Wake ERA now at 4.92

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    i bet 791 thinks Lackey is a bonafide No. 4 starter too
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]  Runs per game are trending down, yet Wakes' era continues to rise.
    Posted by attic-dan[/QUOTE]

    I see ups and downs, not just downs the last 8 years...

    4.87              4.76                  5.34
                   4.63                4.58         4.92 
           4.15                4.13                   

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    lol i love how you tracked it up and down
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    It wasn't easy.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

     ...poor Lackey, he's having problems in that SPACIOUS pitcher's park tonight.

    It's a small sample size.

    I thought of some good jokes, but will take the high road.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Re: Game Thread: 8/12/11 Sox vs Mariners

    posted at 8/13/2011 1:40 AM EDT
    www.boston.com/community/persona.html?UID=bba70554b4af8340da255e2e9c7fe5d9&plckUserId=bba70554b4af8340da255e2e9c7fe5d9">
    Posts: 925
    First: 2/1/2011
    Last: 8/13/2011
    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion%3af89e63f6-ed16-49f5-969a-64ea8e2183ac&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion:f89e63f6-ed16-49f5-969a-64ea8e2183acPost:0d49983a-f574-4349-b31c-de00f19097c1">Re: Game Thread: 8/12/11 Sox vs Mariners:
    +29 again, +2 over NYY, magic #43, and Lackey gets the win. He's now 11-8, and "6-0 in his last 7 starts." LOL It's 1:20 a.m. Night all....
    Posted by TheExaminer



    i dont see how lackey or wake are better than miller.
    miller may walk more but allows less hits (in games he starts).
    i dont think any of them are very much above the other (tho wake has one game in 3 hes great for 6 innings, one game in 3 hes bearable 3-5 runs, one game in 3 he gets destroyed).

    after bedard its a crapshoot.

    lackey bases loaded in first 2 innings was it
    10 hits 4 hits with runners in scoring position or 400 ( would love for the sox to just make 300 with risp.
    only caught the 8th and 9th and highlights so far. got in late.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Silly clown. 

    Wake lets up 9.2 H per 9 when he starts: Miller 11.4.

    May I ask what school you went to? 

    East Dimskull U.?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    I went to Harvard, where Obama lead the class discussion. Winning percentage was the key to team winning. Amazing winning percentage with Miller, as opposed to Wakefield.

    Hey dimwit, how much will the Yankees offer the great Tim Wastefield?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    The Wake story/saga ends with Softy being humiliated and proven factually wrong on the topic as far as his opinions are concerned w/ Wake. Facts don't lie only he does. He was/is wrong.

    Then he tells us he went to Harvard and is worth 200 million...

    winner! hahaha
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Lackey is a winner! The guy is probably the hottest pitcher in MLB right now, 6 wins in his last 7 starts...*wow*

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    I don't know how to explain last night's win more than this....3 home runs...I've been preaching the road home runs = victories tour for a long time....Juggernaut? Strong word, how bout optimal offense? Everything about last night's win pointed to the offense and best MLB bullpen doing its job last night. The starting pitcher had a 2.00 WHIP and held a weak hitting team to 4 runs over 6 IP, but he also had allowed 9 baserunners before he recorded 9 outs...and that's not very good in any park. Small sample size or not, this was to me, an example of the offense being the predominant reason of victory. And I think harness picked a great game to go to as a fan....big homers, comeback, great relief...fun game.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Lackey will end up the team's wins leader..I predict it, and he may never have to throw another "gem" to do it.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    The starting pitcher had a 2.00 WHIP and held a weak hitting team to 4 runs over 6 IP, but he also had allowed 9 baserunners before he recorded 9 outs...and that's not very good in any park..

    Small sample size, yes, but don't forget the 2 wild pitches.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]Lackey will end up the team's wins leader..I predict it, and he may never have to throw another "gem" to do it.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Lackey is lucking into a lot of wins, no question.  His luck might run out at any time.

    Happens on other teams too.  Just looking at the Orioles numbers, Guthrie is 5-15 with a 4.38 ERA, and Arrieta is 10-8 with a 5.05 ERA.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92 : Lackey is lucking into a lot of wins, no question.  His luck might run out at any time. Happens on other teams too.  Just looking at the Orioles numbers, Guthrie is 5-15 with a 4.38 ERA, and Arrieta is 10-8 with a 5.05 ERA.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    That's why a pitcher's W-L record should be way down on the list of skillset measurements (even below team record in GSs).

    Look at some of Wake's 2008 season:
    ER/dec/team w-l
    3   ND  L
    2   ND  W
    3   ND  L
    3   L     L
    3   ND  W
    1   L      L  (8 IP)
    2   ND   L
    2   ND   W
    3   L      L
    1   L      L  (7 IP)
    4   L      L  (7 IP)
    0   ND  W 
    3   L     L
    0   ND  W

    Wake had one in season stretch of 9 straight Quality Starts with 4 games of 0-1 ER, 3 with 2 ERs, and 2 with 3 ERs (both with about 7 IP). In that stretch he was 3-3 with 3 NDs!

    So many fans bashed Wake for his 10-11 record that year, even though he was 5th in the AL in WHIP!
      

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    moon, exactly and it's why when Felix was handed the Cy Young with 13 wins few balked at it. It was a back-door slider by the media and a strikeout to all the fans who still think win-loss record for a SP is a prime statistic. It was when guys completed their games, but not anymore.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    How does your typical starting pitcher today who throws at best 7 IP control their own destiny? Answer, they can't. Bottom line is the CG pitchers did control their own destiny (at least from a pitching end). They still could not control what their offense did for them. I didn't realize how important it was for a SP to complete games to earn wins until the last few seasons of Roger Clemens in Boston. With a better closer and even setup guys, say Bard/Papelbon, my guess is Rocket could have finished his Sox career with 18-win seasons not 13.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    The difference between a guy going 10-11 and 17-8 can be as much to do with a team's bullpen combined with a team's lack of run support.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Bert Blyleven and Jack Morris were two guys who would have been greatly hurt by pitch counts and specialized bullpens over the entire course of their careers. No way do they even approach the number of wins without being CG type guys.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]How does your typical starting pitcher today who throws at best 7 IP control their own destiny? Answer, they can't. Bottom line is the CG pitchers did control their own destiny (at least from a pitching end). They still could not control what their offense did for them. I didn't realize how important it was for a SP to complete games to earn wins until the last few seasons of Roger Clemens in Boston. With a better closer and even setup guys, say Bard/Papelbon, my guess is Rocket could have finished his Sox career with 18-win seasons not 13.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I disagree. If Clemens had began juicing in 1993, he'd have 18+ wins those last 4 years. Clemens averaged just 10 wins his last 4 seasons here. He didn't deserve much better. 

    1) He went from leading the league in ERA for 3 straight years to:
    1993: 4.46
    1994: 2.85 (Yes, a hard luck year)
    1995: 4.18
    1996: 3.63

    2) His WHIP went from a league leading 1.074 in 1992 to:
    1993: 1.263
    1994: 1.143
    1995: 1.436
    1996: 1.327

    3) In 1993, he had...
    a no decision in a 9IP 2ER game (not the pen's fault)
    a loss in a 2ER/ 8 IP game (3-1: not the pen's fault)
    a 4-2 loss in a 7 IP 4 ER game
    3 losses in games he let up 5, 6 and 7 ERs in 5 IP 
    then a ND in a team 5-4 loss in 7 IP 4 ER (Roger left tied so did not lose a win)
    a loss in 6ER/2IP
    a no dec. in 7.2 IP  1 ER (lost 3-2) Roger left winning 2-1: Pen blew it.
    a loss in 7.1 IP (13 H+BB) 4 ER (lost 4-0)
    a loss in 4 IP/5ER
    a loss in 6 IP/5ER
    a loss in 3.2 IP/6ER
    a ND in 6IP/4ER (lost 10-5)
    a loss in 6.2 IP/6ER
    a loss in 7 IP/5ER
    a WIN with 5 IP/5 ER
    a loss in 6IP/3ER (5-0)
    I only see one pen blown win this season.

    I think the Sox had weaker hitting those years and horrible defense.

    I agree, the pen was not great back then, especially compard to now, but I think the offense of today could have added several wins to Roger's totals those years (and the better D).
    Our pen back then was:
    1993:
    Jeff Russell  2.70/1.136 (33 saves)
    Quantrill  3.91/1.413
    G. Harris 3.77/1.380 (8 saves)
    Ken Ryan 3.60/1.440
    Bankhead 3.50/1.368
    1994:
    K. Ryan  2.44/1.313 (13 saves)
    Russell  5.14/1.536 (12 saves)
    Harris   8.28/1.818
    Chris Howard, Tony Fossas, Bankhead, VanEgmond
    1995: 
    Aguilera  2.67/1.088 (20 sv)
    Belinda   3.10/1.134 (10 sv)
    K. Ryan   4.96/1.776 (7 sv)
    Maddux  3.91/1.126
    Cormier, Eshelman,Hudson, Sele
    1996:
    Slocumb  3.02/1.476 (31 svs)
    M. Stanton 3.83/1.438
    Rich Garces 4.91/1.705
    Maddux, Moyer, Eshelman, Hudson, Belinda
    Team Reliever WHIP in 1996 was 1.702...that is horrible!
    In 1996, the Sox lost Roger's first 6 games. He let up 2 ERs in 4 of them. The pen did let up several runs after Roger left in many of those first starts.

      
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    to be fair, my memory obviously centered on 1996, but it just seemed like the Rocket had a number of things not go his way, preventing him from winning games. In 86, it seemed like every time he threw, the Sox scored runs and he pitched great too.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Offense was putrid, but my point is still valid regarding most SPs in terms of not controlling one's destiny. I just used a poor example.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Expect a big FA bidding war for Tim Wakefield and Jason Varitek.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]Expect a big FA bidding war for Tim Wakefield and Jason Varitek.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    You are such a tool!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    harvey!!!
     
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