Valentine needs to be fired

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sox Nanny. Show Sox Nanny's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    I think BOSOX1941 was either joking or totally drunk when he wrote that Valentine is one of the best managers in baseball today.  Maybe he has an old black & white TV from 1941 and can't see the picture with all the snow. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Fire him, He hasn't had a hit in weeks.  His pitching sucks too.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Blaming Valentine for much of the failure this year is absurd. I don't recall him ever starting a game or even throwing a single pitch.

    If we cannot judge a manager because he doesn't pitch or bat, then why are we having this conversation?  Why have you complained about Tito for years?  Why don't the RS hire me since I'll work for only $1M?

    Past that, let's make it simple.  Relatively speaking, he will finish the year about 15 games behind where Tito's team finished last year.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    This team had more than it's share of press last season, so what happens? They hire a guy who works for the press. Anyone who thought it couldn't get any worse should think about that little fact. More crap in the press than we've ever had. And it's not the players and it's not the coaches.

    When Johnny Damon went to the Yankees, my dad, a lifelong Yankee fan originally from the Bronx, would call him "the spokesman". He thought he talked too much, and was always talking for the team. I think Valentine is "the spokesman" -- behind the scenes and in front of them. An absolute nightmare as a manager for a team. Whatever is wrong with the Sox -- real or imagined in his mind --  will be played out for all to see. And he's good with that.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    There was/is so much venom still at Francona by so many fans on this board. It's astounding how much grief he receives here in comparison to Bobby Valentine, who has not only proven he's a far worse manager, but certainly A FAR WORSE PERSON.

    Over the line Cater. Unless you know Valentine personally you have no right to judge him as a person. From what I hear he is very active in charitable activities. Are you?
    Your post is idiotic.



    There's a certain poster on an other board you frequent that has said much worse about BV, including hoping the man would "drop dead".

    Didn't seem to bother you much. Go figure...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    There's a certain poster on an other board you frequent that has said much worse about BV, including hoping the man would "drop dead".

    I don't like that kind of language either. It does bother me. I just don't comment on every post that bothers me. Hope that works for you.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Blaming Valentine for much of the failure this year is absurd. I don't recall him ever starting a game or even throwing a single pitch.

    If we cannot judge a manager because he doesn't pitch or bat, then why are we having this conversation? Why have you complained about Tito for years? Why don't the RS hire me since I'll work for only $1M?


    Past that, let's make it simple. Relatively speaking, he will finish the year about 15 games behind where Tito team finished last year.

    You are missing the point again. Let me spell it out: the team this year is far less talented than the teams Francona was handed. If a manager is handed a good team I expect him to win a lot of games; conversely, if a manager is handed dog feces masquerading as a professional baseball team, I expect the team to stink, as they do this year. You cannot seriously be blaming Valentine for any significant portion of the failures of the Red Sox this year I hope. Check out our team ERA if you want to see why we stink.
    Perhaps you would like to suggest a manager who would have lead this team into the playoffs this year...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    There's a certain poster on an other board you frequent that has said much worse about BV, including hoping the man would "drop dead".

    I don't like that kind of language either. It does bother me. I just don't comment on every post that bothers me. Hope that works for you.



    Selective lecturing works you, obviously.

    The unnamed poster is your buddy, whom you usually agree with, DannyCater is not.

    "Excessive pom-pom waving" seems to be a federal crime with you, but wishing someone  dead, no problem.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Selective lecturing works you, obviously.

    The unnamed poster is your buddy, whom you usually agree with, DannyCater is not.

    "Excessive pom-pom waving" seems to be a federal crime with you, but wishing someone dead, no problem.

    Yes, selective lecturing does work for me. You should try it sometime rather than being the obnoxious buffoon that is your persona here at times. If I did not employ selective lecturing I would be correcting many more of your posts. End of discussion.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    Selective lecturing works you, obviously.

    The unnamed poster is your buddy, whom you usually agree with, DannyCater is not.

    "Excessive pom-pom waving" seems to be a federal crime with you, but wishing someone dead, no problem.

    Yes, selective lecturing does work for me. You should try it sometime rather than being the obnoxious buffoon that is your persona here at times. If I did not employ selective lecturing I would be correcting many more of your posts. End of discussion.



    You admit you're a hypocrite.

    That's progress...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    what is "needs"?
    that will magically fix this mess?
    wasnt it tito that "needs" to be fired?
    maybe next year we can have a different manager every single game.
    162 managers. 
    sigh...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    You do a good job of making stuff up pumpsie. I stand byBV being a lesser person when this guy intentionally embarrassed Aceves several times since their "argument." This guy is clearly hurting the progress of youngsters who must now understand what it's like to work under a guy who is clearly not in his right mind. I compared him to a more compassionate Tito, who always had the players backs even when he didn't really want to. That's keeping trust with the troops. BV is the guy who would sell you down the river, and he has to his radio talk show audience. You can go ahead and tell us what a great man BV is, but I sure hope you call Josh Beckett the same person--because Beckett also was working charities. Just because you have the time and MONEY and ability to MAKE MONEY because you are a superstar athlete or manager does not make you a "better" person. It only means you have the means to do charitable work. Some do it for PR purposes to make them look good so people like you can swallow it up. BV is not what I've seen him exhibit as a person of trust or a person who is even likeable. He's in a leadership role, he should quit acting like a 5-year-old to the media and to the players. You can rip Aceves all you want, but he pitched him to death to prove a point and left him off the team plane to embarrass him further among his own teammates. That's not a good person at all. It's also a mean-spirited manager with a personal grude--i.e. see Don Zimmer on Bill Lee.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    If Valentine is brought back, then LL is clearly delusional.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    As for working with other manager's coaches, it happens more frequently than you think, and many a manager have dealt with it just fine. BV had 2 of his own choices, so it's not like he didn't have some people to be comfortable with.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    *over the line*....you're over the line in defending this crackpot.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    The mind boggles.  Bobby V is in the wrong because he told Aceves he wouldn't close that night and Aceves went ballistic?  And Bobby V is the head case?    The ensuing suspension was absolutely the right move, as was not putting him on the plane with his teammates until he had had a chance to think things over and cool down.  The Yankees didn't drop Aceves because he had a bad arm or couldn't pitch.  And the simple fact is Bailey should be the closer because he is way better than Aceves--look at him this year and his track record in previous years.  Bobby V gave the job to Aceves because he had to put someone in there and Aceves was (and probably still is) a horse, unfortunately, just not a closing horse. 

    Francona may well have been more "compassionate," but that clearly did not work last year.  Forget the epic collapse in September and just look at what his rotation was doing in the clubhouse.  Francona himself said later he had lost the team. 

    I like Francona and think he was overall the best manager in Sox history, but I also agreed with the decision to replace him.  What has become abundantly clear is that Valentine inherited a mess--the continued collapse (really, going back to September 2011) of the rotation--that was exacerbated by the largest number of injuries in recent Sox history.   
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    You do a good job of making stuff up pumpsie. I stand byBV being a lesser person when this guy intentionally embarrassed Aceves several times since their "argument." This guy is clearly hurting the progress of youngsters who must now understand what it's like to work under a guy who is clearly not in his right mind
    You can go ahead and tell us what a great man BV is, but I sure hope you call Josh Beckett the same person--because Beckett also was working charities

    Your complaints are sufficient for you to judge him a bad manager; nothing more. Its like me judging you as a bad person because we disagree here so much. I have no doubt that if we met in person we would each view one another differently than how we view one another here. Also, I never once called Beckett a bad person; he is a bad pitcher with a stubborn public attitude. Thats also what the Boston writers think of him, and they have met him.
    To me one judges a person based on ethical values: is the person honest, do they do the right thing to their fellow man, do they make some effort to improve the lot of other people, do they steal etc etc. It has nothing to do with embarassing baseball players or choosing who will close a baseball game. Nothing I have read about Valentine's personnal life makes me believe that he is a bad person, though he is not a great manager.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    You do a good job of making stuff up pumpsie. I stand byBV being a lesser person when this guy intentionally embarrassed Aceves several times since their "argument." This guy is clearly hurting the progress of youngsters who must now understand what it's like to work under a guy who is clearly not in his right mind
    You can go ahead and tell us what a great man BV is, but I sure hope you call Josh Beckett the same person--because Beckett also was working charities

    Your complaints are sufficient for you to judge him a bad manager; nothing more. Its like me judging you as a bad person because we disagree here so much. I have no doubt that if we met in person we would each view one another differently than how we view one another here. Also, I never once called Beckett a bad person; he is a bad pitcher with a stubborn public attitude. Thats also what the Boston writers think of him, and they have met him.
    To me one judges a person based on ethical values: is the person honest, do they do the right thing to their fellow man, do they make some effort to improve the lot of other people, do they steal etc etc. It has nothing to do with embarassing baseball players or choosing who will close a baseball game. Nothing I have read about Valentine's personnal life makes me believe that he is a bad person, though he is not a great manager.



    Does that include lying about other people?

    Just curious...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to snakeoil123comment:
    [QUOTE   So if Beckett and Lesters records were reversed and the Sox were in contention, you'd say that he did a good job? I don't believe you. I want him back next year.

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am actually quite confused by this whole conversation. It is all just subjective. I don't think Bobby V is a good manager.. That is neither fair nor unfair. It is a opinion. If the team won this year, I would have said to myself, and others that I was incorrect about Bobby V.

    I think Kalish will be good, I don't think Iggy will be good. Again, neither fair nor unfair, just a subjective opinion. When people tell me they don't like Kalish I do not think them "unfair" to him, I think that they have a different opinion.

    Here is what I see as the difference between the two camps: some opined that he was a rotten choice from the beginning and never added "but I am willing to judge his performance based on its merits", and others allowed their bias to permeate every single post here, calling for him to be fired in May, as was the case with Cater, and never once (that I can recall) posting a single positive comment on Valentine on any board that I frequent, as is the case with Breidey. Its a matter of giving the guy a chance, despite your reservations. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but thats just my approach.

    [/QUOTE]

    Okay I get your point.  I did not think him a good choice, but I certainly was willing to judge him based on how the team did.  I would never be one of those "this team won in spite of Valentine" people. I would have become a fan and admitted that I was wrong.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    You are missing the point again. Let me spell it out: the team this year is far less talented than the teams Francona was handed. If a manager is handed a good team I expect him to win a lot of games; conversely, if a manager is handed dog feces masquerading as a professional baseball team, I expect the team to stink, as they do this year. You cannot seriously be blaming Valentine for any significant portion of the failures of the Red Sox this year I hope. Check out our team ERA if you want to see why we stink.



    This argument should also serve to bail out Francona for last year's collapse.  The team ERA last September was close to 6.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    This argument should also serve to bail out Francona for last year's collapse. The team ERA last September was close to 6.

    My problems with Francona, as you know, extend way back beyond September. No, I don't blame him for all of what happened in September, just part of it. Francona was a terrible field manager and made way too many tactical mistakes; he failed to utilize his full offensive arsenal; and he never learned from his mistakes. He cost his team many games during his tenure here. Unfortunately, Valentine is only a slightly better as a tactician: not what I had hoped for.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    the fact you think he is slightly bettter as a tactician only furthers your obvious bias for BV and against Tito. I understand it completely, it's ok to backup what you believe to be true. We just completely disagree about BV the manager. He's terrible and there's really not a lot of evidence of his good deeds as a Sox skipper. Maybe as a Met, but not a Sock.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    The mind boggles.  Bobby V is in the wrong because he told Aceves he wouldn't close that night and Aceves went ballistic?  And Bobby V is the head case?    The ensuing suspension was absolutely the right move, as was not putting him on the plane with his teammates until he had had a chance to think things over and cool down.  The Yankees didn't drop Aceves because he had a bad arm or couldn't pitch.  And the simple fact is Bailey should be the closer because he is way better than Aceves--look at him this year and his track record in previous years.  Bobby V gave the job to Aceves because he had to put someone in there and Aceves was (and probably still is) a horse, unfortunately, just not a closing horse. 

    Francona may well have been more "compassionate," but that clearly did not work last year.  Forget the epic collapse in September and just look at what his rotation was doing in the clubhouse.  Francona himself said later he had lost the team. 

    I like Francona and think he was overall the best manager in Sox history, but I also agreed with the decision to replace him.  What has become abundantly clear is that Valentine inherited a mess--the continued collapse (really, going back to September 2011) of the rotation--that was exacerbated by the largest number of injuries in recent Sox history.   


    Ditto
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    You are missing the point again. Let me spell it out: the team this year is far less talented than the teams Francona was handed. If a manager is handed a good team I expect him to win a lot of games; conversely, if a manager is handed dog feces masquerading as a professional baseball team, I expect the team to stink, as they do this year. You cannot seriously be blaming Valentine for any significant portion of the failures of the Red Sox this year I hope. Check out our team ERA if you want to see why we stink.



    This argument should also serve to bail out Francona for last year's collapse.  The team ERA last September was close to 6.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]One month vs. a whole season.
    I am not blaming Tito for the collapse. His team let a good man down.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Yes, he inherited a mess, but he's virtually had two different rosters, one with the supposed Cancers/FatCats--Beckett, AGON, Shoppach,CC,Youkilis and one that has a group of enthusiastic rookies and up-and-comers. He's done far worse with the second group than the first "mess." He has shown me nothing but complete mental meltdowns against the media, and his in-game baseball decision making has been a disaster. Part of being a GOOD manager is leading, and part of it is getting the best out of your players by however means works to that goal. No one in that dugout respects BV. When do you stop firing the players, and start firing the manager? 
     
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