Umps

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Umps

    Seems like every night and in multiple games the Umps screw up. From missed strikes, foul balls that are not foul etc... The strike zone seems to be very fluid with many of these Umps. Is the issue too many Umps there are over 100 listed. Hit hey only need 60 on  a night with all teams playing.

    or is it just more coverage we see?

    something just seems wrong.......

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Umps

    I don't think the balls and strikes calls are any worse than they've ever been.  And different umps have always had different strike zones.  It's the technology - the strike zone graphs we can all see - that are making them look bad.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Umps

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't think the balls and strikes calls are any worse than they've ever been.  And different umps have always had different strike zones.

    agreed

     

     

      It's the technology - the strike zone graphs we can all see - that are making them look bad.



    it's a double whammy

    the umps look bad when they blow the call

    and they look bad when the technology blows the call

    and that does happen

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Umps

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    I don't think the balls and strikes calls are any worse than they've ever been.  And different umps have always had different strike zones.  It's the technology - the strike zone graphs we can all see - that are making them look bad.




    True.

    Personally, I tend to dismiss balls shown close the "K zone" outline.

    Those can go either way.

    It's the balls that are obviously in or out of the zone and are missed,  that catch my eye.

    Make me wonder what the umps are looking at, when they call them.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Umps

    Most umps are better at calling inside pitches correctly than outside pitches because they position themselves over the inside corner.  They have a tough time being sure about high and low pitches because the catcher blocks their view, but generally they call high pitches better than low pitches. 
    To be honest, I prefer umps with liberal strike zones because it keeps the game moving along.  But umpires get a ton more griping from hitters than they do from catchers and pitchers, so that keeps the strike zone fairly small. 

    Boston hitters are as bad as any other teams' players at griping about calls.  Carp last night is only the most recent and obvious example. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from chetgnat. Show chetgnat's posts

    Re: Umps

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    Most umps are better at calling inside pitches correctly than outside pitches because they position themselves over the inside corner.  They have a tough time being sure about high and low pitches because the catcher blocks their view, but generally they call high pitches better than low pitches. 
    To be honest, I prefer umps with liberal strike zones because it keeps the game moving along.  But umpires get a ton more griping from hitters than they do from catchers and pitchers, so that keeps the strike zone fairly small. 

    Boston hitters are as bad as any other teams' players at griping about calls.  Carp last night is only the most recent and obvious example. 



    Just as often they get confused if a ball is not where the pitcher intended to throw it but still a strike. So if the catcher sets up on the outside corner and the ball ends up on the inside corner, but is still a strike, the ump will often call it a ball just because of the expectation and different perspective. Gabe Kapler was right. Time to let go of the past and embrace the technology. The first step is replays, fairly liberal use of them, via a challenge system. Clearly this should be the case with plays at bases, catches, etc., but I wouldn't mind allowing a player to challenge a ball/strike call, if only to shut them up when they are whining about a third strike called that was, in fact, a strike (or vice versa for a pitcher). It's like fouls in basketball. I would love to allow the player the opportunity to put his credibility on the line by challenging on the spot, rather than just whining like a baby with nothing to lose. I'd also like to provide some sort of incentive for the umpires to get the calls right the first time. Perhaps a pot of money that gets chipped away at every time a call is challenged and overturned. The age of a baseball manager getting thrown out of a game for arguing a blown call at a base should be over. Challenge, and then one side or the other kindly s's t f u.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Umps

    I think the umps are better at calling the high strike than they were 10 years ago -- although they're still not perfect, but they need to be a bit more consistent on the corners. Too often they seem to be squeezing pitchers, however, I don't want them to give pitchers the Greg Maddux strike zone where it can be six inches off the plate and he still gets the call.

    In regard to the OP, I think the big think like others have mentioned is the technology and all the games that are on TV and all the highlights that are available. I grew up in the 1970s in the pre-ESPN days and all the Red Sox games weren't on TV and the only highlights you saw were on the five-minute local TV news -- for the most part.

    So now, were inundated with highlights and games and it's easy to pick apart. I think umpires are very good on safe/out calls on the bases and fair-foul calls -- not perfect -- but really, nothing to complain about. Balls and strikes need to be better, but even then, I don't feel it's quite as bad as we think. I think some fans expect perfection, and it's impossible.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Umps

    Tennis ???

    i watched some of the French open and saw no electronic reviews on suspect calls?

    i agree replay must be come more prevalent On many types of calls.

    An electronic strike zone might be an issue. I'm not sure how it works with adusting for batters heights? Are they preprogrammed Knees to letters?

    it would be different for every player even of the same height.

    Love the Red Sox and enjoy the ride every year.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Umps

    I'm not one who usually moan and grown about officiating. It makes me sick when fans whine about bad calls, especially when a lot of times, the officials were right.

    BUT ...

    Sox are getting s crewed tonight. First Lackey was squeezed and now the call on Drew.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Umps

    Technology has changed the game. Unfortunately for umpires the instant replay will show how close a play was. Tonight at 2nd base the guy was wrong because the Ranger player sold the tag that didn't happen. Drew was right he wasn't out. The umpiring behind the plate is terrible. Forget the Amica K-zone the pitches they call strikes and balls , just use your own eye and then compare it to Amica and you can see just how bad these guys really are. I've counted 5 losses this year that the Sox have taken because the umpires got one thing or another wrong and wouldn't admit their error. Such is life I guess.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: Umps

    The biggest problem I see is the umpire's attitudes. they are thin-skinned and too quick with the heave-ho. Understandbly their livlihood is being threatened, electronic calls will remove at least one ump from every crew. Every industry has been challenged by technology, it's time for baseball to catch up, get the calls as right as possible and PLAY BALL.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Umps

    In response to royf19's comment:

    I'm not one who usually moan and grown about officiating. It makes me sick when fans whine about bad calls, especially when a lot of times, the officials were right.

    BUT ...

    Sox are getting s crewed tonight. First Lackey was squeezed and now the call on Drew.

     




    Just to keep this descussion in perspective...

    I also remember that Pedey got an "extra" pitch after an obvious ball four was called a strike and Pedey hit that extra pitch for a HR. 


    We tend to remember the ones that __________ us and not the ones that helped us.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Umps

    In response to royf19's comment:

    I think the umps are better at calling the high strike than they were 10 years ago -- although they're still not perfect, but they need to be a bit more consistent on the corners. Too often they seem to be squeezing pitchers, however, I don't want them to give pitchers the Greg Maddux strike zone where it can be six inches off the plate and he still gets the call.

    In regard to the OP, I think the big think like others have mentioned is the technology and all the games that are on TV and all the highlights that are available. I grew up in the 1970s in the pre-ESPN days and all the Red Sox games weren't on TV and the only highlights you saw were on the five-minute local TV news -- for the most part.

    So now, were inundated with highlights and games and it's easy to pick apart. I think umpires are very good on safe/out calls on the bases and fair-foul calls -- not perfect -- but really, nothing to complain about. Balls and strikes need to be better, but even then, I don't feel it's quite as bad as we think. I think some fans expect perfection, and it's impossible.



    I don't think things are any worse this year than in past years.  It's just that IIRC this is the first year that NESN has had the strike zone in the lower right corner of the TV screen on every pitch.  That lets us compare every pitch with the ump's call.  I don't think the umps are any more right or wrong than in the past

    As to the safe/out calls on bases however, I don't see much there for the umpires to brag about.  It's apparent that until the ball gets to the base the benefit of doubt goes to the runner, but if the ball gets there first the benefit of doubt goes to the defensive player. i.e. if the ball gets there first the runner has to be very clearly safe in order to be called safe. If the ball gets there first the "automatic call" is out.

    Anytime I see something different from that I'm pleasantly surprised.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Umps

    .

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Umps

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    The biggest problem I see is the umpire's attitudes. they are thin-skinned and too quick with the heave-ho. Understandbly their livlihood is being threatened, electronic calls will remove at least one ump from every crew. Every industry has been challenged by technology, it's time for baseball to catch up, get the calls as right as possible and PLAY BALL.



    I don't C that

    in fact most conversations add an umpire just to watch the replays

    they will not be removing the HP umpire anytime soon

     

     

     

     

     

    Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing.
    - Warren Spahn

    It’s not how hard you practice when somebody is watching, it’s how hard you practice when nobody is watching.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Umps

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I'm not one who usually moan and grown about officiating. It makes me sick when fans whine about bad calls, especially when a lot of times, the officials were right.

    BUT ...

    Sox are getting s crewed tonight. First Lackey was squeezed and now the call on Drew.

     

     




    Just to keep this descussion in perspective...

     

    I also remember that Pedey got an "extra" pitch after an obvious ball four was called a strike and Pedey hit that extra pitch for a HR. 


    We tend to remember the ones that __________ us and not the ones that helped us.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree 100 percent.

    Was watching the game intermittently and the Lackey missed call and Drew missed call were close together. (Was watching Bruins by the time Pedey homered -- switching back and forth).

    But you're right. Fans don't remember the ones that help their team. That's why I have low tolerance when fans complain about officiating in any sport. I hate that sort of whining.

    I don't like when umps call a strike that's blatantly a ball, but I do want them to not squeeze pitchers on both sides. My biggest complaint are the umpires/officials who have thin skin and rabbit ears. They need to be the ones who difuse heated situations and too often they're the ones who throw gasoline on the situation. (Although it's not quite as bad as it was a few years ago).

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Umps

    Of the three major American sports--football, baseball, and basketball--the latter, basketball, is the most chaotic and hardest to call.  Football has plenty of chaos, but lots of refs and is usually well called.  Baseball has very little chaos and should be easy to call except for balls and strikes.

    I tend toward the traditional view of letting the umps call the game for better or for worse because I think perfection in almost anything should not even be attempted--zero defects to me makes no sense.  This means hitters and pitchers have to adjust to the home plate umpire for that game.  This is no different from the adjustments pitchers have to make for different hitters and different lineups--ditto that hitters have to make for different pitchers.  And don't forget managers also adjust lineups, bullpens, etc. 

    I also think the hitters get away with murder with their endless complaints, and the Sox hitters are no exception.  Sometimes the hitters are right, but just as often they are griping about a strike that really was a strike.  My preference is for umpires who call lots of strikes because it keeps the game moving along. 

     

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