Valentine needs to be fired

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    manager,
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    hxnut, that would probably be a fitting end to the season...Aceves Murders Manager, But Does Anyone Really Care?



    Or, 'Aceves' murder of Valentine takes 4th place on list of bad things that happened in Sox 2012 season'.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    LOL!  Two things to look forward to, that and a really high draft pick.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    I would be very surprised if he is back next year.  However , the problems go much deeper than the manager.



    I hope he's back next year and more. He is a baseball manager, he's not a psychologist or a psychiatrist and he shouldn't have to be. The team was successful prior to him because of the talent level, it certainly wasn't because of the managerial abilities of the previous manager. Give Bobby the talent and the team will be successful.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When I said fire him 4 months ago, I was hoping the Sox would avoid the future of nonsense and dumping salaries like beheadings in the French Revolution and to avoid the ClCar from Pawtucket.....Instead the Sox are an alltime joke, the team is going to need an entire new roster--which basically means 5 years before they are going to be even mentioned in a "contender" conversation. Probably time to end this Board too. you can't say Bozo?


    When will we be able to put posters on Ignore again?

    [/QUOTE]

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    bosoxmal, a chimpanzee could manage this team better than BV. Everyone just isn't watching this guy in action...That's the problem, like at Anaheim when he did nothing, didn't make a single move the entire game in a 5-2 loss. It was absolutely a mail-in managing job of the all-time mail ins.


    When will we be able to put posters on Ignore again?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    Just for the record, Beckett has finally decided to pitch for a real manage--Don Mattingly.


    So Beckett wouldn't pitch for Bobby or Francona, but he will pitch for Mattingly.....is that what you're saying??  When will we be able to put posters on Ignore again?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    1941,

    In your opinion, who is worse than him in the pros?  If you want to make a case for Mills being the worst manager in BB, I wouldn't argue it, but he has since been fired.  Scioscia has pretty much stunk the place out for the past three years.  But outside of those two guys, who could possibly be worse?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Valentine should never have been hired.

    Hire Sal Fasano and move on...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Why didn't we see this coming... or I guess some of us did.

    According to Baseball Reference.com, when Valentine managed the Texas Rangers for eight years he was a combined 581-605 for a .490 winning percentage.  In no year did he win over 90 games and in fact in 1988 he LOST 91 games.

    Fast forward to his tenure with the Mets now, where he went 536-467 (.534) in seven seasons. 

    Most of what a manager does doesn't show up on the field.  He's responsible for clubhouse attitude and controlling the egos of 25 MLB players at any one time.  When those things fall apart the team does too.  A contented player is a productive player and he's done a lousy job of keeping his players contented.

    He's a combined .508, only marginably better than average, over his 16 season MLB career.  That may be why he washed out of MLB and went to Japan and later got his face and ego plastered all over ESPN.   This is the guy the Sox hired to manage one of the highest payrolls in baseball?

    Bobby Valentine is a poster child for "Style over Substance". 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    hxnut, that would probably be a fitting end to the season...Aceves Murders Manager, But Does Anyone Really Care?

    Or, 'Aceves' murder of Valentine takes 4th place on list of bad things that happened in Sox 2012 season'.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    LOL!  Two things to look forward to, that and a really high draft pick.

    [/QUOTE]



    Only 7 teams have more losses than the Sox right now.

    We are 2 losses away from having just 5 teams worse than us. There's a strong chance we can get the #6 pick and an outside chance for the 3 or 4th pick overall.




     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    I have been a proponent of Valentine getting fired by the first of July when the season may have been possibly saved.  But, the brass, never willing to admit a mistake, is keeping him for the entire season.  I was very disappointed that the ownership decided to let the season slip away to avoid admission that Valentine was not a good choice.

    Valentine has been a mistake since he was hired early last winter.  The team has had some injuries and some players have not had even career average years, but they also have not played with any spark, drive or determination either.  They have not come together on the field if they have come together in the clubhouse.  Heck, even the coaching staff cannot get along and it really should not have mattered who hired or approved of them as they are all grown men and not little league kids.

    All of these issues are directly related to the manager. He is responsible for what goes on, and blaming the media, etc is not a worthy excuse. 

    There is also something (although difficult to measure) about how a team plays better than their individual performances when there is a high level of trust and respect for the guy in charge.   Everyone who has played competitive sports at any level know and understand this concept.   The Red Sox have not been able to accomplish anything near achieving more than their individual stats, and this is also directly connected to the manager.

    The big trade with the Dodgers lets the Sox start over in many ways for next year.   There is no sense in even thinking about bringing Valentine back to muddle the waters for another season when they are trying to build



     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    1941,

    In your opinion, who is worse than him in the pros?  If you want to make a case for Mills being the worst manager in BB, I wouldn't argue it, but he has since been fired.  Scioscia has pretty much stunk the place out for the past three years.  But outside of those two guys, who could possibly be worse?

      It's a silly question Joe, because you know how I feel. The word worse bothers me. A better question would be who I consider BETTER than Bobby. Maybe Maddon is better, Maybe Leyland is better but honestly I believe Bobby is equal to or better than most of the managers in the majors right now. Give him talent and the team will be successful.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    But it's all the players fault, right pumpsie, right 90 percent of this forum who DEFENDED BV TILL THE TEAM WAS A JOKE!!!! CHERINGTON IS A JOKE, LL IS A JOKE, AND THE FANS BOUGHT INTO THE HYSTERIA OF PLAYERS AS EVIL...WELL, HERE YOU GO...A JOKE TEAM FOR THE JOKE FRONT OFFICE.

    Nope. Its not the players' fault primarily. That would be like blaming a leopard for having spots. They are not a talented team and the players individually, especially the pitchers, are nearly devoid of ML level talent. Who brought in such a revoltingly low level of talent to masquerade as professional players? Epstein. And Lucchino. And Cherington. Those are the major culprits. No matter how much you rant about Valentine being the culprit, he was never given the talent to get the job done. He wasn't even allowed to select his own coaching staff, and he was forced to put players in roles he disagreed with. Maybe BV should be fired, but if so its only because of his in-game tactical errors, not because the players stink. Thats not his doing. If you think that then you are misguided.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    He should have been at the park doing his job. If he wanted to spend quality time with his son, he can have dinner after the game and breakfast in the morning after. If this was Beckett, and he was driving in a traffic jam a few hours before a scheduled start, you'd have all had a cow. He makes $6,000 a day. Let the kid take a car service. Ask the A's if they can send one of their limos.

    I got no problem with it. He made it to the game on time and fulfilled his duties as manager. Your bias is against Valentine; I have no bias one way or the other. Its coloring your judgement.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

     It's a silly question Joe, because you know how I feel. The word worse bothers me. A better question would be who I consider BETTER than Bobby. Maybe Maddon is better, Maybe Leyland is better but honestly I believe Bobby is equal to or better than most of the managers in the majors right now. Give him talent and the team will be successful.

    True. All of it. Valentine is not a bad manager. He is a decent manager who manages a bad team.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Trotter,  I don't like your politics, but I do like most of your baseball common sense. Cherington MUST go and he MUST be followed out the door by Lucchino and Lackey. Then the house will be clean. If a good GM is then hired the healing can begin.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired


    [QUOTE]

    Why didn't we see this coming... or I guess some of us did.

    According to Baseball Reference.com, when Valentine managed the Texas Rangers for eight years he was a combined 581-605 for a .490 winning percentage.  In no year did he win over 90 games and in fact in 1988 he LOST 91 games.

    Fast forward to his tenure with the Mets now, where he went 536-467 (.534) in seven seasons. 

    Most of what a manager does doesn't show up on the field.  He's responsible for clubhouse attitude and controlling the egos of 25 MLB players at any one time.  When those things fall apart the team does too.  A contented player is a productive player and he's done a lousy job of keeping his players contented.

    He's a combined .508, only marginably better than average, over his 16 season MLB career.  That may be why he washed out of MLB and went to Japan and later got his face and ego plastered all over ESPN.   This is the guy the Sox hired to manage one of the highest payrolls in baseball?

    Bobby Valentine is a poster child for "Style over Substance". 

    [/QUOT



    "HE" was a combined 581-605"  "HE", not the team, right?
    "in 1988 "HE" lost 91 games."  "HE", not the team, right?
    "HE" went 536-467" 

    Imagine that everything that happened to this team this year were to happen again except for 2 things. Beckett and Lester, the #1 and #2 starters in the rotation are a combined 13-22. Would it be reasonable to expect the #1 and #2 starters in the rotation to be 24-11? Remember nothing else changes. All the injuries happen. That would be an 11 games change in the standings. They would be 4 games behind the Yankees and 1/2 game ahead of the Rays. Remember nothing else changes. Now think about some of those 11 games being against the Yankees, the Orioles and the Rays. Maybe a change of 2 games against each of those teams. Now they'd be 2 games behind the Yankees, 2 1/2 games ahead of the Rays and 1 game behind the Orioles. Remember nothing else changes. Bobby is, in some peoples minds, a horrible manager. The team would be in contention for the division if 2 pitchers had simply done an adequate job this year. Remember nothing else changes !!  I sure hope they keep him as manager, don't you?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    1941, you sure watch games with blinders on. The guy is a total car wreck. Have fun defending him now. When I was ripping him in May, no one listened. Now they're listening.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Bosox1941,

    Yes, he is a baseball manager. And a big part of being a baseball manager is managing the playerz and the clubhouse. IMO, that part of managing is far more important than the in game decisionz (which Valentine hasn't shown that he is any better at doing than Francona).

    IMO, in most casez, the in game decisionz are pretty straight forward. But even there, knowing your playerz well, knowing what makez them tick, knowing how well they handle pressure situationz, knowing how to build their confidence - all of that factorz into many of the in game decisionz.

    In a perfect world, maybe Valentine could just manage the baseball game and not worry about the playerz' psyche, etc. In the real world, as long as you're dealing with human beingz, that'z not going to happen.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    I really think if Bobby comes back that means the inmates running the asylum. LL really needs to take a step bahey and say he made a mistake. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE] No, I keep my eyes wide open all the time, hey that could a good line for a song. Proof of my eyes being open was and is my opinion of Francona's managing abilities.

    1941, you sure watch games with blinders on. The guy is a total car wreck. Have fun defending him now. When I was ripping him in May, no one listened. Now they're listening.

    [/QUOTE]
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    1941, you sure watch games with blinders on. The guy is a total car wreck. Have fun defending him now. When I was ripping him in May, no one listened. Now they're listening.



    Those of us from the NY area saw plenty of him with the NYMs, and knew what would happen in Boston.  He is self-destructive in nature.  Hundley was the NYM's best player, back to back AS, and BV picked a fight with him for no reason.  You will almost never find anyone that worked with him that will have anything good to say about him.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE] Dr Phil can manage a clubhouse but not a baseball team.....well he would have been an improvement on Francona's in-game managing.

    Bosox1941,

    Yes, he is a baseball manager. And a big part of being a baseball manager is managing the playerz and the clubhouse. IMO, that part of managing is far more important than the in game decisionz (which Valentine hasn't shown that he is any better at doing than Francona).

    IMO, in most casez, the in game decisionz are pretty straight forward. But even there, knowing your playerz well, knowing what makez them tick, knowing how well they handle pressure situationz, knowing how to build their confidence - all of that factorz into many of the in game decisionz.

    In a perfect world, maybe Valentine could just manage the baseball game and not worry about the playerz' psyche, etc. In the real world, as long as you're dealing with human beingz, that'z not going to happen.

    [/QUOTE]
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    Bosox1941,

    Yes, he is a baseball manager. And a big part of being a baseball manager is managing the playerz and the clubhouse. IMO, that part of managing is far more important than the in game decisionz (which Valentine hasn't shown that he is any better at doing than Francona).

    IMO, in most casez, the in game decisionz are pretty straight forward. But even there, knowing your playerz well, knowing what makez them tick, knowing how well they handle pressure situationz, knowing how to build their confidence - all of that factorz into many of the in game decisionz.

    In a perfect world, maybe Valentine could just manage the baseball game and not worry about the playerz' psyche, etc. In the real world, as long as you're dealing with human beingz, that'z not going to happen.



    It's a heck of a website when every word has to end in Z.
     

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