Untouchable RS players

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Untouchable RS players

    Aceves, Papelbon, Bard, Pedroia, Elsbury and Adrian the rest are all ducks on the pond.
    I want Aceves, Paps and Bard as the mainstays in the BP.
    Pedroia, Elsbury and Agon are what they are very good, despite Agon's comments. BTW I have no issue with Agon's God's plan statement. If that is what he believes so be it.
    I'd also have no issue giving SS to Inglesias.
    I have no issue keeping CC I just think the past years was a fluke. I'd also put him in RF next year.

    The rest are all available.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    In my 51 years following the Boston Red Sox, they have never had such a weak arm in RF as Carl Crawford has. Speed in RF isn't paramount. Dwight Evans was no speed merchant. He was smart, got a great jump on the ball, read the pitchers, and had a cannon arm.
    The only untouchable on this team should be Dustin Pedroia.
    Everyone else should be open to be traded.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    Can Ellsbury be resigned?  If not, package him with Lackey in a trade.

    I think getting rid of Lackey is critical.  getting rid of him may require pairing him with someone like Ells or Pedroia or Bard.  I think Pedroia has to stay.  The Sox need a personality like Pedroia on the team.

    I guess another way to look at it is which really good young player can you part with?  Package him with Lackey.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    The only question I have for those of you who want to trade Ells is this;  Who's playing center field?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    In Response to Re: Untouchable RS players:
    The only question I have for those of you who want to trade Ells is this;  Who's playing center field?
    Posted by S5
    Exactly. Trading Ells is the dumbest idea I've ever heard unless Felix Hernandez is coming to the Sox in the deal.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    I'm not saying they SHOULD trade Ellsbury.  I saying that they might have to trade Ellsbury if they want to get rid of Lackey.

    The best way to get rid of Lackey is to package him with a good, young player.  They have a couple of options - Pedroia, Bard, Ellsbury, maybe someone on the farm.  Ellsbury is most likely going to Free Agency as soon as he can.  Chances are, they won't be able to resign him.  It just makes sense to package him with Lackey.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    For everyone saying that Iglesias should be our MLB starting SS next year please consider:

    .235/.285/.269 in AAA in 2011. That's a .554 OPS.

    He is 21. Give him time to develop.

    DWL, I just don't see how dumping Lackey is so important that the Rs would include core players to get it done.

    The market needs to take a deep breath. If Nathan Horton does not score an overtime goal in Game 7 versus the Habs, the market would have screamed to bust up the team, trade lots of key giys and fire the GM and the coach. Sound familiar?

    It is a thin line in sports and while the RS should not and will not take what happened to them this September lightly, they won't over react and find silver bullet answers IMHO like dumping any one at all costs or bringing up a promising defensive wizard that hasn't figured out how to hit AAA pitching.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    Lackey IMHO is not going anywhere.
    Trading Els is nuts.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    In Response to Untouchable RS players:
    Aceves, Papelbon, Bard, Pedroia, Elsbury and Adrian the rest are all ducks on the pond. I want Aceves, Paps and Bard as the mainstays in the BP. Pedroia, Elsbury and Agon are what they are very good, despite Agon's comments. BTW I have no issue with Agon's God's plan statement. If that is what he believes so be it. I'd also have no issue giving SS to Inglesias. I have no issue keeping CC I just think the past years was a fluke. I'd also put him in RF next year. The rest are all available.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida


    Ellsbury if we can sign him gives us one of the best leadoff/CF's for years.  If we can't sign Ells we would need to get a top starter, Kemp or a Justin type guy in return.  Pedroia, Adrian, Aceves, Lester, Beckett, Crawford, Buchholz and Theo's Yale man Lavarnway I belive are untouchable next season. 

    Anyone including:
    Tek, Scuter, Wake, Miller, Aviles, Youk, Iglesias, Middlebrooks, Renaudo, Weiland, Salty, Pap, Papi, Drew, Albers, Jenks, Lackey, Reddick, Kalish, Bard etc. I believe could be mentioned in, traded or let go.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    They had the best CF/Lead off hitter in 2011 and what'd it get them?  An early tee time, a fired manager, and a GM that will probably be soon gone.

    I just hate Lackey.  I thought this team had a chance to make history.  I like Tito and Theo.  I blame Lackey for this past season.

    And it's more than that.  He was really bad out of the gate.  Much worse than Crawford.  But no one said anything because everyone knew Lackey's wife was sick.  Everyone gave him a pass.  But what does he do - during a road trip at a critical time in the season, Lackey uses the opportunity to file for divorce. 

    At least wait until after the season to take attention away for the pennant race to focus on personal problems.  And when someone from TMZ texts him about it, he makes a big stink about it with reporters than had nothing to do with it. 

    Everyone else is playing hurt, doing what they can to get back into the line up.  Scut and Youk are playing hurt because lowrie is on the DL.  Pedroia is battling an injury.  Ellsbury is playing his heart out.  Redding is playing out of his mind in RF.  AGON was having a monster year until his surgically repaired shoulder starts acting up.  And Pap was having a monster year.

    Everyone is giving 100%.  Except for Lackey who is spending his time drinking beers in the clubhouse and encouraging Lester and beckett to join him.

    Lackey probably cost Ellsbury the MVP.  Cost Tito his job.  Probably cost Theo his job.  And guys like Youk, Pedroia, Agon, Pap a world series ring.  Guys like Ortiz and Tek may never get another chance to sniff a post season.

    This team had the talent to be one of the best teams ever.  Instead, they are seen as one of the all time failures.  And I place 90% of the blame on Lackey.

    I want Lackey off this team in the worst way.  I love the Red Sox, but I can't stand Lackey.

    Unfortunately, sometimes when you cut out a cancer, you got to cut out good bone and msucle as well.  Another reason to hate Lackey - he'll cost the team a good player in order to get rid of him.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    Lackey and Ellsbury to San Francisco for Zito and Bumgarner. The Giants add some much-needed offense, the Red Sox add young cost-controlled elite pitching. Both teams exchange disappointing long-term contracts to pitchers who had past success elsewhere.

    Sign Juan Pierre to a 1 year deal for CF. Bat him or Carl Crawford leadoff.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    In Response to Re: Untouchable RS players:
    In Response to Untouchable RS players : Ellsbury if we can sign him gives us one of the best leadoff/CF's for years.  If we can't sign Ells we would need to get a top starter, Kemp or a Justin type guy in return.  Pedroia, Adrian, Aceves, Lester, Beckett, Crawford, Buchholz and Theo's Yale man Lavarnway I belive are untouchable next season.  Anyone including: Tek, Scuter, Wake, Miller, Aviles, Youk, Iglesias, Middlebrooks, Renaudo, Weiland, Salty, Pap, Papi, Drew, Albers, Jenks, Lackey, Reddick, Kalish, Bard etc. I believe could be mentioned in, traded or let go.
    Posted by craze4sox
    I agree on Ells with the caveat that we are not going to be able to extend him and because of that we aren't getting like value in return in trade because nobody else will be able to extend him either. His agent waits for the open market unless the player has overwhelming reasons to want to extend like Jared Weaver did this year with the LAA. I think the RS just play this dance out with Boras and rue the day they slotted the kind of money Ellsbury could be worth to Crawford,  if he has two more seasons like 2011. That is a big if. Grady Sizemore was all-world just awhile back and the world thought Mauer was a steal for the Twins at $190M. There are worse things than going year to year with players.  

    Trading Middleborooks IMO is ill advised. Less splashy headlines than Lavarnway but a great 3B prospect, top of the food chain in an an industry where young power bats at 3B are not the norm. Bard's another on that is hard to trade. The kid is a horse, with a career WHIP at about 1.000. While we all remember his speed bumps he was outstanding at getting tough outs. He was awesome with inherited runners. He is outstanding and the RS have years of control left. It would be hard to imagine getting an above league average position player or starting pitcher back for an elite bullpen man. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    In Response to Re: Untouchable RS players:
    They had the best CF/Lead off hitter in 2011 and what'd it get them?  An early tee time, a fired manager, and a GM that will probably be soon gone. I just hate Lackey.  I thought this team had a chance to make history.  I like Tito and Theo.  I blame Lackey for this past season. And it's more than that.  He was really bad out of the gate.  Much worse than Crawford.  But no one said anything because everyone knew Lackey's wife was sick.  Everyone gave him a pass.  But what does he do - during a road trip at a critical time in the season, Lackey uses the opportunity to file for divorce.  At least wait until after the season to take attention away for the pennant race to focus on personal problems.  And when someone from TMZ texts him about it, he makes a big stink about it with reporters than had nothing to do with it.  Everyone else is playing hurt, doing what they can to get back into the line up.  Scut and Youk are playing hurt because lowrie is on the DL.  Pedroia is battling an injury.  Ellsbury is playing his heart out.  Redding is playing out of his mind in RF.  AGON was having a monster year until his surgically repaired shoulder starts acting up.  And Pap was having a monster year. Everyone is giving 100%.  Except for Lackey who is spending his time drinking beers in the clubhouse and encouraging Lester and beckett to join him. Lackey probably cost Ellsbury the MVP.  Cost Tito his job.  Probably cost Theo his job.  And guys like Youk, Pedroia, Agon, Pap a world series ring.  Guys like Ortiz and Tek may never get another chance to sniff a post season. This team had the talent to be one of the best teams ever.  Instead, they are seen as one of the all time failures.  And I place 90% of the blame on Lackey. I want Lackey off this team in the worst way.  I love the Red Sox, but I can't stand Lackey. Unfortunately, sometimes when you cut out a cancer, you got to cut out good bone and msucle as well.  Another reason to hate Lackey - he'll cost the team a good player in order to get rid of him.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover


    DirtyWater, if you read some of my threads throughout the year I was all over Lackey being bad for our club.  I think you may be correct, John has an attitude that we can't let filter through this team and I really hope we don't need to lose a good player to dump him. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    In Response to Re: Untouchable RS players:
    I'm not saying they SHOULD trade Ellsbury.  I saying that they might have to trade Ellsbury if they want to get rid of Lackey. The best way to get rid of Lackey is to package him with a good, young player.  They have a couple of options - Pedroia, Bard, Ellsbury, maybe someone on the farm.  Ellsbury is most likely going to Free Agency as soon as he can.  Chances are, they won't be able to resign him.  It just makes sense to package him with Lackey.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover


    Trading Ellsbury to get rid on Lackey is not worth it. Ells is one of the best things on the Sox. It gets tiring watching them send off talent: Beltre and Victor are most recent. Sox could have signed them for peanuts compared to Craw and Agon.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    how about Lackey, Beckett, Youk and Bard for a manager.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    In Response to Re: Untouchable RS players:
    In Response to Re: Untouchable RS players : I agree on Ells with the caveat that we are not going to be able to extend him and because of that we aren't getting like value in return in trade because nobody else will be able to extend him either. His agent waits for the open market unless the player has overwhelming reasons to want to extend like Jared Weaver did this year with the LAA. I think the RS just play this dance out with Boras and rue the day they slotted the kind of money Ellsbury could be worth to Crawford,  if he has two more seasons like 2011. That is a big if. Grady Sizemore was all-world just awhile back and the world thought Mauer was a steal for the Twins at $190M. There are worse things than going year to year with players.   Trading Middleborooks IMO is ill advised. Less splashy headlines than Lavarnway but a great 3B prospect, top of the food chain in an an industry where young power bats at 3B are not the norm. Bard's another on that is hard to trade. The kid is a horse, with a career WHIP at about 1.000. While we all remember his speed bumps he was outstanding at getting tough outs. He was awesome with inherited runners. He is outstanding and the RS have years of control left. It would be hard to imagine getting an above league average position player or starting pitcher back for an elite bullpen man. 
    Posted by fivekatz


    Good points katz

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    In Response to Re: Untouchable RS players:
    Can Ellsbury be resigned?  If not, package him with Lackey in a trade. I think getting rid of Lackey is critical.  getting rid of him may require pairing him with someone like Ells or Pedroia or Bard.  I think Pedroia has to stay.  The Sox need a personality like Pedroia on the team. I guess another way to look at it is which really good young player can you part with?  Package him with Lackey.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover


    So rather than deal Ellsbury for as much as possible at his probable peak, you think the Sox need to devalue him just to get some mediocrity in return?

    Either deal Lackey on his own or simply keep him.  But why bring the rest of the team down with these far-fetched scenarios?  It's very likely the Sox would be a better team with Ellsbury and Lackey (or someone traded  straight up for Lackey) than with whatever that package brings.

    And seriously, unless you actually know Lackey, can people quit predicating this with his personality and clubhouse demeanor (I can read in between the lines here), none of which has even been verified to be a problem?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    In Response to Re: Untouchable RS players:
    The only question I have for those of you who want to trade Ells is this;  Who's playing center field?
    Posted by S5


    Whoever has the best spring training between Reddick, Kalish & Grady Sizemore.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    I want to know why Bard is untouchable and Lester isn't...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from williamlineberry. Show williamlineberry's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    It looks to me like we would be better off to just eat his salay and out and out release him. I know that would be a bitter pill to swallow, but it would be better that him costing us some 6-8 games next year. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Untouchable RS players

    In Response to Re: Untouchable RS players:
    Can Ellsbury be resigned?  If not, package him with Lackey in a trade. I think getting rid of Lackey is critical.  getting rid of him may require pairing him with someone like Ells or Pedroia or Bard.  I think Pedroia has to stay.  The Sox need a personality like Pedroia on the team. I guess another way to look at it is which really good young player can you part with?  Package him with Lackey.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover


    simle package him with theo.
     
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