Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from legion12941. Show legion12941's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    Wow! This is surely an indictment of Varitek (the Team Captain) and Ortiz (the driving force of the offense).
    If this is true, say what you will but one has to appreciate the leadership within the Yankees' and Phillies' clubhouse with all the egoes.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    Teks time has passed and we need to move on with a few other players that we have been loyal to because of their history with the team.  Wake comes to mind also.  Just those 2 players will allow the team to add two younger aggressive players to the roster.  Some other players will go too but that is the GMs call.  I think Francona is tired and burnt out too we need more energy and fire from our manager.  All good things must come to an end and this collapse just put an exclamation point on this season to change things up for the future. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    You mean Ortiz, he of three straight years of complaining about being disrespected, and p!ssed offf about not getting a long term deal?

    The guy who busted in on his manager's press conference because of a scoring issue?

    The guy who lashed out at media and fans when anyone questioned 3 months of terrible play over the start of 2 seasons?

    Ortiz has turned into the epitome of a "me first" player. I'm not saying he doesn't care about the team, he does, and he does a lot, but he cares about himself more.

    And Francona is culpable for allowing all this to happen.

    And Varitek is a backup now, the fact that nobody else has been names Captain is more an indictmenton the rest of the team. He can't establish a personality for this team as a backup, and it's unfair to expec tthat out of him.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from cpjohn1. Show cpjohn1's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    "And Varitek is a backup now, the fact that nobody else has been names Captain is more an indictmenton the rest of the team. He can't establish a personality for this team as a backup, and it's unfair to expec tthat out of him."

    I don't agree with that.  The Red Sox are not going to just take the captainship away from Varitek and give it to someone else.  Maybe co-captain, but they are not going to do that.  Tek has to leave first.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    I can't find where Joe McDonald wrote about the Toronto team meeting.  As far as Edes goes, covering a press conference is easy -- I wish we could get some news from someone other than the Herald's Thomase.

    By the way, Thomase said that the meeting was about players complaining about the team buses ....

    I'd love to know more.

    Anyone?


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChifferBrane. Show ChifferBrane's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    Long history of me-me-me....

    Pedro...
    Manny..
    Garciaparra

    Puh-leese...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    A few WS wins and it's back to the old Sox.  I guess we just find ways to lose from here.  Meanwhile, nobody will come to Boston- not worth their while; will get thyeir money elsewhere and have a better life.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from can-you-dig-it. Show can-you-dig-it's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

     A lot of good posts but the last one by BTownExpress really hits home.  Not so much that it's back to the old sox, but can some fans now REALLY APPRECIATE what has happened here in boston with this team from 2003 - 2007.  Probably the greatest years in sox history.  Too many fans feel entitled to championships now...............it isn't that eays, it was special.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    Not sure we should say goodbye to Tek. He would make a good bullpen coach or roving instructor in the Sox organization.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys:
    [QUOTE]Long history of me-me-me.... Pedro... Manny.. Garciaparra Puh-leese...
    Posted by ChifferBrane[/QUOTE]I think here's the difference. Nobody else in the room until the end with Manny and Nomar every questioned those guys commitment between the lines. It certainly was implied yesterday by Tito that this team had issues with each others commitment to the game itself (did not have each others back out there is a loose quote).

    And I think there may have been some recruiting of other players in their discontent. Pedro for one just thought he was above it all and had his own set of rules and never felt a need to do that. Manny was Manny and nobody in the clubhouse ever really "knew" Nomar.

    I think this was whole different flavor of chemistry than Francona or Epstein had ever seen before.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxman16. Show soxman16's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys:
    [QUOTE]Long history of me-me-me.... Pedro... Manny.. Garciaparra Puh-leese...
    Posted by ChifferBrane[/QUOTE]

    Add Wakefield to this as well.. His bid to 200 wins was a disgrace and cost the SOX a few games down the stretch for sure..

    Tek, Wakefield both need to retire.. We need to clean house a little and cut out the fat big time...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pass-the-hubris-please. Show Pass-the-hubris-please's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    Drinking beer in the clubhouse on days not pitching? Since starters pitch every fifth day... I am not close to being a Girardi apologist, but his reaction would have made Enola Gay a crop duster in proportion.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from KRomine. Show KRomine's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    Reminds me of the 1970's Sox: "25 players/25 cabs"

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys:
    [QUOTE]Long history of me-me-me.... Pedro... Manny.. Garciaparra Puh-leese...
    Posted by ChifferBrane[/QUOTE]

    Pedro was here in 2004

    Manny in 2004 and 2007

    Clearly the so called "me, me, me"  didn't prevent championships. 

    Stupid post.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys : Add Wakefield to this as well.. His bid to 200 wins was a disgrace and cost the SOX a few games down the stretch for sure.. Tek, Wakefield both need to retire.. We need to clean house a little and cut out the fat big time...
    Posted by soxman16[/QUOTE]

    I think the Wakefield point is spot on and could be the center piece of some of the clubhouse dissent.  While pitching options were thin, it also seemed that Tito was running Wake out there in search of #200, at times to the detriment of the team.

    Anyone who is on this board knows that there was plenty of anger about Wake continuing to get starts, when it did seem like his pursuit of 200 was too big a priority.  I remember one game where Bard blew a late lead, at Toronto I think, and the first thing Orsillo said after Bard gave up the lead was "no 200th win for Wakefield tonight".  I'm pretty sure I screamed "who f##*#*g gives a s**T".

    I could see this as a divide in the clubhouse, some of the old guard having Wake's back, and therefore Francona's back and others feeling like Tito was putting his personal like for Wake ahead of making tough managerial decisions.  Tito is somewhat off the hook on this because of all the injuries to the pitching, which gives him an excuse to throw Wake. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jalvis. Show jalvis's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    Wakefield quest for 200 was annoying because it took so long.  But here's the reality:  Are Miller and Weiland really that much better than Wake?  And besides, Wake left with a lead at least a few times only to have the bullpen cough it up.  I think Wake should hang it up.  But Wake wasn't being trotted out there JUST to get his 200th win.  They just had crappy options.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from KRomine. Show KRomine's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys : I think the Wakefield point is spot on and could be the center piece of some of the clubhouse dissent.  While pitching options were thin, it also seemed that Tito was running Wake out there in search of #200, at times to the detriment of the team.Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    You do know that Wakefield had the lowest ERA of any starter during September
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys : You do know that Wakefield had the lowest ERA of any starter during September
    Posted by KRomine[/QUOTE]

    At what. 5.30?  You do know he started going for 200 in July right?  You do know that before his magical 5.30 SEPT he was around 6.00 for July/August right?  You do know the only time he finished a 6th inning in the last 6 weeks of the season was when he got his 200th and his team backed him with about 20 runs right?

     So sure maybe in September his 5 something ERA was lower than everyone else's 5 something ERA and as I said in my post, the options behind him weren't great but those losses that piled up on the pursuit to 200, that seemed inconsequential at the time, well would been nice to have 1 or 2 of those.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    winning cures all ill's...

    This team failed becuase of starting pitching, not chemistry...Which then had a cyclical effect on the pen. (see Atlanta)..

    Chemistry aside...Am I to believe that Josh Beckett and Jon Lester both somehow went out to the mound in September, didn't give it thier best, and couldn't have cared less if we won or not. Our co-aces...went 1-9 in September...with 2 QS...End of the day this epic collapse falls squarely on both of thier shoulders! Period end of the story! If either or both of them laid down they owe Francona a heartfelt appology and should be assamed of themselves they along with Youkilis, Papi and Pedrioa owe much of their success to the guy...

    In the end it might well have been time for Francona to go...but end of the day this is on the players not him! Epstein too played a role and it'll be interesting to see if another shoe drops before the end of the WS...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys : I think the Wakefield point is spot on and could be the center piece of some of the clubhouse dissent.  While pitching options were thin, it also seemed that Tito was running Wake out there in search of #200, at times to the detriment of the team. Anyone who is on this board knows that there was plenty of anger about Wake continuing to get starts, when it did seem like his pursuit of 200 was too big a priority.  I remember one game where Bard blew a late lead, at Toronto I think, and the first thing Orsillo said after Bard gave up the lead was "no 200th win for Wakefield tonight".  I'm pretty sure I screamed "who f##*#*g gives a s**T". I could see this as a divide in the clubhouse, some of the old guard having Wake's back, and therefore Francona's back and others feeling like Tito was putting his personal like for Wake ahead of making tough managerial decisions.  Tito is somewhat off the hook on this because of all the injuries to the pitching, which gives him an excuse to throw Wake. 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]Personally I think the "quest for 200" wasn't an issue. But Wake sure as heck may have done his share of whining about his in and out of the rotation status and over time it found an audience as the losing began. There weren't other guys to run out there when Wake was losing all the games. And check the game logs. Lackey and not wake was the biggest turd in the room.

    Let's keep something in mind. Good chemistry is by-product of winning. When your pitching staff gives up over 7 plus earned runs a game and a team is going from best in the AL to worst in September, all the raw nerves get exposed and explode.

    The room exploded and it may have cost a playoff berth when you only lose that by one game but let's not kid ourselves, that team ws going nowhere with that staff in the post season.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from walk2run. Show walk2run's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    Does all this really matter? Make changes if you have to Mr Hendry and be quick about it. Find a manager whose tough and whose bottom line is winning...stop this babysitting type coaching we've have been accustom to. From players ignoring stop signs on bases to players swinging for the fences at every at bat. It's time for an immediate change... so please Mr Henry make it quick and and let's throw out any or every player in a Red Sox uniform who is not about winning in 2012. I've simply have had a enough of this bulls%$t
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from chronic352. Show chronic352's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys : Add Wakefield to this as well.. His bid to 200 wins was a disgrace and cost the SOX a few games down the stretch for sure.. Tek, Wakefield both need to retire.. We need to clean house a little and cut out the fat big time...
    Posted by soxman16[/QUOTE]

    I like Wakefield and believe winning 200 games was what he deserved after all his contributions to the team!  I think thought it should have been an AFTERTHOUGHT to when the Red Sox clinched a playoff spot!!  I think that's when Red Sox tailspin started when Wakefield had NINE attempts to win 200 games.  Up to that point the Red Sox were a .625 team and their seemingly futile quest that lasted for 9 games set the stage for their "me, me, me" attitude to go from simmering to fullout questioning of everyone for their underperformance!!  Becket chirping about the brutal travel schedule courtesy of MLB.  After four years in Boston he is still complaining?  Go back to a small market team like Florida Marlins!!!!  Ortiz questiong why Acevez was not starting?  He was needed for long relief when the starting pitching failed!!!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    In Response to Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys:
    [QUOTE]You mean Ortiz, he of three straight years of complaining about being disrespected, and p!ssed offf about not getting a long term deal? The guy who busted in on his manager's press conference because of a scoring issue? The guy who lashed out at media and fans when anyone questioned 3 months of terrible play over the start of 2 seasons? Ortiz has turned into the epitome of a "me first" player. I'm not saying he doesn't care about the team, he does, and he does a lot, but he cares about himself more. And Francona is culpable for allowing all this to happen. And Varitek is a backup now, the fact that nobody else has been names Captain is more an indictmenton the rest of the team. He can't establish a personality for this team as a backup, and it's unfair to expec tthat out of him.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    The scoring issue was a joke, but you forgot the complaining about losing Manny and not replacing him as his excuse for not hitting well.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from sday4x4. Show sday4x4's posts

    Re: Veteran Sox player: Sox clubhouse had "zero" chemistry with too many "me-me-me" guys

    I've always wondered about Beckett........if the entire pitching staff was falling apart....shouldn't your supposed # 1 guy step within the clubhouse and rattle some underperformers?
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share