Valentine needs to be fired

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    You are missing the point again. Let me spell it out: the team this year is far less talented than the teams Francona was handed. If a manager is handed a good team I expect him to win a lot of games; conversely, if a manager is handed dog feces masquerading as a professional baseball team, I expect the team to stink, as they do this year. You cannot seriously be blaming Valentine for any significant portion of the failures of the Red Sox this year I hope. Check out our team ERA if you want to see why we stink.



    This argument should also serve to bail out Francona for last year's collapse.  The team ERA last September was close to 6.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I was going to say that, but it was too obvious.  Apparently, when Tito had an ineffective Lester and Beckett, lost Buchholtz, basically lost Lackey and Dice, and mixed in Miller and Wake as September starters, and still won 90.   Had no Bard.  Lost Drew for the season early.  Lost Youk for the last two months.  No help from the minors.  Still won 90.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    1 thing is certain - mr. valentine never got a fair try in Boston.  management, media, fans, and players were against him from day -2.
    it's a shame too, because without being usurped i think he would have been a good fit.
    the fork was inserted the day the yankees had that comeback.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Mr. Valentine, with all due respect slash, still had an opportunity to manage the team with grace, leadership, and control. He showed none of those 3 important attributes. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    well i certainly wasnt expecteing grace or keeping his temper in control.  the guy made his mark by shooting from the lip.  but i hear what you are saying danny.  i just dont think bobby v is that kind of guy, but it seems that maybe he has been reigned in?  or lost some of that "fire" in years away from MLB?
    honestly i was hoping he would have flipped a table or two in the clubhouse or benched pedey when he said his stuff to send a message to the team, FO, and fans.  so i will agree with you...he did not step up and take control as he probably should have.  i can only guess the FO wrote something in the contract about that behavior not being tolerated. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    the fact you think he is slightly bettter as a tactician only furthers your obvious bias for BV and against Tito. I understand it completely, it's ok to backup what you believe to be true. We just completely disagree about BV the manager. He's terrible and there's really not a lot of evidence of his good deeds as a Sox skipper. Maybe as a Met, but not a Sock.


    Its an opinion, not a bias. I have observed the job both of them did and although both have strengths and weaknesses, Tito was such a horrible game tactician that his value to the club was more than compensated for by that weakness.
    Today Valentine said that he would like to punch out one of the media who was interviewing him. Another PR mistake. I have given Valentine a fair shot in my own mind, but he has really blown it. Just too many mistakes. I think he should be fired, along with Cherington and Lucchino (who must be reassigned since he is a part owner). I do not believe I have been unfair to Valentine. I waited, then I made up my mind. Some here didn't do that.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    I waited less than you, that's the only difference. But for the record, I did wait and I didn't jump on the board to scream bloody murder when he was hired. I too had hoped maybe he would be a different guy, but I'm not going to repeat what I've said 5,000 times since May. To me, he showed his true colors immediately, then continued with one poor move after another in the reg. season.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    When it was clear the team was not going to respond to him, that's when I felt he should be fired. Not before, right then.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to slasher9s comment:

    1 thing is certain - mr. valentine never got a fair try in Boston.  management, media, fans, and players were against him from day -2.
    it's a shame too, because without being usurped i think he would have been a good fit.
    the fork was inserted the day the yankees had that comeback.



    There is some truth to that, but the more important question is why.  I didn't like him because I saw him in NY and thought he was a weak manager.

    Before the season even started, he complained that Doubront had no out pitch, and that Bard wasn't throwing enought changeups.  Basically badmouthing Doubront, and saying that he had no control over Bard's pitch selection, even in spring training.

    There are no positive take-aways from that.  If that was your first impression, of course you come away with a negative attitude towards BV.  Who the heck tells the world that one of your pitching prospects has no out pitch?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    I waited less than you, that's the only difference. But for the record, I did wait and I didn't jump on the board to scream bloody murder when he was hired. I too had hoped maybe he would be a different guy, but I'm not going to repeat what I've said 5,000 times since May. To me, he showed his true colors immediately, then continued with one poor move after another in the reg. season.

    I don't think that one month of managing is enough to judge him. I would want more than that if I were hired at a new job. Mistakes happen, but he has made them repeatedly, both mistakes in dealing with the media (his most recent mistake is one of those) and mistakes with game tactics. Although I do not think he should be back now I am not going to let that fact dominate my posts here. There are other things Red Sox to discuss.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    the fact you think he is slightly bettter as a tactician only furthers your obvious bias for BV and against Tito. I understand it completely, it's ok to backup what you believe to be true. We just completely disagree about BV the manager. He's terrible and there's really not a lot of evidence of his good deeds as a Sox skipper. Maybe as a Met, but not a Sock.


    Its an opinion, not a bias. I have observed the job both of them did and although both have strengths and weaknesses, Tito was such a horrible game tactician that his value to the club was more than compensated for by that weakness.
    Today Valentine said that he would like to punch out one of the media who was interviewing him. Another PR mistake. I have given Valentine a fair shot in my own mind, but he has really blown it. Just too many mistakes. I think he should be fired, along with Cherington and Lucchino (who must be reassigned since he is a part owner). I do not believe I have been unfair to Valentine. I waited, then I made up my mind. Some here didn't do that.



    It was the beginning of the end, pumpsie, when BV tipped his cap, in disrespect to the fans. I knew then, he hadn't changed in the 10 years since he managed in MLB.  It has gone from bad to worse. Cherrington needs to be give more time to see what he's got, IMO 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I waited less than you, that's the only difference. But for the record, I did wait and I didn't jump on the board to scream bloody murder when he was hired. I too had hoped maybe he would be a different guy, but I'm not going to repeat what I've said 5,000 times since May. To me, he showed his true colors immediately, then continued with one poor move after another in the reg. season.

    I don't think that one month of managing is enough to judge him. I would want more than that if I were hired at a new job. Mistakes happen, but he has made them repeatedly, both mistakes in dealing with the media (his most recent mistake is one of those) and mistakes with game tactics. Although I do not think he should be back now I am not going to let that fact dominate my posts here. There are other things Red Sox to discuss.


    I looked at it as you could see it was getting progressively worse. I didn't look at it as anything other than LL had made a giant mistake and that it needed to be corrected before the team fell further in the standings. I was looking at it, god forbid, with a playoff spot in mind. The team did win 90 the previous season.
    [/QUOTE]
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    It was the beginning of the end, pumpsie, when BV tipped his cap, in disrespect to the fans. I knew then, he hadn't changed in the 10 years since he managed in MLB. It has gone from bad to worse. Cherrington needs to be give more time to see what he's got, IMO

    Cherington was trained by Epstein, the guy who created this mess. Thats why I would rather he not be here. If he is as bad as Epstein it will be even more years before the team recovers. I am nervous about allowing him more time, but it seems I have little choice. I will certainly be cheering for him to do the right thing.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Waiting out of a sense of loyalty (LL to BV), out of a sense of PR (BC to BV), and out of a sense of worrying about public opinion v. trying to save the season instead of blowing up the roster....I don't understand why anyone needed to wait. There have been several cases where managers/coaches have been fired as "bad fits" early in their seasons in all sports. Is it fair? Was it fair when the Kings fired Murray and hired Sutter? No, it wasn't. End result, Kings won the Stanley Cup with a better coach, even if the previous coach was felt sorry for after losing his job mid-season.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Sometimes you do what's best, instead of what's fair.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    It was the beginning of the end, pumpsie, when BV tipped his cap, in disrespect to the fans. I knew then, he hadn't changed in the 10 years since he managed in MLB. It has gone from bad to worse. Cherrington needs to be give more time to see what he's got, IMO

    Cherington was trained by Epstein, the guy who created this mess. Thats why I would rather he not be here. If he is as bad as Epstein it will be even more years before the team recovers. I am nervous about allowing him more time, but it seems I have little choice. I will certainly be cheering for him to do the right thing.



    Cherrington strength is in draft and player developement. Epstein lost his way and went the way of doing things like the NYY, signing the biggest and best FA available each year. If Cherrington is more patient and selective, he'll be sucessful. Cherrington said Epstein contacted him after the big trade and admitted as much.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mt goat. Show mt goat's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [Well said Danny]

    But it's all the players fault, right pumpsie, right 90 percent of this forum who DEFENDED BV TILL THE TEAM WAS A JOKE!!!! CHERINGTON IS A JOKE, LL IS A JOKE, AND THE FANS BOUGHT INTO THE HYSTERIA OF PLAYERS AS EVIL...WELL, HERE YOU GO...A JOKE TEAM FOR THE JOKE FRONT OFFICE.

    [/QUOTE]
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nubble. Show nubble's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    An easy answer: They dump the contracts of our prime talent, makes no sense in keeping Bobby V. If changes need to be made, this should include the manager
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dufendorfus. Show Dufendorfus's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Only a matter of time until he starts talking to chairs at the next Republican convention.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pryan. Show pryan's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    I agree, BV was doomed from the start. The GM didn't want him but Larry L. prevailed on ownership. This set up a classic power struggle in which everyone (especially players) understood management was divided. Everything that followed was entirely predictable. The entire operation needs to get on the same page.
    In response to dannycater's comment:

    Sometimes you do what's best, instead of what's fair.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Nighthawk1. Show Nighthawk1's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Leave him alone. Everyone wants to pile on to the the Bobby V. blanket party. Red Sox ownership sucks a lot worse than he does. I'm glad he didn't take any crap from some Radio Host who's just looking to stir the pot anyway!! 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bradsox04. Show bradsox04's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Everyone is totally piling on here. I would like to defend Bobby to some extent. We all know that he didn't pick this team, or most of the coaches, and that, IMO, the team pretty much completely quit on him, which is outrageous. So let's at least let the man finish the year out with some dignity. Do you REALLY think a new manager is gonna "fix" this team's problems? Get real!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to pryan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree, BV was doomed from the start. The GM didn't want him but Larry L. prevailed on ownership. This set up a classic power struggle in which everyone (especially players) understood management was divided. Everything that followed was entirely predictable. The entire operation needs to get on the same page.
    In response to dannycater's comment:

    Sometimes you do what's best, instead of what's fair.

    i agree...blaming valentine for this situation is dumb.....do you really think he wouldve taken the job if he thought that ben, the players, and his own managers would not accept his final authority on baseball matters as it related to games????

    but like i stated at the start of this thread - given his age, contract, and record, what purpose would be served by letting him coach next yr????

     

    [/QUOTE]

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to bradsox04s comment:

    Everyone is totally piling on here. I would like to defend Bobby to some extent. We all know that he didn't pick this team, or most of the coaches, and that, IMO, the team pretty much completely quit on him, which is outrageous. So let's at least let the man finish the year out with some dignity. Do you REALLY think a new manager is gonna "fix" this team's problems? Get real!



    I agree.  I think a new manager will make things much, much better, but there is really no reason to do anything now.  At least BV provides a certain amount of distraction.  I think we'll actually start playing better now that the focus is on BV instead of the players.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from puravida2005. Show puravida2005's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    Larry Luchino is the man behind the curtain, fire him first. Fire Bobby V second, and put Ben on double secret probation. John Henry and Tom Werner please sell the team to someone who puts baseball first before a soccer team in a far away place.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JK-NH. Show JK-NH's posts

    Re: Valentine needs to be fired

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I keep using references to The French Revolution, but let's be real, it's not so far off. Fans were cheering upon the Execution of Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett, Carl Crawford. They were literally cheering and all excited about what? What was it again? Oh yeah, that the Sox now had payroll and that the team was blown up. Well, I'm a little confused here, please explain how anyone in the right mind would want to sign here as a free agent? Who really would want to play for this all-time joke of an organization. Nightly, you see the team with one argument, dumb quote, terrible management decision, or decisive Loss...If I was on another team, there is no way I want to come to Boston. It's a Toxic Atmosphere.


    Why would anyone want to sign here? Hmm, let's see. Two world series in the past 10 years, and an ownership that will outspend just about any team out there. Today's players all follow the money. Don't be so naive to think that a bad stretch or a crazy clubhouse will keep players from signing here when the money is right.
     

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