Vote for Salty in 2013!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Vote for Salty in 2013!

    I say again, I LIKE this kid. 27, decent enough offensively, and before anyone freaks out about his D, please go find me the last good defensive catcher. No, I'll save you the trouble: Tony Pena. Who had NONE of the offensive prowess of Saltalamacchia. Varitek was renouned for his ability to 'handle a staff' (except when it really mattered last year), but was NEVER anything special at throwing guys out. No Sox catcher is, and none will be as long as the team takes an approach that pays them no attention (Bill James).

    I also say again, if you don't want him, who do you want? He's somewhere around the 9th overall C in baseball when everything is considered, in my opinion. I've given the list before, I welcome anyone to provide a longer list if you don't think he's that good.

    If people actually take a little time to look aorund baseball, they'll realize it's not the position it was during the PED era. Neither is SS or 2B for that matter. Few guys hit .300, fewer hit 30 HR, and those that do are RARELY anythign special behind the plate.

    He's been getting key hits lately which is a good sign as he disappeared last September (with the rest of the team, as I've pointed out numerous times). This was, quite literally, his first season as the #1 starting catcher for any team. Maybe you could make a case for last year, but witht he respect someone like 'Tek gathers, it's hard for a 26 year old to supplant that.

    SALTALAMACCHIA FOR CATCHER IN 2013!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    I say again, I LIKE this kid. 27, decent enough offensively, and before anyone freaks out about his D, please go find me the last good defensive catcher. No, I'll save you the trouble: Tony Pena. Who had NONE of the offensive prowess of Saltalamacchia. Varitek was renouned for his ability to 'handle a staff' (except when it really mattered last year), but was NEVER anything special at throwing guys out. No Sox catcher is, and none will be as long as the team takes an approach that pays them no attention (Bill James).

    I also say again, if you don't want him, who do you want? He's somewhere around the 9th overall C in baseball when everything is considered, in my opinion. I've given the list before, I welcome anyone to provide a longer list if you don't think he's that good.

    If people actually take a little time to look aorund baseball, they'll realize it's not the position it was during the PED era. Neither is SS or 2B for that matter. Few guys hit .300, fewer hit 30 HR, and those that do are RARELY anythign special behind the plate.

    He's been getting key hits lately which is a good sign as he disappeared last September (with the rest of the team, as I've pointed out numerous times). This was, quite literally, his first season as the #1 starting catcher for any team. Maybe you could make a case for last year, but witht he respect someone like 'Tek gathers, it's hard for a 26 year old to supplant that.

    SALTALAMACCHIA FOR CATCHER IN 2013!

     




    Actually I am not emamored of Salt's defense particularly. He has an above average throwing arm but that is about the only aspect of his catching that impresses me.  I do not see the sox reupping on James Loney's impending free agency so putting Salty at first to pave the way for Lavarnway as the everyday catcher with Salty as a 1B/C/Dh has more appeal, flexibility and makes the sox better offensivally presumably having an effective Lavarnway at the big league level.  His production last September is indicitave of what he is ultimately capable of and he projects to be a better overall catcher than Salty.

     

    The lineup next year could look something like this:

     

    1 Ciriaco SS

    2 Pedey  2B

    3 Ellsbury CF

    4. Papi/someone else DH

    5. Ross RF

    6. Middlebrooks 3B

    7. Salty 1B

    8. Lavarnway C

    9. Kalish LF

    Depending on whether they reup Papi or not could mean that the future DH could be someone already on the 40 man roster or they may sign a mid level bat like Mike Napoli who could also play a similar role to Salty though at this point Salty is having a better year than Napoli. Kalish is certainly no sure thing either but Ryan Sweeney will be back and there are plenty of other possibilities either in the system or via free agency.  I cannot see them breaking the bank this offseason rather they will fill holes in the rotation and in certain positions with mid level free agency acquisitions and with kids in the system

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    I have no problem with any of those ideas. Well put. For whatever reason I never considered Saltalamacchia as an everyday 1B...but I LIKE IT!

    Fact is, this team is about 2-3 years away from being a serious contender when some of these guys will probably be contributing:

    Bradley Jr (OF)

    Brentz (OF)

    Bogaerts (SS...thoguh projected more as an OF)

    Barnes (SP) (coincidence Boston has a lot of higly rated 'B' name prospects?)

    Webster (OF)

    Cecchini (3B) (I have a feeling about this kid, I previously had one about Bogaerts which seems to be panning out)

    So, really, what's to gain by letting Salty go? Also, what's to gain by keeping Ortiz? AAAAAnd, after writing this list out, I see absolutely NO REASON to resign Ellsbury and overpay for a guy when they have some highly rated OFers working their way through the system. Ellsbury 2013, Bradley Jr 2014. Seemless (hopefully).

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    In response to william93063's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    I say again, I LIKE this kid. 27, decent enough offensively, and before anyone freaks out about his D, please go find me the last good defensive catcher. No, I'll save you the trouble: Tony Pena. Who had NONE of the offensive prowess of Saltalamacchia. Varitek was renouned for his ability to 'handle a staff' (except when it really mattered last year), but was NEVER anything special at throwing guys out. No Sox catcher is, and none will be as long as the team takes an approach that pays them no attention (Bill James).

    I also say again, if you don't want him, who do you want? He's somewhere around the 9th overall C in baseball when everything is considered, in my opinion. I've given the list before, I welcome anyone to provide a longer list if you don't think he's that good.

    If people actually take a little time to look aorund baseball, they'll realize it's not the position it was during the PED era. Neither is SS or 2B for that matter. Few guys hit .300, fewer hit 30 HR, and those that do are RARELY anythign special behind the plate.

    He's been getting key hits lately which is a good sign as he disappeared last September (with the rest of the team, as I've pointed out numerous times). This was, quite literally, his first season as the #1 starting catcher for any team. Maybe you could make a case for last year, but witht he respect someone like 'Tek gathers, it's hard for a 26 year old to supplant that.

    SALTALAMACCHIA FOR CATCHER IN 2013!

     




    Actually I am not emamored of Salt's defense particularly. He has an above average throwing arm but that is about the only aspect of his catching that impresses me.  I do not see the sox reupping on James Loney's impending free agency so putting Salty at first to pave the way for Lavarnway as the everyday catcher with Salty as a 1B/C/Dh has more appeal, flexibility and makes the sox better offensivally presumably having an effective Lavarnway at the big league level.  His production last September is indicitave of what he is ultimately capable of and he projects to be a better overall catcher than Salty.

     

    The lineup next year could look something like this:

     

    1 Ciriaco SS

    2 Pedey  2B

    3 Ellsbury CF

    4. Papi/someone else DH

    5. Ross RF

    6. Middlebrooks 3B

    7. Salty 1B

    8. Lavarnway C

    9. Kalish LF

    Depending on whether they reup Papi or not could mean that the future DH could be someone already on the 40 man roster or they may sign a mid level bat like Mike Napoli who could also play a similar role to Salty though at this point Salty is having a better year than Napoli. Kalish is certainly no sure thing either but Ryan Sweeney will be back and there are plenty of other possibilities either in the system or via free agency.  I cannot see them breaking the bank this offseason rather they will fill holes in the rotation and in certain positions with mid level free agency acquisitions and with kids in the system

     



    Unfortunately I don't think we would ever put a guy who SO "four times" more than he walks with a low OBP at 1B.  I think Salty needs to improve next season and Lav really struggle for us to sign Salty long term.  By the end of next season we should have a better comparison and Lav will know our staff well enough if we do need to move Salty. 

    Lav deserves the same opportunity to learn major league pitching before making any crazy decisions.  I'm fine with whoever plays but we shouldn't be satisfied with Salty's numbers just because he knows our staff better.  Thats why we needed to keep Tek so long after he stopped being productive and it didn't help our cause.

     

     

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to william93063's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    I say again, I LIKE this kid. 27, decent enough offensively, and before anyone freaks out about his D, please go find me the last good defensive catcher. No, I'll save you the trouble: Tony Pena. Who had NONE of the offensive prowess of Saltalamacchia. Varitek was renouned for his ability to 'handle a staff' (except when it really mattered last year), but was NEVER anything special at throwing guys out. No Sox catcher is, and none will be as long as the team takes an approach that pays them no attention (Bill James).

    I also say again, if you don't want him, who do you want? He's somewhere around the 9th overall C in baseball when everything is considered, in my opinion. I've given the list before, I welcome anyone to provide a longer list if you don't think he's that good.

    If people actually take a little time to look aorund baseball, they'll realize it's not the position it was during the PED era. Neither is SS or 2B for that matter. Few guys hit .300, fewer hit 30 HR, and those that do are RARELY anythign special behind the plate.

    He's been getting key hits lately which is a good sign as he disappeared last September (with the rest of the team, as I've pointed out numerous times). This was, quite literally, his first season as the #1 starting catcher for any team. Maybe you could make a case for last year, but witht he respect someone like 'Tek gathers, it's hard for a 26 year old to supplant that.

    SALTALAMACCHIA FOR CATCHER IN 2013!

     




    Actually I am not emamored of Salt's defense particularly. He has an above average throwing arm but that is about the only aspect of his catching that impresses me.  I do not see the sox reupping on James Loney's impending free agency so putting Salty at first to pave the way for Lavarnway as the everyday catcher with Salty as a 1B/C/Dh has more appeal, flexibility and makes the sox better offensivally presumably having an effective Lavarnway at the big league level.  His production last September is indicitave of what he is ultimately capable of and he projects to be a better overall catcher than Salty.

     

    The lineup next year could look something like this:

     

    1 Ciriaco SS

    2 Pedey  2B

    3 Ellsbury CF

    4. Papi/someone else DH

    5. Ross RF

    6. Middlebrooks 3B

    7. Salty 1B

    8. Lavarnway C

    9. Kalish LF

    Depending on whether they reup Papi or not could mean that the future DH could be someone already on the 40 man roster or they may sign a mid level bat like Mike Napoli who could also play a similar role to Salty though at this point Salty is having a better year than Napoli. Kalish is certainly no sure thing either but Ryan Sweeney will be back and there are plenty of other possibilities either in the system or via free agency.  I cannot see them breaking the bank this offseason rather they will fill holes in the rotation and in certain positions with mid level free agency acquisitions and with kids in the system

     



    Unfortunately I don't think we would ever put a guy who SO "four times" more than he walks with a low OBP at 1B.  I think Salty needs to improve next season and Lav really struggle for us to sign Salty long term.  By the end of next season we should have a better comparison and Lav will know our staff well enough if we do need to move Salty. 

    Lav deserves the same opportunity to learn major league pitching before making any crazy decisions.  I'm fine with whoever plays but we shouldn't be satisfied with Salty's numbers just because he knows our staff better.  Thats why we needed to keep Tek so long after he stopped being productive and it didn't help our cause.

     

     

     




    I don't see Salty's plate discipline improving very much going forward.  I think at this point he pretty much is who he is.  That said a guy with a .300 OBP and a .500 slugging percentage is not a bad option as a corner infielder.  That said beyond 2013 the sox may have many other options that we may not even be aware of.  I certainly want to keep both Salty and Lavarnway on the roster for the near term. How it all shakes out will be determined by their respective production, health and ability to produce consistently at the big league level.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    TrotterNixon,

    Very good point about Saltalamacchia not being able to bring back enough quality in a trade to could make a difference in 2013.

    I have liked this guy since they got him, but he has a lot of improving to do at the plate in my opinion.  He is almost a home run or strike out guy, and I would like to see him increase his average, on-base percentage and runs batted in.  Perhaps not batting right handed would help him?

    But, more importantly, he needs to have a much better control of the strike zone within his hitting approach.  I would like to know how many times he has swung over the top of a slider or curve (that was not a strike) early in the count this season.  When he swings (and misses) at that pitch he puts himself in a distinct disadvantage.  Not only is he behind in the count whenit should be ball one, but he gives the pitcher confidence that he can throw that same pitch again and get the same swing-and-miss result.

    If he learns some strike zone discipline and also to hit the ball up the middle he will cut down on his many, many, many strikeouts, increase his average, RBIs and on-base numbers and will still have the same number of home runs yet increasing value to the team.  This guy is a physcial brute so he will not have much trouble driving the ball out of the park with an up-the-middle hitting approach when he gets a good ball to rip.

    Lastly, I will recommend that he read, study and apply what is in Ted Williams' book on hitting if he wants to get a really nice next contract.  How much more would he be worth if he had the 25 home runs, 90 RBIs, a .280 average and a .350 OBP at 28 years old while still being even an average defensive catcher ????

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    There was a nice article in the Herald yesterday about Salty's improvement on offense and defense.  The part I liked the most about it, and one of the reasons that I admire and respect him, is that he understands that his primary job is not to be an offensive force, but rather to handle the pitching staff.

    That's what he focuses on, and that is his main concern.  He has 24 homeruns, one shy of Varitek's season record and 2 shy of Fisk's, if I recall correctly.  Salty stated that he would trade any of those HRs in favor of leading his staff to a lower ERA.

    Salty is not where he needs to be in that regard, but at least he gets it, and he is showing improvement.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    but was NEVER anything special at throwing guys out. No Sox catcher is, and none will be as long as the team takes an approach that pays them no attention (Bill James).

    First let me say again how excited I am that Bill James will be taking on a larger role next year.

    Secondly, I believe that being able to throw guys out was a big reason why Shoppach was brought in as our back up catcher instead of Varitek, so somebody was (wrongly) paying attention to that.

    Thirdly, while the ability to throw out baserunners is a defensive asset, it is one of the least important defensive qualities in a catcher.  Throwing out baserunners, or the inability to do so, has far less impact on a game than most people think.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    IIn response to william93063's comment:

    I don't see Salty's plate discipline improving very much going forward.  I think at this point he pretty much is who he is.  That said a guy with a .300 OBP and a .500 slugging percentage is not a bad option as a corner infielder.  That said beyond 2013 the sox may have many other options that we may not even be aware of.  I certainly want to keep both Salty and Lavarnway on the roster for the near term. How it all shakes out will be determined by their respective production, health and ability to produce consistently at the big league level.

     



    I think some people miss my point about Salty.  I don't dislike him by any means but our present team as a whole needs to be more productive offensively before ever being consistent enough to contend.  You start by not carrying low OBP guys in your starting lineup unless there is enough production elsewhere to make up the difference.  This team doesn't have those guys so we play to Salty's strength which is primarily SLG against RHP.  He has no plate discipline, doesn't call a great game, or have a great CSP.  Salty also SO four times more than he walks while being an average defender. 

    This hurts a team like ours much more than helps.  Tek in his final years wasn't very productive but still a much better overall catcher than Salty is today which should tell you something. 

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    but was NEVER anything special at throwing guys out. No Sox catcher is, and none will be as long as the team takes an approach that pays them no attention (Bill James).

    First let me say again how excited I am that Bill James will be taking on a larger role next year.

    Secondly, I believe that being able to throw guys out was a big reason why Shoppach was brought in as our back up catcher instead of Varitek, so somebody was (wrongly) paying attention to that.

    Thirdly, while the ability to throw out baserunners is a defensive asset, it is one of the least important defensive qualities in a catcher.  Throwing out baserunners, or the inability to do so, has far less impact on a game than most people think.

     



    Kimmi, with all do respect our team is a lot more efficient offensively "like most" when guys like Ells and Ciriaco create havoc and put us in a better position to drive in runs.  Guys like Crawford "before signing him" who take advantage of a weak or less than accurate throwing arms killed our team when Tek was catching. 

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    Salty's offense is not 1B or DH worthy.

    His defense improved greatly from 2012: just look at the PB & WP numbers. They are drastically reduced. His handling of the staff also improved greatly over 2012 and April of 2013. This staff had serious issues that even VTek could not have solved for the most part. At 27, Salty is moving quickly in the right direction.

              2011  2012

    Inn      856    790

    PB         26        6

    WP        41      23

    PB/WP 67      29

     

    PAs     386    401

    OPS   .737   .770

    HRs      16      24

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Salty's offense is not 1B or DH worthy.

    His defense improved greatly from 2012: just look at the PB & WP numbers. They are drastically reduced. His handling of the staff also improved greatly over 2012 and April of 2013. This staff had serious issues that even VTek could not have solved for the most part. At 27, Salty is moving quickly in the right direction.

              2011  2012

    Inn      856    790

    PB         26        6

    WP        41      23

    PB/WP 67      29

     

    PAs     386    401

    OPS   .737   .770

    HRs      16      24

     

     

     




    Hes hardly been a liability behind the plate like some seem to think. Actually He has improved greatly since last year and like Kimmi says, He gets it. Another year of salty manning the ship behind the plate should tell us everything we need to know at the end of 2013.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Salty's offense is not 1B or DH worthy.

    His defense improved greatly from 2012: just look at the PB & WP numbers. They are drastically reduced. His handling of the staff also improved greatly over 2012 and April of 2013. This staff had serious issues that even VTek could not have solved for the most part. At 27, Salty is moving quickly in the right direction.

              2011  2012

    Inn      856    790

    PB         26        6

    WP        41      23

    PB/WP 67      29

     

    PAs     386    401

    OPS   .737   .770

    HRs      16      24

     


    I totally agree moon on defense but unless Salty can raise his average and OBP he will never be half as good as Tek.  The starting job should still be Salty's to win or lose but I think next year will be his last to prove it unless our team drastically improves as a whole in other areas.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    Kimmi, with all do respect our team is a lot more efficient offensively "like most" when guys like Ells and Ciriaco create havoc and put us in a better position to drive in runs. Guys like Crawford "before signing him" who take advantage of a weak or less than accurate throwing arms killed our team when Tek was catching.

    I agree that having guys like Ells, Ciriaco, and Crawford wreaking havoc on the basepaths improves the offensive output of the rest of the line up.  But guys with speed are going to steal bases sucessfully, and disrupt the opposing pitching and defense, regardless of who is catching.  That's the beauty of speed.

    Statistically speaking, 2009 was Varitek's worst year for throwing out base runners.  His CS% was 13%.  The best catcher in the AL in that regard in 2009 was Gerald Laird who threw out 42% of baserunners.

    Over the course of the season, the difference between the worst and the best in terms of throwing runners out amounted to 15 runs (-8 for Varitek and +7 for Laird).  That boils down to a 2 game difference, at most.

    Now I'm not saying that those 2 games are not significant.  In a perfect world, we'd get a catcher that is very good in all defensive areas.   What I am saying is that in the scheme of overall defense, throwing out runners is less important than other areas such as pitch framing, pitch blocking, and pitch calling.  Give me a pitcher who handles the staff well and has a weak arm over the opposite any day of the week.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    Kimmi, with all do respect our team is a lot more efficient offensively "like most" when guys like Ells and Ciriaco create havoc and put us in a better position to drive in runs. Guys like Crawford "before signing him" who take advantage of a weak or less than accurate throwing arms killed our team when Tek was catching.

    I agree that having guys like Ells, Ciriaco, and Crawford wreaking havoc on the basepaths improves the offensive output of the rest of the line up.  But guys with speed are going to steal bases sucessfully, and disrupt the opposing pitching and defense, regardless of who is catching.  That's the beauty of speed.

    Statistically speaking, 2009 was Varitek's worst year for throwing out base runners.  His CS% was 13%.  The best catcher in the AL in that regard in 2009 was Gerald Laird who threw out 42% of baserunners.

    Over the course of the season, the difference between the worst and the best in terms of throwing runners out amounted to 15 runs (-8 for Varitek and +7 for Laird).  That boils down to a 2 game difference, at most.

    Now I'm not saying that those 2 games are not significant.  In a perfect world, we'd get a catcher that is very good in all defensive areas.   What I am saying is that in the scheme of overall defense, throwing out runners is less important than other areas such as pitch framing, pitch blocking, and pitch calling.  Give me a pitcher who handles the staff well and has a weak arm over the opposite any day of the week.

     

     




     

    If Salty had the league average CS%, the opps would have about 8 less SBs.

    Also, we still have a poor record of holding runners close to the base, and most SBs are "on the pitcher".

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    Kimmi, with all do respect our team is a lot more efficient offensively "like most" when guys like Ells and Ciriaco create havoc and put us in a better position to drive in runs. Guys like Crawford "before signing him" who take advantage of a weak or less than accurate throwing arms killed our team when Tek was catching.

    I agree that having guys like Ells, Ciriaco, and Crawford wreaking havoc on the basepaths improves the offensive output of the rest of the line up.  But guys with speed are going to steal bases sucessfully, and disrupt the opposing pitching and defense, regardless of who is catching.  That's the beauty of speed.

    Statistically speaking, 2009 was Varitek's worst year for throwing out base runners.  His CS% was 13%.  The best catcher in the AL in that regard in 2009 was Gerald Laird who threw out 42% of baserunners.

    Over the course of the season, the difference between the worst and the best in terms of throwing runners out amounted to 15 runs (-8 for Varitek and +7 for Laird).  That boils down to a 2 game difference, at most.

    Now I'm not saying that those 2 games are not significant.  In a perfect world, we'd get a catcher that is very good in all defensive areas.   What I am saying is that in the scheme of overall defense, throwing out runners is less important than other areas such as pitch framing, pitch blocking, and pitch calling.  Give me a pitcher who handles the staff well and has a weak arm over the opposite any day of the week.

     

    I'm not sure where you get those stats but I can think of a lot more games than that where Tek cost us games by giving up four or five steals.  Salty blocks balls better than his last few years period but really hasn't improved anything else significantly enough to call him a solid starting catcher since arriving in the majors.  His only real offensive strength is SLG percentage against RHP and the fact he has been a good team player so do you feel he is what we need?

    My point is for someone to make any other arguement, or try and sugar coat Salty's stats is silly.  Some Sox fans are so used to mediocrity at the catching position they just don't see the problem and how it effects the team overall.

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    Kimmi, with all do respect our team is a lot more efficient offensively "like most" when guys like Ells and Ciriaco create havoc and put us in a better position to drive in runs. Guys like Crawford "before signing him" who take advantage of a weak or less than accurate throwing arms killed our team when Tek was catching.

    I agree that having guys like Ells, Ciriaco, and Crawford wreaking havoc on the basepaths improves the offensive output of the rest of the line up.  But guys with speed are going to steal bases sucessfully, and disrupt the opposing pitching and defense, regardless of who is catching.  That's the beauty of speed.

    Statistically speaking, 2009 was Varitek's worst year for throwing out base runners.  His CS% was 13%.  The best catcher in the AL in that regard in 2009 was Gerald Laird who threw out 42% of baserunners.

    Over the course of the season, the difference between the worst and the best in terms of throwing runners out amounted to 15 runs (-8 for Varitek and +7 for Laird).  That boils down to a 2 game difference, at most.

    Now I'm not saying that those 2 games are not significant.  In a perfect world, we'd get a catcher that is very good in all defensive areas.   What I am saying is that in the scheme of overall defense, throwing out runners is less important than other areas such as pitch framing, pitch blocking, and pitch calling.  Give me a pitcher who handles the staff well and has a weak arm over the opposite any day of the week.

     

     




     

    If Salty had the league average CS%, the opps would have about 8 less SBs.

    Also, we still have a poor record of holding runners close to the base, and most SBs are "on the pitcher".

    moon, why do some people discuss improving areas every year but tend to disregaurd and defend our mediocre catching position?  If there is a weakness we should improve any area we can.   

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    Kimmi, with all do respect our team is a lot more efficient offensively "like most" when guys like Ells and Ciriaco create havoc and put us in a better position to drive in runs. Guys like Crawford "before signing him" who take advantage of a weak or less than accurate throwing arms killed our team when Tek was catching.

    I agree that having guys like Ells, Ciriaco, and Crawford wreaking havoc on the basepaths improves the offensive output of the rest of the line up.  But guys with speed are going to steal bases sucessfully, and disrupt the opposing pitching and defense, regardless of who is catching.  That's the beauty of speed.

    Statistically speaking, 2009 was Varitek's worst year for throwing out base runners.  His CS% was 13%.  The best catcher in the AL in that regard in 2009 was Gerald Laird who threw out 42% of baserunners.

    Over the course of the season, the difference between the worst and the best in terms of throwing runners out amounted to 15 runs (-8 for Varitek and +7 for Laird).  That boils down to a 2 game difference, at most.

    Now I'm not saying that those 2 games are not significant.  In a perfect world, we'd get a catcher that is very good in all defensive areas.   What I am saying is that in the scheme of overall defense, throwing out runners is less important than other areas such as pitch framing, pitch blocking, and pitch calling.  Give me a pitcher who handles the staff well and has a weak arm over the opposite any day of the week.

     

     




     

    If Salty had the league average CS%, the opps would have about 8 less SBs.

    Also, we still have a poor record of holding runners close to the base, and most SBs are "on the pitcher".

    moon, why do some people discuss improving areas every year but tend to disregaurd and defend our mediocre catching position?  If there is a weakness we should improve any area we can.   

     

     




     

    Of course we could improve the catching position, but we do have some very nice prospects in Lava and Swihart, so regardless of what one thinks of Salty, the catching position both now and going forward is not our biggest weakness by a long shot.

    It is my opinion that a team best improves by addressing the weakest links first. Secondly, I don't see our catching position as a weakness at all. I also think as a whole, our catching future is better than most teams have. Salty's .770 OPS is better than 24 MLb team catching OPS. His defense may be below average at this time, but no doubt, it is improving and should continue to do so. His handling of the staff has also improved greatly from April 25th of 2012.

    Our biggest weaknesses are:

    1) Top of rotation starting pitcher.

    2) A solid 3-4 slot starter. (Or, we could get two 2-slot starters)

    3) A solid RH'd bat to hit clean-up or maybe 3rd vs LHPs.

    4) RF

    5) LF 

    6) 1B

    7) DH

    8) SS (in the near future anyways)

    9) CF after 2013

    10) Bull pen

    11) Catcher

    The only slots we look OK in now are 3B, 2B, and 3 slot SP, 4 slot SP, and 4 Relief pitchers (Bailey, Breslow, Aceves, & Mortensen/Miller).

    We have several prospects looking to make their mark, but counting on 5-6 of them to do very well over the next 2-3 years is a huge gamble.

    I'd love to have a top MLB catcher on our team, but it is far away from my top priority of improving this team. I actually think our catching depth is a strength we may use, via trade, to help improve a more needy area.

    7)

    6)

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    I'm not sure where you get those stats but I can think of a lot more games than that where Tek cost us games by giving up four or five steals. Salty blocks balls better than his last few years period but really hasn't improved anything else significantly enough to call him a solid starting catcher since arriving in the majors. His only real offensive strength is SLG percentage against RHP and the fact he has been a good team player so do you feel he is what we need?

    My point is for someone to make any other arguement, or try and sugar coat Salty's stats is silly. Some Sox fans are so used to mediocrity at the catching position they just don't see the problem and how it effects the team overall.

    The stats that I used are the stolen base runs (rSB) stats from Fangraphs.  This stat does not tell you how many runs overall a catcher saved or cost his team, but how many runs above or below the average catcherany catcher saved or cost his team.

    In other words, in a game where you saw Varitek give 4 or 5 stolen bases, it is quite possible that the average catcher would have given up all 4 or 5 of those stolen bases as well.   So, having someone like Shoppach in that game instead of Varitek probably wouldn't have made a difference to the outcome of the game.  A catcher like Laird that year might have prevented one of those stolen bases but still might not have made a difference in the outcome of the game.  Like I said before, someone with speed is going to be able to steal regardless of who the catcher is.

    I happen to agree with you that Salty is not a good defensive catcher, and have argued that point in the other Salty thread.  I personally consider him to still be slightly below average overall defensively.  That said, as Moon has pointed out, he is still young as far as catcher development goes, he is improving, he has a very strong work ethic, and there are other positions of need that are more dire than our catching position, so I have no problem with Salty being our primary catcher next year. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

     ....so I have no problem with Salty being our primary catcher next year.

     

    Especially since we aren't going anywhere next year anyways, have 2 nice catching propsects in the wings, and have 1 more season to see if Salty continues improving on his defense.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    The catching position is the hardest one to improve on. If a team has an AS catcher. Posey/Y.Molina/McCann/Weiters, they are NOT parting ways with them.

    Our catching situation is improving. is salty a great defender? No, but he has noticably gotten better since his arrival in Boston. As far as cs% goes...its more about the pitcher IMO. Salty has one arb year left and is not a liability behind the plate. We should have a clearer picture of the catchers position going forward AFTER the 2013 season. Then we can move forward with it.

    catcher is the least of our offseason worries this year.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    How many top catchers have been traded in the history of MLB (not prospects like Varitek, or FAs, etc. but catchers at/near prime)?

    Gary Carter is the only one I can think of...any more?

    I'd bet not, catchers are so hard to find/develop teams simply do not trade them.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Vote for Salty in 2013!

    ....and also exclude mandatory firesales like Rick Ferrell.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share