Victorino at leadoff?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    We are talking about shuffling the deck , trying to find the answer. The real problem is that these guys are pressing. That is akin to choking. The clutch hitting is atrocious. 0 for 11 with RISP yesterday. That is why we lost. Plain and simple.  I talk about the team being in " losing mode " , and many of you scoff.  But the results show it to be true. I don't care how you arrange the deck chairs if you are heading for the iceberg. Before it becomes too late and the season is lost , these guys need to relax , gain some confidence and stop pressing with RISP. That is the only thing that is going to turn this around.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Ells has a better career OBP and better speed. There a nice advantage to having someone on to distract the pitcher, as well as opening a hole between 1st and 2nd.

    "Ells" career OBP isn't impressive for a leadoff hitter, at all. As for 2013, he'll need to do his "pitcher distracting" by yelling from the dugout. He doesn't get on base enough. The Red Sox should put him on the market and try and improve upon the draft compensation. Ellsbury will find a multi-year contract for more than the qualifying offer, and that's a good thing because this managment has beens squatting on the Red Sox fan favorite and prima donna.



    If the RS put him on the market, the QO makes no difference.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'd go with

    1) Pedroia - On base machine so far

    2) Victorino - Good OBP, great bunter

    3 )Nava - Overall good hitter with some power

    That's my top 3.

    Drop Ells to 8 or 9 slot.

     /QUOTE]

    We tried this in the past, Pede has publically stated he doesn't like leadoff and has struggled trying.

     



    If only he could ovecome that because his ability to get on base is phenomenal so far this season. That's what you need most from a leadoff hitter.

     

    If not, I would be happy with Victorino leading off. Just think that Pedey is a better long term bet to get on base consistently.




    I think because Pedey has 15-20 HR potential and Vic has about 5HR potential a year, pedey makes more sense at #2. Vic can get on at a good enough clip and pedey can hit the long ball a lot more often than Vic, thus not being a solo shot if Pedey is leading off.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    Pedey does not like leading off and the numbers show why we shouldn't either:

    354 PAs

    .318 OBP

    .375 Slg

    .693 OPS

     

    2nd: .374/.463/.837

    3rd: .377/.458/.835

    4th: .442/.675/1.117

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    So what is the best lineup configuration?




    Here is a link that I've posted before with a pretty good synopsis of the findings from The Book:

    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/17/795946/optimizing-your-lineup-by

     

    Another study suggested setting a line up in order of descending OBP.  Different studies vary slightly in what constitutes the optimal line up, but the main factor in setting lineups is OBP. 

    The general consensus among the geeks is that managers are not correct in their traditonal thinking when making out a line up card, but that regardless, line up changes make very little difference.

    This quote from the article sums it up nicely:  "Finally, stop talking like the lineup is a make-or-break decision."

     

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    So what is the best lineup configuration?

     




    Here is a link that I've posted before with a pretty good synopsis of the findings from The Book:

     

    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/17/795946/optimizing-your-lineup-by

     

    Another study suggested setting a line up in order of descending OBP.  Different studies vary slightly in what constitutes the optimal line up, but the main factor in setting lineups is OBP. 

    The general consensus among the geeks is that managers are not correct in their traditonal thinking when making out a line up card, but that regardless, line up changes make very little difference.

    This quote from the article sums it up nicely:  "Finally, stop talking like the lineup is a make-or-break decision."

     



    Good read. I have always been for putting the best OBP guys up 1-2-3, even if it meant juggling the line-up vs RHPs and LHPs or against particular pitchers. The high OBP guys with power should bat 4-5 and 3 (in that order) in my opinion.

    This is one reason I have advocated batting Nava 9vs RHPs) and Gomes (vs LHPs) up 2nd. Pedey and Papi 3/4 and Naps 5. Shane should bat 1st until Jacoby gets his act together, or until SV starts struggling vs RHPs as he probably will eventually.

     
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  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    So what is the best lineup configuration?

     




    Here is a link that I've posted before with a pretty good synopsis of the findings from The Book:

     

    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/17/795946/optimizing-your-lineup-by

     

    Another study suggested setting a line up in order of descending OBP.  Different studies vary slightly in what constitutes the optimal line up, but the main factor in setting lineups is OBP. 

    The general consensus among the geeks is that managers are not correct in their traditonal thinking when making out a line up card, but that regardless, line up changes make very little difference.

    This quote from the article sums it up nicely:  "Finally, stop talking like the lineup is a make-or-break decision."

     

     



    Good read. I have always been for putting the best OBP guys up 1-2-3, even if it meant juggling the line-up vs RHPs and LHPs or against particular pitchers. The high OBP guys with power should bat 4-5 and 3 (in that order) in my opinion.

     

    This is one reason I have advocated batting Nava 9vs RHPs) and Gomes (vs LHPs) up 2nd. Pedey and Papi 3/4 and Naps 5. Shane should bat 1st until Jacoby gets his act together, or until SV starts struggling vs RHPs as he probably will eventually.

     



    I'm not sure Ells will come around moon.  I'm thinking we should move him to the eighth slot and leave him there.  If he starts hitting why put the pressure back on him to lead off off?  Ells has never been a great lead off guy, he can't even lay down a bunt.  In 2011 Ells was getting a lot of inside pitches he could pull for HR's, and extra base hits, thats not happening anymore.  Ells needs to find ways/utilize his speed more to reach base and hit to the opposite field, or he may never improve.

    A guy like Victorino has the mindset, just enough enough speed and talent.  He can lay down a bunt with the best of them and adapt to different situations better than Jacoby.   

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    So what is the best lineup configuration?

     




    Here is a link that I've posted before with a pretty good synopsis of the findings from The Book:

     

    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/17/795946/optimizing-your-lineup-by

     

    Another study suggested setting a line up in order of descending OBP.  Different studies vary slightly in what constitutes the optimal line up, but the main factor in setting lineups is OBP. 

    The general consensus among the geeks is that managers are not correct in their traditonal thinking when making out a line up card, but that regardless, line up changes make very little difference.

    This quote from the article sums it up nicely:  "Finally, stop talking like the lineup is a make-or-break decision."

     

     



    Good read. I have always been for putting the best OBP guys up 1-2-3, even if it meant juggling the line-up vs RHPs and LHPs or against particular pitchers. The high OBP guys with power should bat 4-5 and 3 (in that order) in my opinion.

     

    This is one reason I have advocated batting Nava 9vs RHPs) and Gomes (vs LHPs) up 2nd. Pedey and Papi 3/4 and Naps 5. Shane should bat 1st until Jacoby gets his act together, or until SV starts struggling vs RHPs as he probably will eventually.

     



    I'm not sure Ells will come around moon.  I'm thinking we should move him to the eighth slot and leave him there.  If he starts hitting why put the pressure back on him to lead off off?  Ells has never been a great lead off guy, he can't even lay down a bunt.  In 2011 Ells was getting a lot of inside pitches he could pull for HR's, and extra base hits, thats not happening anymore.  Ells needs to find ways/utilize his speed more to reach base and hit to the opposite field, or he may never improve.

    A guy like Victorino has the mindset, just enough enough speed and talent.  He can lay down a bunt with the best of them and adapt to different situations better than Jacoby.   




    Hopefully hes not to badly hurt after losing a bout with the RF wall.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    Ells has never been a great lead off guy, he can't even lay down a bunt.  

    I'd say the .376 OBP in 2011 was "great", and then add in the 39 SBs and 83 XBHs...

    The .355 OBP and 70 SBs in 2009 was pretty "great" as well.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Ells has never been a great lead off guy, he can't even lay down a bunt.  

    I'd say the .376 OBP in 2011 was "great", and then add in the 39 SBs and 83 XBHs...

    The .355 OBP and 70 SBs in 2009 was pretty "great" as well.

     



    You're correct moon, Jacoby did have a couple years of very good OBP's I just doubt whether Jacoby has adapted to pitchers the what they have to him.  I also feel he should have a better idea of how, or when to bunt and use the entire field.  I think Victorino has more awareness and talent in these areas. 

     

    I could be wrong! 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Ells has never been a great lead off guy, he can't even lay down a bunt.  

    I'd say the .376 OBP in 2011 was "great", and then add in the 39 SBs and 83 XBHs...

    The .355 OBP and 70 SBs in 2009 was pretty "great" as well.

     



    You're correct moon, Jacoby did have a couple years of very good OBP's I just doubt whether Jacoby has adapted to pitchers the what they have to him.  I also feel he should have a better idea of how, or when to bunt and use the entire field.  I think Victorino has more awareness and talent in these areas. 

     

    I could be wrong! 

     



    I'm not arguing about the Jacoby of today. I was for trading him while the draft pick was still attached. Now his trading stock is useless at his contract cost.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Ells has never been a great lead off guy, he can't even lay down a bunt.  

    I'd say the .376 OBP in 2011 was "great", and then add in the 39 SBs and 83 XBHs...

    The .355 OBP and 70 SBs in 2009 was pretty "great" as well.

     



    You're correct moon, Jacoby did have a couple years of very good OBP's I just doubt whether Jacoby has adapted to pitchers the what they have to him.  I also feel he should have a better idea of how, or when to bunt and use the entire field.  I think Victorino has more awareness and talent in these areas. 

     

    I could be wrong! 

     



    I'm not arguing about the Jacoby of today. I was for trading him while the draft pick was still attached. Now his trading stock is useless at his contract cost.

     



    It's Unfortunate because Jacoby playing anywhere close to 2011 would do wonders for our lineup. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Victorino at leadoff?

    Ellsbury is a disappointment so far, but hardly a disaster.  He is healthy and second on the team in runs scored and hits.  As I said before, I think this is the right lineup, but they have to start hitting as a team and not going hitless with RISP. 

     

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