Vindication

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Vindication

    pole6, just checking to see if you can read. (And yes, I know how things get done, but I was not the one claiming Tito would get hired right away!!) Once again, I never said anything like " the fact he has not been offered a managing job less than a week after he left the Red Sox proves he is not in demand". All I said was Francona himself admitted it was time for a change, which means that he acknowledges he is not the man for the job, and that there were a lot of people saying he would get hired immediately. Period. If you insist on twisting things around all the time, it only suggests that you are one of those guys that can't stand the idea that your beloved manager might not be as good as you thought.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]So...are you predicting that Tito will not have manager's job next season?...if so...can I post a "vindication" thread when he is hired by a team before next season? No I am not. I am simply saying that there were a lot of people in the media and on this Board who claimed it was a huge mistake to let Tito go and who claimed he would be hired right away, since he is such a great manager, and I am merely pointing out that they were wrong. (News flash, getting hired by Fox is not a manager's job, but no one could be worse than McCarver, so that's a plus anyway.) I hope he does get another job, just glad it won't be with the Sox.
    Posted by pschuller[/QUOTE]

    pschuller...come on man use just an ounce of common sense here...nobody ever claimed he would be literally picked up the next day after leaving the Sox...the common sense message is that he'll get hired by another team before spring training 2012, if he is inclined to manage next year. That is the common sense definition of getting hired right away!!

    I love that people start posts in an attempt to toot their own horn, but in reality make them look silly.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Vindication

    The problem with all these "I told you so" and "we knew better" posters is credibility.

    They make negative posts about everything constantly so they'll always be proven "right." Only one team wins the World Series and it's hard to win. The Sox are the only team since the Yankees' run with Joe Torre to win more than one W.S., although Philly or N.Y. could match them this year, so the odds are great that the Red Sox's season will end in "failure."

    So they'll always have fodder, regardless of the outcome. Look how many bashed Francona for losing in the ALCS to Tampa, for example. The standard of having to win a W.S. every year or it's a failure is a standard no manager can live up to.

    So these posters btch and moan about everything and anything, some even during good times, but others hide then and come out when the Sox are struggling. Since a team has a much better chance of not winning a W.S. than winning, they'll always have the chance to show how "right" they were.

    All this talk about Francona losing control of the team. You have posters saying, see, "I've been saying all year." The problem is they were saying it every other year too, and in the aftermatch of this season, we're not hearing anything about how this has festered for a number of years. It only has to do with this team.

    Maybe they'd have credibility if they admitted they were wrong about the other years.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Vindication

    The problem with guys/gals like Soxdog67 and royf is that they only listen to themselves talk, no one else. There's 8,600 posts between them and most just criticize those blogs they don't like. They must work in government.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Vindication : Sorry but the Tito bashers did not present this situation as a "Time for a Change" proposal...they second guessed every move the manager made because, frankly, they just didn't like him. Francona supporters usually fought the battle of trying to explain to the pigheaded that it was easy to second guess managerial decisions and that every manager in the game makes mistakes. In any event, it was "time" for Tito to leave because he did not have a contract extension from ownership and he saw the writing on the wall, so he moved on. So technically, if you want to support your argument, Sox ownership felt it was time for a change, but there is no vindication for Tito bashers who just wanted him out of here from the beginning. To be honest, I can not recall one topic that presented the argument that Tito should be fired because it was time for a change...WHY?? because nobody knew that it was that time until the team collapsed in September.
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    really, how does it feel to be wrong about everything? you must be hellen keller if you didnt hear specific reasons why Tito was a bad manager - the september collapse was the motherlode of all Tito ineptness squeezed into a horrifying month of dumbness that even bootlickers could see - except one i guess
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Vindication : Sorry but the Tito bashers did not present this situation as a "Time for a Change" proposal...they second guessed every move the manager made because, frankly, they just didn't like him. Francona supporters usually fought the battle of trying to explain to the pigheaded that it was easy to second guess managerial decisions and that every manager in the game makes mistakes. In any event, it was "time" for Tito to leave because he did not have a contract extension from ownership and he saw the writing on the wall, so he moved on. So technically, if you want to support your argument, Sox ownership felt it was time for a change, but there is no vindication for Tito bashers who just wanted him out of here from the beginning. To be honest, I can not recall one topic that presented the argument that Tito should be fired because it was time for a change...WHY?? because nobody knew that it was that time until the team collapsed in September.
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    really, how does it feel to be wrong about everything? you must be hellen keller if you didnt hear specific reasons why Tito was a bad manager - the september collapse was the motherlode of all Tito ineptness squeezed into a horrifying month of dumbness that even bootlickers could see - except one i guess
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Vindication

    The problems with the Sox were Lackey, Beckett, and Lester. Too much beer and not enough stamina.

    Crawford, AGon, Youk, Pap, Bard, Pedroia, Scut, JD Drew are in no way responsible for the Sox not making the play-offs.  The starting pitching let them down - period.

    They didn't make the play-offs because they gave up 45 runs in 7 games against the second worst team in the league.  They gave up 6 or more runs in 6 games to the second worst team in the AL. 

    Beckett gave up 6 runs to Baltimore twice during that stretch and lackey gave up 8 runs to them in one game.  They make a combined $33,000,000 and gave up 20 runs in 3 games to the second worst team in the AL.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]The problem with guys/gals like Soxdog67 and royf is that they only listen to themselves talk, no one else. There's 8,600 posts between them and most just criticize those blogs they don't like. They must work in government.
    Posted by PetesCall[/QUOTE]

    You have 228 posts so how the he!! do you know whom I talk to. You're obviously not involved any discussions. I disagreed with andrew and tried to engage him in debate awhile back, but the chickenchit coward put me on ignore because he can't handle those who disagree with him. (And he's done that with other posters who challenges him.)

    Geo and I have had some vicious debates but neither of us put the other on ignore so I respect him for that. And I have more respect for him because even though I disagree with him 100 percent concerning Tito, he's not consistently negative and he posts in good times and bad times, unlike most of the "I-told-you-so" posters who come out when things go bad then crawl into the woodwork when things are going well. Geo and I have actually agreed on some issues too.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In reference to the Ultimate "Yes Man" - seems to me that a 4-5 mil a year job would only go by management decision - to a "Yes Man" - can't see management wanting somebody who doesn't agree with their plans and their money.  Management will never fire itself - so there has to be a scapegoat and quite obviously that is why you have a high paid manager - someone to buffer management from the real blame when things go wrong. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Vindication

    There you go again...criticizing anyone who doesn't drink your Kool-Aid!


    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Vindication : You have 228 posts so how the he!! do you know whom I talk to. You're obviously not involved any discussions. I disagreed with andrew and tried to engage him in debate awhile back, but the chickenchit coward put me on ignore because he can't handle those who disagree with him. (And he's done that with other posters who challenges him.) Geo and I have had some vicious debates but neither of us put the other on ignore so I respect him for that. And I have more respect for him because even though I disagree with him 100 percent concerning Tito, he's not consistently negative and he posts in good times and bad times, unlike most of the "I-told-you-so" posters who come out when things go bad then crawl into the woodwork when things are going well. Geo and I have actually agreed on some issues too.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]1st, he's employed by Fox.  2nd, he'll be employed by the start of next season if that's what he wants to do.  3rd, He said that it's time for a change.  Duh?  They went 7-20 in September.  There clearly needed to be a change.  But maybe, just maybe he was the needed change because he disagreed with how the team had been put together.  If you're the manager and they saddle you with players that you don't think are right, and then you prove out to be correct, would you be staying. Even the greatest manager in the world wouldn't have been able to prevent the September collapse.  To be a champion, you have to have players that want to be champions - all of them have to feel that way.  But if you've got important members of the team that don't have that burning desire to succeed, then no manager is going to succeed. The players have to want it.  The manager's role is to show them how to achieve it.  But if the players don't want it, then the manager won't be successful. Tito had led this team to 2 WS in the past so clearly he was capable.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]
    With a good manager, the September collapse wouldn't have eliminated them from the play-offs. It would have brought the other teams closer to them, but they would have easily qualified for the play-offs. How does he convince the players to want it, when earlier in the season, he stated that these games aren't as important as the games at the end of the season. He basically said he didn't think it was as important to win early season games as it was to win crunch time games. He Admitted to NOT making winning important. He should have been fired on the spot when he said that. Well let me take that back, he should have been fired in 2005, when upper management realized that the team was not going to be able to continuously win IN SPITE OF FRANCONA.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALaGatorAL. Show ALaGatorAL's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Vindication : I just hope he doesn't wear both his rings...those booths are small and there might not be enough room. Maybe they can get Maddon up there instead if it is problem
    Posted by thepeskypole6[/QUOTE]


     LOL... Funny how those rings really didn't impress Henry and about those Rings, Manny has Two also so what's your point ??
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Vindication

    Well, it's good to know the arguments about Francona can carry on even after he isn't the manager anymore.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALaGatorAL. Show ALaGatorAL's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]Well, it's good to know the arguments about Francona can carry on even after he isn't the manager anymore.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]


      Yea, and Manny hasn't played left field since 2008 yet his name surfaces often. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Vindication

    So Pete's not going to be my friend.

    Cry

    I don't know how I'll be able to go on.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Vindication

    Sorry royf. Nothing personal man.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]The problems with the Sox were Lackey, Beckett, and Lester. Too much beer and not enough stamina. Crawford, AGon, Youk, Pap, Bard, Pedroia, Scut, JD Drew are in no way responsible for the Sox not making the play-offs.  The starting pitching let them down - period. They didn't make the play-offs because they gave up 45 runs in 7 games against the second worst team in the league.  They gave up 6 or more runs in 6 games to the second worst team in the AL.  Beckett gave up 6 runs to Baltimore twice during that stretch and lackey gave up 8 runs to them in one game.  They make a combined $33,000,000 and gave up 20 runs in 3 games to the second worst team in the AL.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]Finally someone who knows what the problem is. We have no pitching none. Lester and Beckett were terrible when it counted, Buck is hurt, Lackey and Wake.. well enough said. We have to get some pitching cant have Beckett and Lackey in the rotation. If Buck is our number 1 and Lester is our number 2 we are in for a long season.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Vindication

    Pitching is a HUGE problem...the biggest long-term issue. Harmony and teamwork will be sorted out one way or another in the off-season by Theo or his replacement, and the new Mgr will probably lay out the new ground rules to the miscreants. BUT...who's gonna pitch well?


    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Vindication : Finally someone who knows what the problem is. We have no pitching none. Lester and Beckett were terrible when it counted, Buck is hurt, Lackey and Wake.. well enough said. We have to get some pitching cant have Beckett and Lackey in the rotation. If Buck is our number 1 and Lester is our number 2 we are in for a long season.
    Posted by maxnsl[/QUOTE]
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Vindication

    Sox fans who dislike Francona, probably hated Grady Little and will dislike the new manager as well because fans are right and managers are wrong. Fred from Fall River (name changed to protect the innocent) obviously knows the baseball far more than Francona because while Francona wasted time with the Phillies, Fred coached the Blues (Bayside Little League Champs 1983).
    Example, a manager takes a pitcher out, the reliever gives up a homer, the fan yells "Why didn't you leave the starter in the game?!?!" Fan right, manager wrong.
    I can't wait for the PSCHULLERS of the world start whining about __________. I will be vindicated in June 2011.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALaGatorAL. Show ALaGatorAL's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Vindication : Finally someone who knows what the problem is. We have no pitching none. Lester and Beckett were terrible when it counted, Buck is hurt, Lackey and Wake.. well enough said. We have to get some pitching cant have Beckett and Lackey in the rotation. If Buck is our number 1 and Lester is our number 2 we are in for a long season.
    Posted by maxnsl[/QUOTE]

     LOL... No pitching, WOW !! The real problem wasn't that they couldn't pitch as much as they obviously didn't want to pitch !! Now if someone could answer why a bunch of guys decided they didn't want to play, or stay in shape, or not drink, for a guy that was voted #2 as the manager everybody wanted to play for, then you will be closer to a solution for this problem that culminated by an historic Sept. MELTDOWN. My guess is Upper management and the owners already know the answer and that is why they let Tito go !!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Vindication :  LOL... No pitching, WOW !! The real problem wasn't that they couldn't pitch as much as they obviously didn't want to pitch !! Now if someone could answer why a bunch of guys decided they didn't want to play, or stay in shape, or not drink, for a guy that was voted #2 as the manager everybody wanted to play for, then you will be closer to a solution for this problem that culminated by an historic Sept. MELTDOWN. My guess is Upper management and the owners already know the answer and that is why they let Tito go !!
    Posted by ALaGatorAL[/QUOTE]
    Bingo!!!!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]The problem with guys/gals like Soxdog67 and royf is that they only listen to themselves talk, no one else. There's 8,600 posts between them and most just criticize those blogs they don't like. They must work in government.
    Posted by PetesCall[/QUOTE]

    wow - the pot calling the kettle black! 

    Pete obviously doesn't read/listen since he missed the point of my post altogether, that being that NOBODY here had stated "that it was time for Tito to leave" except for the blind Tito bashers who loved sitting on their couches and 2nd guessing every move that didn't work out as a manager mistake.

    Wanting the manager gone from day 1 and being his time to leave are two totally different things!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Vindication : really, how does it feel to be wrong about everything? you must be hellen keller if you didnt hear specific reasons why Tito was a bad manager - the september collapse was the motherlode of all Tito ineptness squeezed into a horrifying month of dumbness that even bootlickers could see - except one i guess
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Ahhh the vice president of tito bashers calling me out and once again the pot calling the kettle black about being wrong.

    georom you've been blind to reason when it comes to Francona for years, however, you too missed the point of my post, that being that NOBODY here had stated "that it was time for Tito to leave" except for the blind Tito bashers who loved sitting on their couches and 2nd guessing every move that didn't work out as a manager mistake - like you and BOSOX1941.

    Wanting the manager gone from day 1 and it being his time to leave are two totally different things!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Vindication

    In Response to Re: Vindication:
    [QUOTE]The problems with the Sox were Lackey, Beckett, and Lester. Too much beer and not enough stamina. Crawford, AGon, Youk, Pap, Bard, Pedroia, Scut, JD Drew are in no way responsible for the Sox not making the play-offs.  The starting pitching let them down - period. They didn't make the play-offs because they gave up 45 runs in 7 games against the second worst team in the league.  They gave up 6 or more runs in 6 games to the second worst team in the AL.  Beckett gave up 6 runs to Baltimore twice during that stretch and lackey gave up 8 runs to them in one game.  They make a combined $33,000,000 and gave up 20 runs in 3 games to the second worst team in the AL.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    Love that Dirty Water.....  but, what about Ells???   Crawford???????  HUH?  Crawford gave us nothing, but you are correct.  He, or many of the guys you listed didn't keep us from making the Post Season. You are also correct about it being mainly a pitching thing.  BUT WHY???  WHY is the key question!!!!  NOT WHAT!!!   Yes!  All the pitching went south.  WE KNOW THAT.   but why!  It was a leadership thing, & somebody let things GO.......   WHO???  I love Tito, but that's his job!!!!

    The inmates were running the asylum!  It's Tito's JOB to keep them in line.  He fell asleep at the switch.  He did not demand discipline! I think the lack of discipline led to many of the injuries. YES!  Pitching was the main reason for the collapse, but NOT THE ONLY REASON! 

    p.s.   take J.D. Drew off of the list.  HE was an absolute embarrassment.  Basically refusing to do anything for the team.  I don't buy the injuries.  Especially the pinky  :(

    As I say....  LOVE TITO, but he shares a MAJOR part of the blame.  NO MATTER WHY he lost control!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Vindication

    p.s.  Would people please stop saying the same thing over & over..........   WE F'n KNOW IT WAY THE PITCHING!!!!!!

    WHY did it get this bad??????
     
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