Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    kimsaythis commented on another thread--beware the "new" Rays pickoff play.

    Monday night against the Rangers, who had a runner on first, Price picked him off.  The replay showed quite clearly that Loney in fact physically blocked, with his lower body, primarily feet, the runner from being able to get his hand on first base.  If this is legal, why wouldn't all first basemen position themselves to physically block the guy on first when he tries to get back?  Napoli could be especially good at this. 

    But is it legal?  And, if it is, does the baserunner have the right to go thru him to the bag?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from scottwad. Show scottwad's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    Let Loney block. Go in hard and remove his ankle. Along with their highest batting average. Metal cleats please!!
    scottwad24

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

     

    "OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.

    If a fielder is about to receive a thrown ball and if the ball is in flight directly toward and near enough to the fielder so he must occupy his position to receive the ball he may be considered "in the act of fielding a ball." It is entirely up to the judgment of the umpire as to whether a fielder is in the act of fielding a ball. After a fielder has made an attempt to field a ball and missed, he can no longer be in the "act of fielding" the ball. For example: an infielder dives at a ground ball and the ball passes him and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner, he very likely has obstructed the runner."

    The fielder may stand in the base path without the ball, IF, the throw is almost to him and he needs to be there to catch the ball. However, he may not actually block the base until he has possession of the ball. Until he has possession of the ball he must give the runner some way to get to the base.

    As with interference, obstruction is also a tough judgment call. Contact between the runner and fielder is not necessary to meet the definition. If a runner must slow down or alter his path to avoid a fielder who is not in possession of the ball or in the act of fielding, he has been obstructed.

     

     

     "Another day closer to the parade"

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

     

    good question max

    mr mojo confirms what I was thinking /guessing

    similar to the catcher at home the ball has to be on the way

    user_4151996  has the solution

    go in spikes 1st

    here's the vid for those who didn't see it

     

    http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=31063881&c_id=mlb

     

     

    nice job by loney

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    agree with user and zac.  the very first sox baserunner on 1b needs to go in cleats first back to the bag to send a warning to looney that blocking the base with his leg wont fly in this round......

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    agree with user and zac.  the very first sox baserunner on 1b needs to go in cleats first back to the bag to send a warning to looney that blocking the base with his leg wont fly in this round......



         Getting back to first base feet first is slower than diving back. When have you ever seen a runner get back that way? It's either hand first or standing. If a runner went back cleat first it's easy for a first baseman to see out of the corner of his eyes and adjust his position.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    agree with user and zac.  the very first sox baserunner on 1b needs to go in cleats first back to the bag to send a warning to looney that blocking the base with his leg wont fly in this round......

     



         Getting back to first base feet first is slower than diving back. When have you ever seen a runner get back that way? It's either hand first or standing. If a runner went back cleat first it's easy for a first baseman to see out of the corner of his eyes and adjust his position.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    GM HH

    good point

    I knew once 'no cred' agreed with me

    I was in trouble ;-)

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from scottwad. Show scottwad's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:

    Agreed, just need to send message.

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    agree with user and zac.  the very first sox baserunner on 1b needs to go in cleats first back to the bag to send a warning to looney that blocking the base with his leg wont fly in this round......

     



         Getting back to first base feet first is slower than diving back. When have you ever seen a runner get back that way? It's either hand first or standing. If a runner went back cleat first it's easy for a first baseman to see out of the corner of his eyes and adjust his position.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:


         Getting back to first base feet first is slower than diving back. When have you ever seen a runner get back that way? It's either hand first or standing. If a runner went back cleat first it's easy for a first baseman to see out of the corner of his eyes and adjust his position.

     



    of course it is.  and it never happens.  thats sort of the point.  obviously the runner cannot do it if he has a huge lead and it is the pitchers "A" pickoff move.  but how many times does a pitcher throw over when the runner barely has a lead?  and the other point isnt to actually rip loney's shins up...its to simply send a message.

    @ zac....sending you a waaaaaambulance.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    Tex did it against us while with the Rangers...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    And Hrbeck did it to Ronnie Gant and it cost the Braves the World Series.

    Do to Looney what Gary Mugsy Allenson did to Hrbeck back in the day and beat the hell out of him!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    The best way to get Looney not to block the bag is actually to run into him causing him to obstruct  and possibly missed the ball. which if you watched the game in Texas, that precisely what the rangers did later in the game. The base runner instead of diving back, stays upright takes an inside route back instead of the traditional outside. Which will change where the first baseman sets up...

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    As long as the first baseman is not holding or pushing or leg whipping and is making normal physical movement to catch the ball and move on a path to put his hand or foot on the base or his hand to tag the runner, you bet it's legal. 

    Ellsbury better know that the 1st baseman can get between him and daylight and block his shortest path to the bag or block his path to the 2nd base side of the bag. 



    Interesting.  Then to carry that one step further, Napoli can drop down onto one knee and completly block the path to the bag as long as he's trying to catch the ball?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    Going back feet first you will be out everytime; there's no momentum to do it.  What needs to happen is to just go back through Loney standing up, ala a linebacker stuffing a hole on the goal line.  Best done with a bigger guy who can generate some momentum(e.g., Gomes or Middlebrooks). 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    isn't this the exact thing that The Rays did to us in 2008 w/ Crisp sliding into 2b?

    when are we going to stop being The Ray's b-tch?  That's what I want to know.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    I believe home plate is the only "bag" you can legally block

    When the fielder is making a play, he has the right of way and the baserunner must yield. But that is only for a batted ball.  On a throw, the baserunner just needs to stay in the base path.

    I say pull a Reggie Jackson (vs the Dodgers) and run right into the pickoff throw!!!!!

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    Interesting.  Then to carry that one step further, Napoli can drop down onto one knee and completly block the path to the bag as long as he's trying to catch the ball?


    Dropping down the knee to catch the ball or make the tag is and must be legal. 



    Are you by any chance umpiring first base on Friday aftenoon? Because I'd like to know how that's going to be called before I tried it.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    I believe home plate is the only "bag" you can legally block

    When the fielder is making a play, he has the right of way and the baserunner must yield. But that is only for a batted ball.  On a throw, the baserunner just needs to stay in the base path.

    I say pull a Reggie Jackson (vs the Dodgers) and run right into the pickoff throw!!!!!



    If this is true - and I always assumed it is - there was a misapplication of the rules on the pickoff play when Loney blocked the bag with his foot.  The runner should have been awarded a safe call at 1st base because of the obstruction of the baseline.

    Were I John Farrell I'd discuss this with the umpires before the game so the umpires would know that this may happen again, and so both teams are aware  of the how the obstruction rule is going to be interpreted.  Then they should govern themselves accordingly.

    (Myself, I'd like to see our resident thug, Gomes Smile, barrel into Loney and push him into the cheap seats, but I'd also like to know how it's going to be called before Gomes does it.)

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I believe home plate is the only "bag" you can legally block

    When the fielder is making a play, he has the right of way and the baserunner must yield. But that is only for a batted ball.  On a throw, the baserunner just needs to stay in the base path.

    I say pull a Reggie Jackson (vs the Dodgers) and run right into the pickoff throw!!!!!

     



    If this is true - and I always assumed it is - there was a misapplication of the rules on the pickoff play when Loney blocked the bag with his foot.  The runner should have been awarded a safe call at 1st base because of the obstruction of the baseline.

     

    Were I John Farrell I'd discuss this with the umpires before the game so the umpires would know that this may happen again, and so both teams are aware  of the how the obstruction rule is going to be interpreted.  Then they should govern themselves accordingly.

    (Myself, I'd like to see our resident thug, Gomes Smile, barrel into Loney and push him into the cheap seats, but I'd also like to know how it's going to be called before Gomes does it.)

     

    [/QUOTE]


    That's how I always played it.  Not sure if it is 100% accurate and if there are other clauses to it but that was my simple interpretation of playing but it was only in ameteur leagues of course.

    I hope Farrell and Ben are taking this very seriously.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    Interesting discussion.  Left out is that Loney always has the option of not blocking and simply tagging, which could make Gomes or whoever look silly as well as out.  The best way to get back is diving, which is the easiest to block legally.  When the runner stays vertical, as Ellsbury usually does, he has to be quick and anticipatory against a pitcher with a good pickoff move, especially if the runner plans to steal and needs a lead. 

     

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:

     

    In response to slasher9's comment:

     

     

    agree with user and zac.  the very first sox baserunner on 1b needs to go in cleats first back to the bag to send a warning to looney that blocking the base with his leg wont fly in this round......

     

     



         Getting back to first base feet first is slower than diving back. When have you ever seen a runner get back that way? It's either hand first or standing. If a runner went back cleat first it's easy for a first baseman to see out of the corner of his eyes and adjust his position.

     

     



    GM HH

     

    good point

    I knew once 'no cred' agreed with me

    I was in trouble ;-)



       Hi Zac,

         " 'no cred' agreed with me I was in Trouble"

                  That's a given my friend.

                  BTW I asked awhile back about TWM and if you responded I'am sorry to say I missed it.

                 Where has he been?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Umpire/rules question: blocking the runner at 1B

    lol @ trolling me.

    BTW - babe dont show up unless the yanks are above the sox in the standings.  go figure.

    hopefully we wont see him again in.....forever.

     
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