Two Holes in our Line-Up

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Two Holes in our Line-Up

    SS:
    The sox have not had a real SS since Nomar left in '03. We came close with Cabrera but Theo thought Edgar would be the answer...we know how that turned. AlexG had the glove but not the bat until he left for greener pastures.
    Now we have Scutaro, another pretend SS. He is servicable but simply average defensively with little range, same for Lowrie, much too big and cumbersome for the position. Cal Ripken he is not.
    Now, some of you want to go outside the organization and sign a guy like Reyes.
    My fear is that we end up with another Renteria.
    We have a proven defensive wizard name Jose Iglesias. Sure, he is light-hitting, but so was Pedrioa in the beginning. If it were my decision, I'd begin 2012 with Iggy as our starting shortstop. The only way he is going to learn to hit big-league pitching is to play everyday. Even he f he doesn't hit well the first year, the runs saved on defense would make up for the offensive shortfall.
    I would pick up Scutaro's option for utility and trade Lowrie, he needs a chance to be an everyday player somewhere else.

    C:
    This is a sore subject for me because letting Vmart go was the biggest mistake the RS could have made going into 2011. Many believe he was a liability behind the plate but after seeing Salty fumble his way through the year, Victor handles the position with much more precision, and his offense makes up for any perceived liability.
    Since all that is moot, there is Jason. Harness, Moonie and others pine for the day when V-tek was in his prime, and I think their reason for discounting Vmart was because he replaced Tek, their hero. It was much the same as I felt about Beltre replacing Lowell. Tek did ok in his limited playing time but we all know he cannot play at 40 like he did at 32. I think a 40 y/o I-rod is a better option.
    Salty is not a good or even a fair catcher. He is clumsy with little or no agility.
    He can hit for power, but strikes out far too often. His CWPs and PBs are unacceptable. Why Theo saw something in him that Texas or Atlanta did not remains a mystery to me.
    I would roll the dice again and start Lavarnway behind the plate in 2012, trading away Salty and keeping Tek as a back-up or signing another Veteran, perhaps the older Molina or I-rod.
    Another option is a younger Yadier Molina. He is 29 and a FA in 2012. Bringing Shoppach back to Boston may be another option.
    Either way the "C" postion needs adressing.

    My two cents for two holes.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    In Response to Two Holes in our Line-Up:
    SS: The sox have not had a real SS since Nomar left in '03. We came close with Cabrera but Theo thought Edgar would be the answer...we know how that turned. AlexG had the glove but not the bat until he left for greener pastures. Now we have Scutaro, another pretend SS. He is servicable but simply average defensively with little range, same for Lowrie, much too big and cumbersome for the position. Cal Ripken he is not. Now, some of you want to go outside the organization and sign a guy like Reyes. My fear is that we end up with another Renteria. We have a proven defensive wizard name Jose Iglesias. Sure, he is light-hitting, but so was Pedrioa in the beginning. If it were my decision, I'd begin 2012 with Iggy as our starting shortstop. The only way he is going to learn to hit big-league pitching is to play everyday. Even he f he doesn't hit well the first year, the runs saved on defense would make up for the offensive shortfall. I would pick up Scutaro's option for utility and trade Lowrie, he needs a chance to be an everyday player somewhere else. C: This is a sore subject for me because letting Vmart go was the biggest mistake the RS could have made going into 2011. Many believe he was a liability behind the plate but after seeing Salty fumble his way through the year, Victor handles the position with much more precision, and his offense makes up for any perceived liability. Since all that is moot, there is Jason. Harness, Moonie and others pine for the day when V-tek was in his prime, and I think their reason for discounting Vmart was because he replaced Tek, their hero. It was much the same as I felt about Beltre replacing Lowell. Tek did ok in his limited playing time but we all know he cannot play at 40 like he did at 32. I think a 40 y/o I-rod is a better option. Salty is not a good or even a fair catcher. He is clumsy with little or no agility. He can hit for power, but strikes out far too often. His CWPs and PBs are unacceptable. Why Theo saw something in him that Texas or Atlanta did not remains a mystery to me. I would roll the dice again and start Lavarnway behind the plate in 2012, trading away Salty and keeping Tek as a back-up or signing another Veteran, perhaps the older Molina or I-rod. Another option is a younger Yadier Molina. He is 29 and a FA in 2012. Bringing Shoppach back to Boston may be another option. Either way the "C" postion needs adressing. My two cents for two holes.
    Posted by Alibiike


    SS,RF, C, SP and the pen?  We have at least five holes but I give Scuter credit for a nice year.


    Reyes, Cuddyer, Wright, Y. Molina, Marcum, Heath Bell and others FA's could be availble with creative moves on the part of Theo.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    Salty threw out 1/3 of runners this year. That is a real fresh change of pace the Sox needed.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    No, Lowrie is not serviceable.  He has no range, has no quickness, and is clumsy.  TV doesn't do him justice - he is not a SS.

    Scut is OK.  Batted .299.  He's fine.  As a team, the Sox tied for 3rd highest fielding percentage.  Imagine how they would have ranked with a legit RF.

    As far as catching, goes, there are 6 decent catchers in the AL, and then a sharp drop off occurs.

    The line up was fine.  They led the league in runs scored.  They need to focus on pitching.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    Eh.  Given the serious need for pitching, it is hard to go there with you on these two positions.  Scutaro is not great, but not bad either.  Maybe Inglesias gets his swing together anyway sometime next summer.  In any case, Reyes money (disaster waiting to happen) or Rollins money (yeaaaah right) should be spent on pitching.  Period ... and as for C, whats wrong with Salty?  He develped into a perfectly acceptable offensive option:  still needs to cut down on the strike outs, but I think that is the natural next step in his evolution, given the confidence he gained this season.  defensively, he also grew leaps and bounds during the year, and, after starting out as a joke at best, ended up at about league average for throwing out runners and was a decent backstop, even handled Wake ok.  And, Alibi, I love me some Vic Martinez too.  Wish we retained his services.  But it would have been a real clusterf*&k, as he would have had to platoon DH and catcher.  And what would we do next year?  We would still need another catcher for him to split time with.  Salty is no Carlton Fisk, but he is certainly a better option than sending out the Molina Signal.  No reason to think he won't be better next year.  this year, he obviously worked his way out of bustville and that work will make him even better next year.  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    In Response to Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up:
    Eh.  Given the serious need for pitching, it is hard to go there with you on these two positions.  Scutaro is not great, but not bad either.  Maybe Inglesias gets his swing together anyway sometime next summer.  In any case, Reyes money (disaster waiting to happen) or Rollins money (yeaaaah right) should be spent on pitching.  Period ... and as for C, whats wrong with Salty?  He develped into a perfectly acceptable offensive option:  still needs to cut down on the strike outs, but I think that is the natural next step in his evolution, given the confidence he gained this season.  defensively, he also grew leaps and bounds during the year, and, after starting out as a joke at best, ended up at about league average for throwing out runners and was a decent backstop, even handled Wake ok.  And, Alibi, I love me some Vic Martinez too.  Wish we retained his services.  But it would have been a real clusterf*&k, as he would have had to platoon DH and catcher.  And what would we do next year?  We would still need another catcher for him to split time with.  Salty is no Carlton Fisk, but he is certainly a better option than sending out the Molina Signal.  No reason to think he won't be better next year.  this year, he obviously worked his way out of bustville and that work will make him even better next year.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    I suppose I should have clearer. I assumed everyone would understand by line-up, i meant position players since pitchers aren't in the line-up.
    Sure, the pitching needs addressing, but really only the BP in my estimation. We We have the talent in the rotation, they just didn't get it done in September, and I put much blame on coaching, although I think there is more to it than we know. I think this organization has some serious internal issues.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3992292. Show user_3992292's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    SS is hard to find in nowadays!!  Yankees were fortunate to have Jeter, but if you look all other teams other than the Yankees and maybe the Phillies, name one SS tend to stay with the team for more than 5 to 10 years??  Not too many!!!  Keep Scutaro and try to use Ilegesis to back him up like Lowrie did for the team in last two years.  Trade Lowrie.  He is too injure proned player to keep!!!

    Heck no away V-Mart would be a good defensive catcher.  If he is, then why the world Detroit isnt using him as a catcher.  That is why I said it to myself, I wish Boston sign V-Mart as a DH, and get rid of Papi!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    VMart didn't spend much of time behind the plate this season.  He's not a catcher any more... I guess Theo chose Papi over VMart last winter..
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    In Response to Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up:
    In Response to Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up : I suppose I should have clearer. I assumed everyone would understand by line-up, i meant position players since pitchers aren't in the line-up. Sure, the pitching needs addressing, but really only the BP in my estimation. We We have the talent in the rotation, they just didn't get it done in September, and I put much blame on coaching, although I think there is more to it than we know. I think this organization has some serious internal issues.
    Posted by Alibiike


    I know what you meant by line-up.  I just don't think there is much to do about the SS or C position without tying up money that would be better spent on pitching (and DH, and keeping something in the till for the future) or some fantasy-land all-star-at-every-position notion like Jimmy Rollins.  I don't think either of our guys are studs, but they are serviceable.  I think you made up your mind about Salty and can't see him now for what he is.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    The Sox could have had JJ Hardy twice, and never bothered. Do you think his 30 homers and good glove would look good in Fenway?
    As far as two holes, I see three.
    The RF production was the worst in MLB in 2011. Reddick died after the break. Drew retired but never told anyone. Who knows what shape Kalish will be post op?
    They need three holes in the lineup filled.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    In Response to Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up:
    SS is hard to find in nowadays!!  Yankees were fortunate to have Jeter, but if you look all other teams other than the Yankees and maybe the Phillies, name one SS tend to stay with the team for more than 5 to 10 years??  Not too many!!!  Keep Scutaro and try to use Ilegesis to back him up like Lowrie did for the team in last two years.  Trade Lowrie.  He is too injure proned player to keep!!! Heck no away V-Mart would be a good defensive catcher.  If he is, then why the world Detroit isnt using him as a catcher.  That is why I said it to myself, I wish Boston sign V-Mart as a DH, and get rid of Papi!!
    Posted by 4079efa6860279c229d23166fa17dfda


    Because Aviles is the younger option. Look, any team that has a cathcer in his 20's will start behind the plate over one their 30's.
    Maybe I'm old school but there just doesn't seem to be much emphaisis place on offense for catcher anymore.
    In the time Vmart was here he was much better at blocking the plate and handling pitchers than Salty was. Salty may have had a better CS, but much of that depends on pitchers holding runners. The RS still had the most bases swiped against them of anyone in the league, and Salty led all catchers in PBs and I believe CWPs.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from cpjohn1. Show cpjohn1's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    In Response to Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up:
    VMart didn't spend much of time behind the plate this season.  He's not a catcher any more... I guess Theo chose Papi over VMart last winter..
    Posted by seannybboi


    Because he didn't spend much time behind the plate for Chicago, does that mean he wouldn't spend that much time behind the plate for the Sox?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    We need a SP to replace Dice, pushing Lackey to 5th and Wake/aceves 6th.  We need at least 1 additional BP arm, 2 if we let Paps go( which I suggest).

    Beyond that, We need RF followed by 3B(let papi go and move youk to DH) and then SS.(keep scutaro until iglesis is ready). 

    I think I set my sights on Wilson, and Cudyer, along with BP help...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    Please discount any PB/CWP on Salty that happened with Wake pitching. Then make a comparision to other catchers.

    Pedroia was never a light hitting player. He has always been a 300 ave guy except for April his first year in MLB.

    Vmart there was no way to keep him if you want Agon.
    If you keep Vmart and get Agon Ortiz is gone.

    Same way with Beltre. If Beltre stayed there is no Agon as Youk would play first .
    Unless you trade Youk and still get Agon.
    Or you let Ortiz go and make the Beltre/Agon/Your work 3rd/1st/DH

    Make Inglesias the SS
    Move CC to RF take advantage of the larger RF.

    Trade Youk right now if he does not wish to DH
    Let Ortiz go.

    Star a bit of a youth movement bringing up some rookies.
    Lavarnaway, Inglesias, Bowden, Tarzawa, Chih-Hsien Chiang, Will Middlebrooks
    Stephen Fife, Felix Doubront, Tommy Hottovy

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    In Response to Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up:
    Please discount any PB/CWP on Salty that happened with Wake pitching. Then make a comparision to other catchers. Pedroia was never a light hitting player. He has always been a 300 ave guy except for April his first year in MLB. Vmart there was no way to keep him if you want Agon. If you keep Vmart and get Agon Ortiz is gone. Same way with Beltre. If Beltre stayed there is no Agon as Youk would play first . Unless you trade Youk and still get Agon. Or you let Ortiz go and make the Beltre/Agon/Your work 3rd/1st/DH Make Inglesias the SS Move CC to RF take advantage of the larger RF. Trade Youk right now if he does not wish to DH Let Ortiz go. Star a bit of a youth movement bringing up some rookies. Lavarnaway, Inglesias, Bowden, Tarzawa, Chih-Hsien Chiang , Will Middlebrooks Stephen Fife , Felix Doubront , Tommy Hottovy
    Posted by JimfromFlorida
    One question about the 2012 line-up. Are you prepared to finish 4th in the AL East in 2012 and just how does that affect paying all the big contracts you left on the payroll during this youth movement?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxFan2OO4. Show RedSoxFan2OO4's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    In Response to Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up:
    In Response to Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up : Because Aviles is the younger option. Look, any team that has a cathcer in his 20's will start behind the plate over one their 30's. Maybe I'm old school but there just doesn't seem to be much emphaisis place on offense for catcher anymore. In the time Vmart was here he was much better at blocking the plate and handling pitchers than Salty was. Salty may have had a better CS, but much of that depends on pitchers holding runners. The RS still had the most bases swiped against them of anyone in the league, and Salty led all catchers in PBs and I believe CWPs.
    Posted by Alibiike


    Younger options are the dumbest thing I ever heard, you're not trying to win 5 years from now you're trying to win next year. I get what you're saying but you can't have young players at every position.

    Give Scutaro credit, he played great this year and terrific down the stretch, not to mention he's clutch and kills the Yankees. There is no reason to let a .235 AAA hitter start in the Majors. He needs to be back another year. He is a proven player.

    Also catching Wakefield every 5th day doesn't help your pass ball ratio.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Two Holes in our Line-Up

    In Response to Two Holes in our Line-Up:
    SS: The sox have not had a real SS since Nomar left in '03. We came close with Cabrera but Theo thought Edgar would be the answer...we know how that turned. AlexG had the glove but not the bat until he left for greener pastures. Now we have Scutaro, another pretend SS. He is servicable but simply average defensively with little range, same for Lowrie, much too big and cumbersome for the position. Cal Ripken he is not. Now, some of you want to go outside the organization and sign a guy like Reyes. My fear is that we end up with another Renteria. We have a proven defensive wizard name Jose Iglesias. Sure, he is light-hitting, but so was Pedrioa in the beginning. If it were my decision, I'd begin 2012 with Iggy as our starting shortstop. The only way he is going to learn to hit big-league pitching is to play everyday. Even he f he doesn't hit well the first year, the runs saved on defense would make up for the offensive shortfall. I would pick up Scutaro's option for utility and trade Lowrie, he needs a chance to be an everyday player somewhere else. C: This is a sore subject for me because letting Vmartgo was the biggest mistake the RS could have made going into 2011. Many believe he was a liability behind the plate but after seeing Salty fumble his way through the year, Victor handles the position with much more precision, and his offense makes up for any perceived liability. Since all that is moot, there is Jason. Harness, Moonie and others pine for the day when V-tek was in his prime, and I think their reason for discounting Vmart was because he replaced Tek, their hero. It was much the same as I felt about Beltre replacing Lowell. Tek did ok in his limited playing time but we all know he cannot play at 40 like he did at 32. I think a 40 y/o I-rod is a better option. Salty is not a good or even a fair catcher. He is clumsy with little or no agility. He can hit for power, but strikes out far too often. His CWPs and PBs are unacceptable. Why Theo saw something in him that Texas or Atlanta did not remains a mystery to me. I would roll the dice again and start Lavarnway behind the plate in 2012, trading away Salty and keeping Tek as a back-up or signing another Veteran, perhaps the older Molina or I-rod. Another option is a younger Yadier Molina. He is 29 and a FA in 2012. Bringing Shoppach back to Boston may be another option. Either way the "C" postion needs adressing. My two cents for two holes.
    Posted by Alibiike


    This is where UR wrong, Ike. Nothing VMART can realistically hit as catcher can compensate for what he costs a pitching staff.
    The data is factual and revealed over 10 years.
    That's why he wasn't retained.
    That's why he's now a DH.

    As for Tek, it has bothering to do with 'hero' status. Nothing at all.
    Perception isn't always reality.
    Tek gets much more out of his pitchers. That's why the team played .667 ball this year with him catching.
    Again, the trend (.600 ball w/Tek as opposed to .500 w/o Tek) has been going on for over a decade.

    The RedSox catchers in 2011 hit 29 homers and 96 rbi's.
    Papi did the same as a DH.
    Salty should only improve over time. That's the hope, anyway.
    Why watch him do it for another team?
     
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