not a players feelings. 

    Hetch

    [/QUOTE]

    Middy was whining about not being in the lineup?  Hadn't heard about that.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    as far as Iggy goes, i do kinda feel bad for the kid kickin the ball that allowed IVC to hit it out

    You have no credibility. He gloved the ball and tried to do a non-transfer pitch back to the 2nd baseman to get the double play which it's highly unlikely he gets, but he's a genius and saw it as a chance to make a spectular double play on Ellsbury. If he makes the easy play, it's 2 outs and Shane hits the hanging curve out and the Red Sox win anyway.

    Someone said that "Iglesias committed 2 errors that cost games". None of his errors cost any games at all. S. Drew committed an error last night, that was scored a hit. S. Drew was an embarrassment the entire series. The "he's playing for his defense" was a shallow excuse. Middlebrooks should be at 3rd and Bogaerts at SS.

    The Tigers lost this series because of manager incompetence. Pitching to Ortiz in Game 2, 2 outs, 8th inning, up 5-1, based loaded, was ultimate incompetence, in light of not using the lefty pen arm that was left. Tigers win the series if not for Leyland's incompetence, which carried forward to last night.

    The series was evenly matched with Miggy injured, and it played out that way with the managers being the difference in the series outcome.

    Job not done.  



    Iggy will have a long career as a late inning replacement if he doesn't cut it as a starter but that is that what this thread is about. It is simply about his two costly errors. Just stop spinning at this point. Yes Iggy is a great fielder but it is ok that for 6 games October Drew played much better defense. The Sox won be happy, even though you lost.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He gloved the ball and tried to do a non-transfer pitch back to the 2nd baseman to get the double play which it's highly unlikely he gets, but he's a genius and saw it as a chance to make a spectular double play on Ellsbury. If he makes the easy play, it's 2 outs and Shane hits the hanging curve out and the Red Sox win anyway.


    He did not try to glove flip it to the 2Bman.. he muffed the play and even said so..

    But things sped up on him. He chased it down, just on the right side of the bag, but found himself in an awkward position. When he went to make the toss to second baseman Omar Infante, he realized he didn't have a baseball to throw.

    "I felt it in my glove and then after that, I didn't feel it no more," Iglesias said.


    Someone said that "Iglesias committed 2 errors that cost games". None of his errors cost any games at all. S. Drew committed an error last night, that was scored a hit. S. Drew was an embarrassment the entire series. The "he's playing for his defense" was a shallow excuse. Middlebrooks should be at 3rd and Bogaerts at SS.

    if he did end up making the DP then the entire Victorino AB changes. the pitcher is not trying to induce a DP ball or shallow pop-up by throwing curveballs. therefore a hanging breakingball is unlikely to get thrown and maybe we don't take the lead or tie it. So yes, Iggys clear as day error set up the GS and led to the tigers demise. When the Sox win the WS Iggy deserves a ring for helping the sox even after his departure from the team

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    If Drew had made the erros Iggy made...

    if iggy made the diving play Drew made...

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In response to Chicagofire's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We won't know who was right on the Iggy for Peavy trade for years.

    [/QUOTE]


    thats BS. The trade was to help the Sox get deep into the post season this year. They did that. its a win. Maybe Iggy will become a great all around player one day. who cares. Our objective was this year. We have Bogaerts for the next 6 years, so Iggy was expendable.

    Iggy's talent brought us a pitcher that went 4-1 with a WHIP of 1.1 and holding opponents to a .664OPS. He dominated Tampa and had one bad outing vs. Detroit, but he was a big part of getting us here and stepping in to take Clays place when Dempster and Doubie were floundering.

    We are in the WS, so to me the trade was a win. If we win the WS its just an adeed bonus. Detroits objective was for the long term, ours was for the short term because we already have our SS of the future in Bogaerts.

    So basically, Detroit will know if this trade was a win for them in a few years because its already a win for us.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nothing in the series changes  if Iggy made the errors Drew made, and Drew made the "diving plays because of weak range" that Drew made. 

    [/QUOTE]

    The error in game 2 was the type of error I warned against earlier in the season - he has the range to get to the ball, but not the experience to put it in his pocket.  The result is the leadoff hitter on second base in the bottom of the ninth in a tie game.  In a couple of years, he'll be the best fielding SS in the league, but right now I'd rather have Drew out there defensively.

    I do agree with you that the Tigers were horribly managed though - not just in-game decisions, but they made mistake after mistake in the field and on the base-paths.  They looked like a team with trememdous talent, totally unprepared for a quality opponent.  I have never thought of Jim Leyland as a bad manager, but the problems facing that team have nothing to do with the quality of its players.

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    Someone here (under a new name, but I have a good idea who it is) said I "live and die" by stats. Obviously that "person" hasnt a clue since I was the one telling people before the start of the year to nevermind the defensive metrics because Stephen Drew is a much much better defender than his stats would say. Looks like he proved me right this year. As ive ALWAYS said, you have to have the proper balance between all the stats and the human element in this great game.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    The Iglesias bashing is laughable. He messed up the play, but it was not an easy chance and there was not going to be a double play in any case. The Tigers lost the series because Cabrera and Fielder were well contained , and their bullpen failed them . The Sox came up with the clutch hits and lights out relief pitching. Detroit did not.  Blaming Iglesias is not right. By the way , Iglesias, who we all know can't hit despite hitting .300 for the year, hit .357 for the series, second only to Victor Martinez. The kid was traded. He didn't ask for it. He didn't walk away as a free agent. He didn't slam the team for dealing him. The sudden dislike for him is irrational. Is it just because some of us thought Iglesias for Peavy was a bad deal? 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Iglesias bashing is laughable. He messed up the play, but it was not an easy chance and there was not going to be a double play in any case. The Tigers lost the series because Cabrera and Fielder were well contained , and their bullpen failed them . The Sox came up with the clutch hits and lights out relief pitching. Detroit did not.  Blaming Iglesias is not right. By the way , Iglesias, who we all know can't hit despite hitting .300 for the year, hit .357 for the series, second only to Victor Martinez. The kid was traded. He didn't ask for it. He didn't walk away as a free agent. He didn't slam the team for dealing him. The sudden dislike for him is irrational. Is it just because some of us thought Iglesias for Peavy was a bad deal? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, but it's a little more than that.  'Some of you' lavished so much hype on Iggy's ability that it reached the point of irritating overkill.  Some of it is confirmation bias, no doubt, I want Cherington to be proven right because he's my GM and I support him.  

     

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    who made the last out of the series?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Chicagofire's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We won't know who was right on the Iggy for Peavy trade for years.

    [/QUOTE]


    thats BS. The trade was to help the Sox get deep into the post season this year. They did that. its a win. Maybe Iggy will become a great all around player one day. who cares. Our objective was this year. We have Bogaerts for the next 6 years, so Iggy was expendable.

    Iggy's talent brought us a pitcher that went 4-1 with a WHIP of 1.1 and holding opponents to a .664OPS. He dominated Tampa and had one bad outing vs. Detroit, but he was a big part of getting us here and stepping in to take Clays place when Dempster and Doubie were floundering.

    We are in the WS, so to me the trade was a win. If we win the WS its just an adeed bonus. Detroits objective was for the long term, ours was for the short term because we already have our SS of the future in Bogaerts.

    So basically, Detroit will know if this trade was a win for them in a few years because its already a win for us.

    [/QUOTE]

    you forgot to mention that Peavy is also under contract next year too! Anything he gives us in 2014 is gravy IMO.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Iglesias bashing is laughable. He messed up the play, but it was not an easy chance and there was not going to be a double play in any case. The Tigers lost the series because Cabrera and Fielder were well contained , and their bullpen failed them . The Sox came up with the clutch hits and lights out relief pitching. Detroit did not.  Blaming Iglesias is not right. By the way , Iglesias, who we all know can't hit despite hitting .300 for the year, hit .357 for the series, second only to Victor Martinez. The kid was traded. He didn't ask for it. He didn't walk away as a free agent. He didn't slam the team for dealing him. The sudden dislike for him is irrational. Is it just because some of us thought Iglesias for Peavy was a bad deal? 

    [/QUOTE]


    You keep saying things like "sudden dislike" when most of us on here thought he was overated all along.

    Anyway, two HUGE errors in 4 games. Series is over. Iggy hurt his team.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Iglesias bashing is laughable. He messed up the play, but it was not an easy chance and there was not going to be a double play in any case. The Tigers lost the series because Cabrera and Fielder were well contained , and their bullpen failed them . The Sox came up with the clutch hits and lights out relief pitching. Detroit did not.  Blaming Iglesias is not right. By the way , Iglesias, who we all know can't hit despite hitting .300 for the year, hit .357 for the series, second only to Victor Martinez. The kid was traded. He didn't ask for it. He didn't walk away as a free agent. He didn't slam the team for dealing him. The sudden dislike for him is irrational. Is it just because some of us thought Iglesias for Peavy was a bad deal? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, but it's a little more than that.  'Some of you' lavished so much hype on Iggy's ability that it reached the point of irritating overkill.  Some of it is confirmation bias, no doubt, I want Cherington to be proven right because he's my GM and I support him.  

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    People, including dgale, Built Iggy up to be WAY better than he is.  So then he makes two HUGE errors and it is our fault for pointing out, once again, that Iggy isn't that good.

    I don't think we will hear much about Iggy on here anymore.

    Ever.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Two gigantic errors by Iglesias when it counts

    I missed the "frat chat" and the posting that's gone on since because I was out of town.  I learned a long time ago that when you son says, "Dad, want to come and watch a game with me?", you don't say no. 

    Since I've been a big Iggy supporter since Day 1 I feel obligated to come here and take my lumps. I felt all along that Iggy could be instrumental in winning playoff games but I didn't expect it to be done the way it was.  Smile

    A few observations now, if I may.

    Those people who are bashing Drew and want him on the bench are those people who value offense over defense.  Drew has played a solid SS all year and has gotten some key hits at key times throughout the season.  Fortunately for the team they've gotten some timely hits (How's that for an understatement?!  LOL) in the playoffs so Drew's slump wasn't a factor.  But he still played solid "D" and was instrumental in the wins.  It's just that what he accomplished didn't show up in the box score.

    I'm not entirely sold on the fact that this trade helped the team this year (other than Iggy's gaffes).  IMO this team would be where they are if Peavy were still in Chicago and Iggy were on the bench in Boston as a UIF.  But that's neither here nor there.  In order to make a case for that I'd have to bash Peavy and that's not my style.  BUT..  what's done is done and the Sox ARE where they are.  That's the most important thing.

    As for the future, that's something that may always be debated and never settled unless Iggy washes out at SS and/or Bogarts washes out for the Sox - and I don't see either of those things happening. WIthout those things happening there are going to be too many variables to make a solid decision as to the benefit if the trade. 

    There's been some talk here about Middy complaining about a lack of playing time.  I haven't heard that, but if it's true he needs to grow up a bit.  All I've heard about is that everyone does what's best for the team and having Bogarts at 3B was most definitely best for the team.

    If you want to talk about someone who may have a right to gripe - but hasn't - talk about Daniel Nava for a minute.  The guy hit ~.300 for the season and can't get a sniff of PS play now because of "team chemistry".  I don't question the decision to play Gomes, mostly because the team is winning, but it's got to be a bitter pill for Nava and he's NOT complaining. 

    While I DO feel badly for Scherzer and Verlander, whose BP and manager let them down, if it had to be them or us I'm glad they're the ones who took it on the chin. Another one I could feel badly for is Tori Hunter, who's never had a chance to play in the WS even after a very good career.  However, it's hard for me to feel sorry for Hunter because he had a choice between Detroit and Boston and chose Detroit because the felt the Tigers had a better shot at the WS.  How's that working for you now?? 

    Enough of my late ravings.  The World Series starts on Wednesday.  GO SOX! 

     
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