V-Mart's Defense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    V-Mart's Defense

    Now that we have two catcher's that can't hit or play defense, how bad was Victor Martinez really? Everyone said, he's 32 and can only catch for a couple more years, or see, Detrioit didn't even want him a FT catcher.
    Well I say this, if we had Vmart behind the plate at the start of this year, this team would not be 10-13.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    Red Sox Continue Eyeing Catching Help

    The Red Sox continue to look out for possible catching help and the names on their potential wish list include Bengie Molina, Ivan Rodriguez and Chris Snyder, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Peter Gammons said today on WEEI’s Mut & Merloni show that the Red Sox are prepared to continue with Jason Varitek and Jarrod Saltalamacchia even though they’ve considered other options. 

    “I know what they were trying to do. They looked around. They didn’t have money to spend,” Gammons said. “They couldn’t go get Bengie Molina. They weren’t going to spend the money at this point.”

    Boston’s interest in Snyder would likely fade if Pittsburgh’s asking price is high and Rosenthal hears that the Pirates are pleased with the catcher’s game calling and receiving ability so far in 2011. He's hitting at a respectable .333/.387/.407 clip so far and Arizona is responsible for $3MM of the $6.5MM remaining on his contract. As a result, it doesn’t appear that the Pirates are intent on moving him.

    Gammons noted that the Red Sox don’t feel they have the answer to their catching issues in the minor leagues. That means trade

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    I like Victor a lot.  But I'm not sure he would have helped us to this point.  He got off to a pretty slow start with the Tigers (709 OPS) and is now on the DL.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    In Response to V-Mart's Defense:
    [QUOTE]Now that we have two catcher's that can't hit or play defense, how bad was Victor Martinez really? Everyone said, he's 32 and can only catch for a couple more years, or see, Detrioit didn't even want him a FT catcher. Well I say this, if we had Vmart behind the plate at the start of this year, this team would not be 10-13.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    We could have Victor, who would unfortunately not be playing at the moment, but probably not Gonzo and Crawford.  This doesn't look so bad right now, but, i am projecting here, I think it will be better to have Gonzo/Crawford in the fold for the next 6-7 years than V-Mart for 2-3.  Of course, this doesn't solve the catching problem at the moment.  But, the Salty experiment was, to me, just the inevitable wild card that came out of throwing the vault at Adrian and Carl.  And, as the Rangers before us already know, it is doomed to failure.  But they had to roll the dice on that one.  They balked at the Russell martin money-to-hip-risk ratio after the signings, as they had to.  I don't know.  Theo is going to have to reach into his bag of tricks to salvage this one.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    Don't care for Martinez, he was way over-rated.

    Would rather have the guy they traded away for Martinez, Justin Masterson.

    5-0 , 2.18 ERA.

    Hard to argue with those numbers. Could've had him instead of Lackey in our rotation.

    Another bad Theo deal.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from silversteinsox. Show silversteinsox's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    Alibi Ike, Alibi Ike
    He's our man
    If he can't alibi
    Nobody can

    Alibi Ike, Alibi Ike
    He's our man
    A whole bag
    Of handy excuses

    Alibi, Ike, Alibi Ike
    He's our man
    The man with concerns
    Keeping all of us honest and realistic

    Alibi Ike
    Will he disappear after a winning streak?
    Only the shadow knows.
    Who knows what is lurking in his soul.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    In Response to Re: V-Mart's Defense:
    [QUOTE]Alibi Ike, Alibi Ike He's our man If he can't alibi Nobody can Alibi Ike, Alibi Ike He's our man A whole bag Of handy excuses Alibi, Ike, Alibi Ike He's our man The man with concerns Keeping all of us honest and realistic Alibi Ike Will he disappear after a winning streak? Only the shadow knows. Who knows what is lurking in his soul.
    Posted by silversteinsox[/QUOTE]

    A poet and didn't know it but your feet show it, they're longggggg-fellows!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    In Response to Re: V-Mart's Defense:
    [QUOTE]Don't care for Martinez, he was way over-rated. Would rather have the guy they traded away for Martinez, Justin Masterson. 5-0 , 2.18 ERA. Hard to argue with those numbers. Could've had him instead of Lackey in our rotation. Another bad Theo deal.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Agree with you about Masterson.   I was very disappointed when we traded him. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from niz-58. Show niz-58's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    In Response to V-Mart's Defense:
    [QUOTE]Now that we have two catcher's that can't hit or play defense, how bad was Victor Martinez really? Everyone said, he's 32 and can only catch for a couple more years, or see, Detrioit didn't even want him a FT catcher. Well I say this, if we had Vmart behind the plate at the start of this year, this team would not be 10-13.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, not buying it. Having Martinez would not have prevented
    Dice-K's 2 inning horror show, Bard's blowing three games, Youks slow start, Ellsburys slow start or A-Gons average start.

    Buchholz MAY have a better record to date, but I'm not convinced of that either.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    I respectfully disagree, Ike.  V-Mart's bat was worth keeping him around as a DH, but Papi was the DH because of his contract (that the Red Sox did not want to eat).  Also, his work behind the plate and the handling of the staff was suspect; his age was a tipping point as well. 

    To date, I think the Salty/Tek combo behind the plate is about the same, thanks to Tek, though at the plate, we wish V-Mart was still around.  Net-net, zero-sum. 

    Plus, there is the over-arching question: Is V-Mart an everyday C  In his 16 games with Detroit, he has caught 5 and DH in 11.  Detroit seems to acknowledge that V-Mart, nice guy, good stick, is not an everyday catcher. 

    I am not sure that the Red Sox would have a better record with him around.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    In Response to Re: V-Mart's Defense:
    [QUOTE]I respectfully disagree, Ike.  V-Mart's bat was worth keeping him around as a DH, but Papi was the DH because of his contract (that the Red Sox did not want to eat).  Also, his work behind the plate and the handling of the staff was suspect; his age was a tipping point as well.  To date, I think the Salty/Tek combo behind the plate is about the same, thanks to Tek, though at the plate, we wish V-Mart was still around.  Net-net, zero-sum.  Plus, there is the over-arching question: Is V-Mart an everyday C  In his 16 games with Detroit, he has caught 5 and DH in 11.  Detroit seems to acknowledge that V-Mart, nice guy, good stick, is not an everyday catcher.  I am not sure that the Red Sox would have a better record with him around.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    I happen to believe the pitching would have been better with a catcher that knows the staff. He caught them for nearly a year and a half, and as much as I don't put much stock in CERA, there is a comfort level level with battery mates that can make a difference in performance. The offense plus is a no-brainer.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    Sox would not have had to eat anything related to Ortiz once the 2010 season ended......
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ConcernTroll. Show ConcernTroll's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    V-Mart's defense was a bugaboo to waste money on a long term contract on Crawford and Walmart shop in the discount bin for a catcher. The good news is that this issue won't decide the season, starting pitching will.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    Scioscia called it correclty when he called pitcher and catcher a marriage. Buch and VMart had a great marriage. End of story.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    Martinez started off slow last year but hit LH pitchers rather well if I remember correctly. 

    Martinez contract was for around $40 mil or so right. Crawford's was $142 mil. Adrian Gonzalez was $154 mil. They were just hot for these two guys and wanted the picks they represented so they ended up spending over twice as much for them ( including Beltre ). Would we be a better team right now with Adrian Beltre and Martinez in the lineup....I think yes.

    In two years would we be? Maybe not but we would also have an extra $20 mil per year then to fix whatever problems arise plus Rizzo, Kelly and Fuentes to help out.

    I wish I could just focus on the positive and root for what we have in the fold. I'm still rooting for them but for the first time since Theo got in charge I have serious doubts about his decisions in the off season.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    In Response to Re: V-Mart's Defense:
    [QUOTE]Don't care for Martinez, he was way over-rated. Would rather have the guy they traded away for Martinez, Justin Masterson. 5-0 , 2.18 ERA. Hard to argue with those numbers. Could've had him instead of Lackey in our rotation. Another bad Theo deal.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but your hind sight is great !! At the time we traded Masterson he was well regarded prospect that had pitched a few good games, but from what I recall he was fair at best the rest of his starts. Who would know that he would now be 5-0. Like I said hind sight is great. And please cut the garbage about another bad Theo deal. If you hadn't noticed Theo has also made some fine deals. Every GM makes both good and bad deals, so if you only want to remember the ones that didn't work out, it only shows you know little about baseball.

    Masterson before this year was 16-28 with an era well above 4.25, and 4.50 with the Sox, and a combined 7-20 with an ERA of over 4.60 with Cleveland in 2009-2010. The Sox gave up on him possibly too early, but how many pitchers have we seen over the years who get into hot streaks, then settle into mediocrity. I wish Masterson all the best, but he's only been putting up great numbers for a short time this season, so it's too early to make judgements on the trade. V-Mart did give us solid hitting while he was here even though his catching was suspect.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    Boom I don't get the math in two years. In 2013 Beltre will be making $16M and still have two years $35M remaining with an option) and V Mart will be making $13M. That's $29M and the players will be 34 that year.

    Crawford will be making $20M that season and Gonzo $21M. That's $41M. They will be 31 and 32 that year, the ages Victor and Beltre were when they walked.

    $41-$29 is $12M not $20M. I get the critique of the Gonzalez trade because you feel strongly about the prospects given up but it is early to determine if the prospective value will ever be real. Frankly I think of the two big off season moves the one that is more open to question was the signing of Crawford.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    In Response to Re: V-Mart's Defense:
    [QUOTE]Don't care for Martinez, he was way over-rated. Would rather have the guy they traded away for Martinez, Justin Masterson. 5-0 , 2.18 ERA. Hard to argue with those numbers. Could've had him instead of Lackey in our rotation. Another bad Theo deal.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Another bad Theo deal? Really?

    What about the 1-7 with a 4.50 ERA in 2009 after the trade?
    What about the 6-13 with a 4.70 ERA in 2010?

    Martinez for that was a steal. If the Sox re-signed Martinez, the Sox wouldn't have had Crawford or Gonzalez. So at the end of this season, let's compare Crawford's numbers (or Gonzalez) and compare them with both Masterson and Martinez. And for that matter Lackey's.

    I'll bet when all is said and done, all three have better numbers than Masterson, and I'm rooting for the kid. I hope he does great in Cleveland.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    In Response to Re: V-Mart's Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: V-Mart's Defense : Sorry, but your hind sight is great !! At the time we traded Masterson he was well regarded prospect that had pitched a few good games, but from what I recall he was fair at best the rest of his starts. Who would know that he would now be 5-0. Like I said hind sight is great. And please cut the garbage about another bad Theo deal. If you hadn't noticed Theo has also made some fine deals. Every GM makes both good and bad deals, so if you only want to remember the ones that didn't work out, it only shows you know little about baseball.  
    Posted by Hetchinspete[/QUOTE]just to add on at the time Masterson had been getting killed by LH at the MLB level, largely making him a RH relief specialist and spot starter you hoped you could get 6 runs for. That trend continued until this hot start in 2011. If he still has an ERA under 3.00 at the all star break it is worth talking about then but for all the grief Victor got on this board, if the RS don't pick him up at the deadline in 2009, they most likely never make the playoffs.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from REDSOX-11. Show REDSOX-11's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    didn't crawford steal like 6 bases on him in one game?


    In Response to V-Mart's Defense:
    [QUOTE]Now that we have two catcher's that can't hit or play defense, how bad was Victor Martinez really? Everyone said, he's 32 and can only catch for a couple more years, or see, Detrioit didn't even want him a FT catcher. Well I say this, if we had Vmart behind the plate at the start of this year, this team would not be 10-13.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Natick-Ned. Show Natick-Ned's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    In Response to Re: V-Mart's Defense:
    [QUOTE]didn't crawford steal like 6 bases on him in one game? In Response to V-Mart's Defense :
    Posted by REDSOX-11[/QUOTE]

    Doesn't this statement contradict your act or routine? Were you for letting VMart leave or not?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    I think ALIBIIKE is absolutely right when he said this team would not be 10-13 had VMART been retained. I have no doubt about it. It would likely be 7-16!

    Sorry Ike, but VMART had 9 months of familiarity with the pitchers, and yet his catching counterparts continuously and consistently got far more from the pitching staff.

    Furthermore, offensively, he started off slow for Boston last year. If you recall, he had 5 RBI's in his first 6 weeks, despite hitting 3rd.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kbev97. Show kbev97's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    The only Ikes that I remember are Eisenhower and Ike Delock. I would expect Delock to be a Boston fan. Alibi sounds to me like he likes to be the pretender with an alibi. Who did Bob Veale play for?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: V-Mart's Defense

    Tough to make a case for wanting a $13M catcher with a .709 on the DL.
     
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