Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    Anyone else notice the numbers Victor & Adrian are still putting up?  Victor 328BA, 25HR's & 395OBP - after a bad injury he's still proving Sox fans wrong who said he would go into a decline if we resigned him.  Beltre 325BA, 17HR's & .378OBP - Ditto


    I loved these guys when they were here and both are still better players than Nap or Middy.  Victor is by far the best DH in baseball this season and may continue to be for years as Papi ages.  Before too many people start loving Middy again after collecting two hits today, these are the type of players who help win ballgames for you. 


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anyone else notice the numbers Victor & Adrian are still putting up?  Victor 328BA, 25HR's & 395OBP - after a bad injury he's still proving Sox fans wrong who said he would go into a decline if we resigned him.  Beltre 325BA, 17HR's & .378OBP - Ditto

     

    I loved these guys when they were here and both are still better players than Nap or Middy.  Victor is by far the best DH in baseball this season and may continue to be for years as Papi ages.  Before too many people start loving Middy again after collecting two hits today, these are the type of players who help win ballgames for you. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You're right Craze4sox...The Red Sox may have even won the World Series last year if they had kept those guys!  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    Just to be clear, craze, Napoli's 2013 season was significantly better than Victor's.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anyone else notice the numbers Victor & Adrian are still putting up?  Victor 328BA, 25HR's & 395OBP - after a bad injury he's still proving Sox fans wrong who said he would go into a decline if we resigned him.  Beltre 325BA, 17HR's & .378OBP - Ditto

     

    I loved these guys when they were here and both are still better players than Nap or Middy.  Victor is by far the best DH in baseball this season and may continue to be for years as Papi ages.  Before too many people start loving Middy again after collecting two hits today, these are the type of players who help win ballgames for you. 

     [/QUOTE]

    You're right Craze4sox...The Red Sox may have even won the World Series last year if they had kept those guys!  

    [/QUOTE]

    As usual jasko you are correct just like your insight on Stanton somehow being the most popular athlete in South Florida?  Tell Dwane Wade and the Miami Heat fans that and you may get laughed at as much as your theory on why Stanton doesn't get traded this off season or during 2015.  I'm also still waiting for all the experienced posters you mentioned on this board that would agree with you.

    Have a good night!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:


    Just to be clear, craze, Napoli's 2013 season was significantly better than Victor's.




    Correct hfx, I like Nap but not as protection for Papi and pretty soon we will need protection for the big guy as well.  Unless Ces improves his OBP which could happen or we possibly land a Stanton or similar type.  It was at least nice to see us bang out 13 hits today.  Victor has a long history of success offensively that guys like Nap, Carp, Gomes, Nava and others have never seen.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    The correct move was to keep both these guys after 2010, give up on the Adrian Gonzalez idea (even if the cost in prospects was never that high) and signing an OFer like Jayson Werth instead of Crawford. 

    Youk would have stayed at 1B and backed up Beltre to keep him rested. VMart could have kept the AB's of Youk, Papi and Tek down while still getting 450-550 himself (and possibly avoiding injury).

    The Sox seemed turned off to the Japanese market at that time b/c Dice-K had failed 2 years in a row since his solid 2007-2008 campaigns. However, the fan base was strong there and Kuroda and Uehara were both free agents that same offseason that signed for below market deals. Would have loved to have seen them in Red Sox uniforms. 

    Drew was in the last year of his deal and Reddick was ready to take over. Going into the 2011 season with this lineup would have been nice:

    CF - Ellsbury

    2B - Pedroia

    1B/C - VMart

    DH - Ortiz (some VMart)

    3B - Beltre

    LF - Werth

    RF - Drew/Reddick

    1B/C - Youk/Varitek/Salty

    SS - Scutaro/Lowrie

    A rotation of Beckett-Lester-Buchholz-Kuroda and Lackey

    Arthur Rhodes and Uehara could have both been added instead of Bobby Jenks aqnd Wheeler to back Papelbon. Bard wasn't a bust yet but a guy who didn't need to be overworked the way he was. Wake, Tazawa and Morales could have filled out a solid pen. 

    As long as they stayed away from chicken and beer that team could have won World Series. But oh well. Youk to 3B was a disaster that began his career descending off a cliff, guys who looked right in the pen were busts and obvious Crawford the biggest of all. The help VMart could have provided in keeping 3 positions healthy and Werth/Beltre playing great defense and adding 40 HR's would have been incredible. 

    Tek and Wake could have retired champions and the team moved on gracefully from Drew, Papelbon, Youk and possibly even Beckett after the season. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    I don't want any "hindsight is 20/20" comments either. Plenty of us wanted to keep Victor Martinez and Adrian Beltre in lieu of acquiring Adrian Gonzalez and signing Carl Crawford. That was a horrendous off-season.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to davidap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't want any "hindsight is 20/20" comments either. Plenty of us wanted to keep Victor Martinez and Adrian Beltre in lieu of acquiring Adrian Gonzalez and signing Carl Crawford. That was a horrendous off-season.

    [/QUOTE]

    It wasn't exactly those two guys over Gonzalez and Crawford. It was more those two over AGon. AGon was going to cost 21-22 million a year. Beltre and VMart combined would have cost 26-29 million.

    Youkilis was going to be 32 and was only owed 25 million over 2 years. It should have been obvious that keeping Beltre's gold glove at 3B and Youk's at 1B was wise and that VMart would only catch for 2 years of his 4 year extension before Youk was gone and he was at 1B. The Sox should have spend a little more for two players, one whose bat behind the plate added a ton of value, over adding the one player in AGon.

    When it came to Crawford he just never looked like a fit in Boston at all. He liked to bat 2nd where Pedroia was entrenched and was a lefty with doubles power like a guy w already had in Ellsbury. Left field in Fenway is where you can hide the Jason Bay's, Manny's and Troy O'Leary's on D, not waste a speedster. Werth was the perfect choice, probably would have taken less from us than needing to be way overpaid to sign in Washington, and the savings of 3-4 million on Crawford could have made keeping both VMart and Beltre an easier sell. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    I will do some hindsight too! Yup, I wish we had kept V.Martinez who could play 1st but catch too and we haven't had a good 3rd baseman since Adrian left. Ok, it's not our fault Youk got hurt.

    Maybe because I am Italian I loved Scutaro and he was a World Series MVP in one of their last 2 World Series wins.

    Masterson is a pitcher I'd kept too.

    The A’s have some Sox alumni Crisp, Punto, Moss, Reddick & Lowrie---And now, Lester, player of the game last night and now 4-1, and Gomes too. Wouldn’t I like to have kept Lowrie at SS and Crisp at Center playing for us now …California Dreaming !!!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    Matt Barnes, Henry Owens, Blake Swihart and JBJ were the players we got for those two.

    While I wasnt in favor of Youk to 3b, and was a big fan of Rizzo (Gonzo for 22M was ridiculous), that whole offseasson was a disaster IMHO.

    Cant complain about the kids we got though.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from psychofool. Show psychofool's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Matt Barnes, Henry Owens, Blake Swihart and JBJ were the players we got for those two.

    While I wasnt in favor of Youk to 3b, and was a big fan of Rizzo (Gonzo for 22M was ridiculous), that whole offseasson was a disaster IMHO.

    Cant complain about the kids we got though.

    [/QUOTE]


    I could complain about Webster.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    I wish Beltre and Martinez were still here, sure.  But, they weren't re-signed in order to make room for Adrian Gonzalez.  Lousy fall of the cards there.  In a vacuum, there were many people who wanted to retain their services, yes. Myself included.  But hardly anyone did not want Gonzalez.  And hardly anyone predicted how quickly and far youk would fall off the cliff with his move to third.  

         
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    While I wasnt in favor of Youk to 3b, and was a big fan of Rizzo (Gonzo for 22M was ridiculous), that whole offseasson was a disaster IMHO.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's the going rate for a middle-of-the-order 30-HR, .900 OPS type power hitter, which is what we thought we were getting. Obviously he has declined sharply since his first season in Boston, but at the time almost everyone thought the deal made sense. This was a guy Sox fans had obsessed about for years, the way we obsess about Stanton currently.

     

    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to rameakap's comment:



    The correct move was to keep both these guys after 2010, give up on the Adrian Gonzalez idea (even if the cost in prospects was never that high) and signing an OFer like Jayson Werth instead of Crawford. 


    Youk would have stayed at 1B and backed up Beltre to keep him rested. VMart could have kept the AB's of Youk, Papi and Tek down while still getting 450-550 himself (and possibly avoiding injury).


    The Sox seemed turned off to the Japanese market at that time b/c Dice-K had failed 2 years in a row since his solid 2007-2008 campaigns. However, the fan base was strong there and Kuroda and Uehara were both free agents that same offseason that signed for below market deals. Would have loved to have seen them in Red Sox uniforms. 


    Drew was in the last year of his deal and Reddick was ready to take over. Going into the 2011 season with this lineup would have been nice:


    CF - Ellsbury


    2B - Pedroia


    1B/C - VMart


    DH - Ortiz (some VMart)


    3B - Beltre


    LF - Werth


    RF - Drew/Reddick


    1B/C - Youk/Varitek/Salty


    SS - Scutaro/Lowrie


    A rotation of Beckett-Lester-Buchholz-Kuroda and Lackey


    Arthur Rhodes and Uehara could have both been added instead of Bobby Jenks aqnd Wheeler to back Papelbon. Bard wasn't a bust yet but a guy who didn't need to be overworked the way he was. Wake, Tazawa and Morales could have filled out a solid pen. 


    As long as they stayed away from chicken and beer that team could have won World Series. But oh well. Youk to 3B was a disaster that began his career descending off a cliff, guys who looked right in the pen were busts and obvious Crawford the biggest of all. The help VMart could have provided in keeping 3 positions healthy and Werth/Beltre playing great defense and adding 40 HR's would have been incredible. 


    Tek and Wake could have retired champions and the team moved on gracefully from Drew, Papelbon, Youk and possibly even Beckett after the season. 


    QUOTE:

    It's hard to say what may have happened one way or another guys but always fun to remember what those two brought to the club at the time.  Victor had a pretty bad set back for a year but to his credit the guy can hit.  Tek was really struggling along with others and Victor gave us some versatility at 1B and C even though people still criticized his D.  Go figure with what we have today a few years later but we still got another ring without them.  My only point with this thread was the difference between platoon guys, rookies and every day bats that do it day in and day out.  Those are the guys you need to pay to keep sometimes like Jon on the pitching front. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    Stop making sense, crazed....

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    Losing Beltre made me nuts - he was pure steel and grit (ask Ells..lol) 


    VMart was so versatile it was crazy...and that he could hit was something that was totally taken for granted...almost all the front office cheerleaders were in agreement that VMART was going to fall of the cliff soon (maybe they meant Youk??) and Beltre would revert back to whatever they thought he was going to revert back to....Theo outsmarted himself here and i think you could make a real argument that if the long term trend continues of stinking and missing the post-season, it mightve started here


    As always - 100% correct!


     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Stop making sense, crazed....

    [/QUOTE]

    I just enjoy confusing my fellow posters DC, call me Crazy :)

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    The title of the thread suggests a movie for adults, which at times some of our posters appear not to be.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Losing Beltre made me nuts - he was pure steel and grit (ask Ells..lol) 

     

    VMart was so versatile it was crazy...and that he could hit was something that was totally taken for granted...almost all the front office cheerleaders were in agreement that VMART was going to fall of the cliff soon (maybe they meant Youk??) and Beltre would revert back to whatever they thought he was going to revert back to....Theo outsmarted himself here and i think you could make a real argument that if the long term trend continues of stinking and missing the post-season, it mightve started here

    As always - 100% correct!

    [/QUOTE]

    I looked at VMart & Beltre as possible bookends at the IF slots for us.  I thought we may let one walk but never both and  when you look at Salty & Ross at the catching position since it made VMart as important to our team as Youk.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Losing Beltre made me nuts - he was pure steel and grit (ask Ells..lol) 

     

    VMart was so versatile it was crazy...and that he could hit was something that was totally taken for granted...almost all the front office cheerleaders were in agreement that VMART was going to fall of the cliff soon (maybe they meant Youk??) and Beltre would revert back to whatever they thought he was going to revert back to....Theo outsmarted himself here and i think you could make a real argument that if the long term trend continues of stinking and missing the post-season, it mightve started here

     

    As always - 100% correct!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    1-VMart is not versatile.  He is a DH.  In his 4 seasons with Detroit, he's averaged 8 games at catcher and 10 games at 1B.

    2-And since he is simply a DH, it would appear that he would only a backup to Papi.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:


    it would appear that he would only a backup to Papi.


    [/QUOTE]

    I think the fact Cabrera plays 1B has a lot to do with that Joe, every team has a different need.  Victor & Beltre on the corners and even back up catcher in Boston is far better than anything we have had since, that's the real point.  Beltre & Victor would have also supplied Papi with oodles of protection in the lineup which is also lacking in our lineup in Nap, Middy and Ces because of their low OBP's and other weaknesses offensively.  Nap gets OB but isn't a very good hitter, Middy can't hit a lick and so far Ces has proved only to be a .300 or below OB guy with the AS's.  A little different than the .370 to .390 OBP/Power Papi, Adrian & Victor could muscle up.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anyone else notice the numbers Victor & Adrian are still putting up?  Victor 328BA, 25HR's & 395OBP - after a bad injury he's still proving Sox fans wrong who said he would go into a decline if we resigned him.  Beltre 325BA, 17HR's & .378OBP - Ditto

     

    I loved these guys when they were here and both are still better players than Nap or Middy.  Victor is by far the best DH in baseball this season and may continue to be for years as Papi ages.  Before too many people start loving Middy again after collecting two hits today, these are the type of players who help win ballgames for you. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    And would you want Crawford at $20M per for the next 4 years?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to psychofool's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Matt Barnes, Henry Owens, Blake Swihart and JBJ were the players we got for those two.

    While I wasnt in favor of Youk to 3b, and was a big fan of Rizzo (Gonzo for 22M was ridiculous), that whole offseasson was a disaster IMHO.

    Cant complain about the kids we got though.

    [/QUOTE]


    I could complain about Webster.

    [/QUOTE]


    CTHugh loves Webster. #2 pitching prospect in Red Sox system.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to psychofool's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Matt Barnes, Henry Owens, Blake Swihart and JBJ were the players we got for those two.

    While I wasnt in favor of Youk to 3b, and was a big fan of Rizzo (Gonzo for 22M was ridiculous), that whole offseasson was a disaster IMHO.

    Cant complain about the kids we got though.

    [/QUOTE]


    I could complain about Webster.

    [/QUOTE]


    CTHugh loves Webster. #2 pitching prospect in Red Sox system.

    [/QUOTE]

    Remember I said this folks, Webster will not be a consistent starter at the major league level.  Maybe a decent 4 or 5 on a good team or 3 on a bad but probably not much better.  He has decent stuff, can SO a few batters but control issues and is more than hittable.  I will be the first to admit if I'm wrong but I just don't see it.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Victor & Adrian still tearing it up

    Remember I said this folks, Webster will not be a consistent starter at the major league level.  Maybe a decent 4 or 5 on a good team or 3 on a bad but probably not much better.  He has decent stuff, can SO a few batters but control issues and is more than hittable.  I will be the first to admit if I'm wrong but I just don't see it.

    A 4/5 on a good team or 3 on a bad would make him a pretty decent major league starter, even if it's of the back-of-the-rotation variety.

    His future may lie in the bullpen instead. On the other hand, just because he hasn't yet put it all together at 24 doesn't mean he won't, despite what some posters think.

    It's not time to give up on him yet, but he certainly doesn't look ready to hold down a rotation spot in 2015.

     

    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

     
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