Verlander deserves MVP

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP : Berra : '51, '53, '55 Campanella (The same yrs, I think) E. Howard : '63 (And he only hit .287) Bench : '70 and '72 I believe There's others; Cochrane, Lombardi, Dickey, & Hartnett perhaps.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]thanks Steven, i was just looking at somewhat recent and in the AL....
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE] Think about it- no pitcher has had a season like this since Pedro Martinez's 2000 with a 1.74 E.R.A. and another W.H.I.P. below 1. He wa the main force in the Tiger's division run, and his only clear competiton appears to be Ellsbury. I, personally, do not care who wins MVP as long as it is Ellsbury or Verlander, but, in my opinion, Verlander deserves it more.
    Posted by WE5NUTS[/QUOTE]

    The CY Young is for pitchers, only guys who play the field and bat through 150/160 games should be considered fo MVP for a much more grueling effort.  Giving it to Verlander for pitching 35 or so games?  If anything he should be the Tigers MVP only.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redlon. Show redlon's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    Verlander had a great year. He wwas the Cy winner hands down. He was certainly important to his team, but when you compare the impact Ellsbury had throughout the year, game after game, he was the true MVP this year. I think it stinks when these writers feel that they have all the answers like Abraham and vote a pitcher first. It is ridiculous that number 5 was Ben Zobrist. Come on you got to be kidding me. The people that get to vote on this stuff has multiple ways to justify there actions but none of them actually make any sense. Ben Zobrist, Come ON and you want us to take your vote seriously.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    Nah, don't like it a bit. Give him the cy young, not MVP. Giving him both is ludicrous. And the sad part for us is that Ellsbury got robbed. He'd have won it if not for this silliness.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redlon. Show redlon's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    going back to Abraham reasons for voting for Verlander. His point that Zobrist was the most valuable on the Rays. If the logic he used for Verlander was consistent, then James Shields was the best player on the Rays. Abraham is full of it here.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]going back to Abraham reasons for voting for Verlander. His point that Zobrist was the most valuable on the Rays. If the logic he used for Verlander was consistent, then James Shields was the best player on the Rays. Abraham is full of it here.
    Posted by redlon[/QUOTE]

    I think the case for Zobrist is stronger than Verlander.  Without the best offensive player on an offense-starved team, the Rays never make the post-season.  Without Verlander, the Tigers cruise to the post-season.  Which is more valuable?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]Nah, don't like it a bit. Give him the cy young, not MVP. Giving him both is ludicrous. And the sad part for us is that Ellsbury got robbed. He'd have won it if not for this silliness.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    Giving a pitcher the MVP and CY Young is a slap in the face for all the positional players who put up huge numbers.  These guys play a ton of games and put their bodies through much more stress than a pitcher ever will.  Verlander had a great year and deserved the CY Young hands down period.

    Giving him the MVP, Is like a manager telling an employee:  Even if you work "one fifth" the hours and perform much less physical labor as someone else, you can still be employee of the year. 

    Pitching awards should be completely seperate!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from cglassanos. Show cglassanos's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    @ Kimsaysthis

    "Defensive players only have certain balls that are hit to them in any given game, so they're really not part of every moment of the games they're in."

    That is an incredibly ignorant statement.  Don't even know where to begin...

    "I wonder if any catcher was ever voted MVP. I think there were years where Varitek could have been part of that discussion."

    Uhhh... Beavis?  Seriously?  And I love Tek but Christ almighty...

    "Preventing homeruns -- or even hits -- from the opposing team is just as important, especially at a critical moment in the game. IMO"

    This is the equivalent of stating, "Defense is, uh, like good. IMO."  I'm sorry, I'm normally not a negative nelly but you really, really just made Alfred E. Newman look intelligent.  Seriously intelligent.  Steven Hawkings intelligent.

    For the record I think a vote for Verlander is misplaced in the MVP competition.  He had a superlative year, but his impact in solid, tangibles alone (innings played, games appeared in, errors, runs scored, runs prevented, the list goes on and on) is grossly over-valued against an every day, every play, "affecting the play of the game even when the ball is not hit to you" player. 

    I'm completely baffled by the Verlander crowd and even more so when they use statistics to prove their point, statistics that actually undermine their argument by illustrating how much less-impactful he was to his team than any of the other position players were to theirs.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]Nah, don't like it a bit. Give him the cy young, not MVP. Giving him both is ludicrous. And the sad part for us is that Ellsbury got robbed. He'd have won it if not for this silliness.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    I have already stated on another thread, unless they change the MVP and state that pitchers cannot win this award, than any MLB player is eligible.  What about the DH never winning this award.  Although, most years they are not deserving of this award, I would imagine that some years fans believe that their DH deserved this award, but didn't receive it. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    Verlander was GREAT
    Ellsbury was GREAT

    This we all know.

    We also know going out there every single day is more of a strain mentally and physically than every 5th day.
    Verlander threw on Monday and used all his physical and mental attributes. Then he sat and got ready for the next game on Sat.
    Ellsbury played every single day using his physical and mental attributes. Every day despite what happened the last game he had to go do it again and again and again both defensively and offensively.

    Ellsbury should have gotten the MVP
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from highflysox. Show highflysox's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    IT WAS A NO BRAINER
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP : I have already stated on another thread, unless they change the MVP and state that pitchers cannot win this award, than any MLB player is eligible.  What about the DH never winning this award.  Although, most years they are not deserving of this award, I would imagine that some years fans believe that their DH deserved this award, but didn't receive it. 
    Posted by susan250[/QUOTE]

    Exactly susan, there are a lot of changes that can be made to make the game better.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]Verlander was GREAT Ellsbury was GREAT This we all know. We also know going out there every single day is more of a strain mentally and physically than every 5th day. Verlander threw on Monday and used all his physical and mental attributes. Then he sat and got ready for the next game on Sat. Ellsbury played every single day using his physical and mental attributes. Every day despite what happened the last game he had to go do it again and again and again both defensively and offensively. Ellsbury should have gotten the MVP
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Well said Jim. Although I can see both sides of the arguement, I'm in the same line of thinking also. Verlander was the AL Cy Young and Detroits MVP, hands down.  If you believe pitchers should be part of the League MVP, Verlander was deserving. If not, Ellsbury should have gotten the honor.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    Regardless of how many games he pitches in, a good starting pitcher, healthy for a whole year, faces roughly 800-900 hitters per year, and in those 800-900 at bats, he has a healthy number of pitches thrown.  If you factor in an "every day" player's at-bats plus the amount of times he is in on a play in the field in some capacity, probably a wash as far as actual input for a team over the course of a year.  By sheer hours spent on the field, yes, position player wins hands down.  But, if value is about actual input to the success of a team, it is very reasonable to assert that a pitcher is responsible for as much or more than a position player.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    I'd like the see the Ballot that had Ellsbury 10th.

    The O.P. says Pedro 2000, but Pedro 1999 should have been the MVP.  That was his most dominant season and the Red Sox made the play-offs.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]Regardless of how many games he pitches in, a good starting pitcher, healthy for a whole year, faces roughly 800-900 hitters per year, and in those 800-900 at bats, he has a healthy number of pitches thrown.  If you factor in an "every day" player's at-bats plus the amount of times he is in on a play in the field in some capacity, probably a wash as far as actual input for a team over the course of a year.  By sheer hours spent on the field, yes, position player wins hands down.  But, if value is about actual input to the success of a team, it is very reasonable to assert that a pitcher is responsible for as much or more than a position player.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    I agree spaceman, my only points are...  A lot of great positional players meant as much to their teams success whether they made the playoffs or not.  I personally feel "CY Young" should be for pitcher, MVP for positional players who need to play every day and a separate award to the best DH in baseball each season because they receive less credit overall.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]My vote is for Verlander. A pitcher may not be in all the games, but he's involved in every at bat of the opposing team. Defensive players only have certain balls that are hit to them in any given game, so they're really not part of every moment of the games they're in. I wonder if any catcher was ever voted MVP. I think there were years where Varitek could have been part of that discussion. It's amazing how people constantly undervalue what a player brings to the table unless they belt a homerun at the right moment. Stats for batters are always involved, but the behind-the-scenes, so to speak, work of knowing batters as well as pitchers, and calling the right pitches at the right time shouldn't be overlooked. Preventing homeruns -- or even hits -- from the opposing team is just as important, especially at a critical moment in the game. IMO FTR this is probably a lot like my defense of Drew. It's hard to tell how many runs he has prevented, or extra bases he denied as well as how many runners he gunned down. Even though he didn't always produce runs, he definitely made it harder for runs to score. Completely overlooked stats because they probably don't exist.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Ellsbury relied on himself .Verlander relied on the whole team. Unless of course he strikes everyone out but then again  it's with the catchers help.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP : Ellsbury relied on himself .Verlander relied on the whole team. Unless of course he strikes everyone out but then again  it's with the catchers help.
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]

    Ellsbury had no help from teammates?  Funny, I thought you needed that for a lot of your runs and RBI.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]I'd like the see the Ballot that had Ellsbury 10th. The O.P. says Pedro 2000, but Pedro 1999 should have been the MVP.  That was his most dominant season and the Red Sox made the play-offs.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    It was probably the same Ballot that contained David Robertson.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP : It was probably the same Ballot that contained David Robertson.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    No doubt.  Probably votes for CC, Cano, and Granderson on there too.  Homerism in MVP voting, pathetic.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    James Shields pitched and won 6 complete games in which his team scored 4 runs or fewer.  If they lose even one of those games, they miss the post-season.  He totaled 7 mvp points, to Verlander's 280.  Verlander never pitched a meaningful game until he hit the post-season, and he was terrible.  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP : Well said Jim. Although I can see both sides of the arguement, I'm in the same line of thinking also. Verlander was the AL Cy Young and Detroits MVP, hands down.  If you believe pitchers should be part of the League MVP, Verlander was deserving. If not, Ellsbury should have gotten the honor.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    Disagree with Jim about the strain; why are pitchers more apt to go down due to injury, often career threatening?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]James Shields pitched and won 6 complete games in which his team scored 4 runs or fewer.  If they lose even one of those games, they miss the post-season.  He totaled 7 mvp points, to Verlander's 280.  Verlander never pitched a meaningful game until he hit the post-season, and he was terrible.  
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    And Shields got smoked by Texas in his one post-season start, losing a 3-0 lead in the pivotal second game after the Rays won Game 1.  You could make a good case that Shields was the biggest reason they lost that series.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP : Disagree with Jim about the strain; why are pitchers more apt to go down due to injury, often career threatening?
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

     Steve, I'd ask Jim. However, I agree it's more a strain for an everyday, 9 inning position player as opposed to every 5th, for 6 or 7. My opinion of why pitchers are more apt to go down to injury; the back/arm isn't built to pitch.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Verlander deserves MVP

    In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Verlander deserves MVP : No doubt.  Probably votes for CC, Cano, and Granderson on there too.  Homerism in MVP voting, pathetic.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    Granderson shouldn't have gotten any votes? (I don't mean 1st place votes). Why not complain about some non-Yankees, like Michael Young (a 1st place vote) & Longoria (28 vote points)? Talking about homerism. 

    Also, Ellsbury's 10th place vote could have NOT have been on the same ballot as Robertson, for Robertson had 1 point. 

    It is not unreasonable for those other Yankees to get votes as well (as long as they were, at best, middle of the pack votes.)


    Just an excuse to pop off about the Yankees. It seems to happen after every award, whether a Yankee wins or not.

    After all, the Yankees DID win 97 regular season games; they must have some good players.
     

Share