Wake ERA now at 4.92

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Expect a big bidding war over Alex Gonzalez, Bill Hall, Oki, and Cam.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]Expect a big bidding war over Alex Gonzalez, Bill Hall, Oki, and Cam.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Don't forget Drew, Coco and Lugo, plus all those great defensive catchers and minor league starters that we passed over for the 'trash' he spews hate at
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Wakefield and Varitek are hot FA values, which is why the Red Sox find it so easy to resign them.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    14 AL Teams x 6 top starters by IP from 2008-2011 (250+ IP+):

    WHIP:
    12) Beckett  1.21
    15) Lester    1.24
    30) Wake      1.30 (Ages 41-45)
    45) Lackey   1.36 (Including '08-'09 with LAA)
    47) Buch.      1.36
    65) Dice-K     1.43

    If 1-14 are #1 slotted pitchers and #15-28 are #2's, then Wake at #30 means he has pitched like a top 2 thirds starter in the AL since 2008 by the WHIP indicator.

    tERA
    10) Lester    3.47
    33) Beckett 4.20
    39) Buch      4.38
    45) Lackey  4.51
    48) Dice-K   4.57
    54) Wake     4.63 (just 0.02 from 50th place)

    By tERA, Wake ranks as a bottom 4th AL starter from 2008-2011.

    Put these two together and it looks like Wake has pitched like a bottom tier 3rd starter as compared to all AL starters with over 250 IP.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92 : And he gave up 46 the year after, but 1987 was definitely a hitters year.  Giving up home runs isn't necessarily a bad thing provided your other peripherals are good. Flyball pitchers like Blyleven or Johan Santana will typically give up more home runs than those who don't.  Plus, the Metrodome was nicknamed the Homer Dome at the time for obvious reasons.
    Posted by redsoxfan791[/QUOTE]

    This is why I don't put much value on FIP.

    Also, site adjusted ERA numbers for venue also miss the mark more often than not.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]I don't know how to explain last night's win more than this....3 home runs...I've been preaching the road home runs = victories tour for a long time....Juggernaut? Strong word, how bout optimal offense? Everything about last night's win pointed to the offense and best MLB bullpen doing its job last night. The starting pitcher had a 2.00 WHIP and held a weak hitting team to 4 runs over 6 IP, but he also had allowed 9 baserunners before he recorded 9 outs...and that's not very good in any park. Small sample size or not, this was to me, an example of the offense being the predominant reason of victory. And I think harness picked a great game to go to as a fan....big homers, comeback, great relief...fun game.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    What amazed me was Lackey's staying power, and how he did it with little going for him. Smoak leaving the game on a brutal ball-to-the-face was key, as he didn't really didn't have to give in to Ackerly after that. The Morales/Ackley AB was pivotal.

    Thought about you when each dinger evaded leather  Cool
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]Bert Blyleven and Jack Morris were two guys who would have been greatly hurt by pitch counts and specialized bullpens over the entire course of their careers. No way do they even approach the number of wins without being CG type guys.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Not really. In today's game, the CG is simply shortened. Look at team W/L records when leading after the 7th frame.
    The movement toward specialization saves arms and wins.

    BTW: Blyleven has great control, so pitch count wouldn't be a huge factor with him.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92 : Not really. In today's game, the CG is simply shortened. Look at team W/L records when leading after the 7th frame. The movement toward specialization saves arms and wins . BTW: Blyleven has great control, so pitch count wouldn't be a huge factor with him.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    How many starters make it to the seventh? Sorry, I don't buy the virtual complete game. A complete game is a complete game.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92 : How many starters make it to the seventh? Sorry, I don't buy the virtual complete game. A complete game is a complete game.
    Posted by devildavid[/QUOTE]

    It's not a matter of making it to the seventh inning.  It is about pitching effectively in the innings you pitch.  If you pitch 5 or 6 innings while limiting the hits/runs great "you have done your job" and deserve the victory.  If you put your team behind early and often, or can't hold a lead?

    You failed!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    His ERA is now 4.90!!!

    hehehe
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Wake's 17 starts:

                       IP  H  ER BB (comments)

    1) vs Sea  5.2  3  1  1  

    (left with 2 outs and man on 1st: Jenks allowed his runner to score plus 1 more and Wake gets no decision: Sox win anyways)

     

    2) vs Min  4.1  9  6  4 (started 5 days earlier/pitched relief 2 days before)

    (scored 2 runs on BB, IF hit, GB single and Balk, later 2 inherited Wake runs are allowed by Aceves.)

     

    3) vs Cubs  6  7  4  1

     (shut out through 6.2, then two dbls = 1 run)

     

    4) @ Det   7  5  2  2

     (1 run scores on seeing eye GB single, SB and another seeing eye GB single.)

     

    5) vs CWS  6  7  4  1

     (shut out through 4.2, then BB, bloop single, SB, Groundout to SS, Gb double down 3B line that could have been fielded by Youk-2 runs)

     

    6) @ NYY   5.1  5  5  3

     (Shutout through 4 IP, then 3 runs on BB, PB, 1B, 2B, GB -man to 3rd-Sac Fly, then in 6th 2 outs and BB, and Aceves comes in and allows his run to score.)

     

    7) @ TB     7   4  1  5

     (Shut out for 4.1 IP then HR, in 6th BB, PB, BB, GB runners advance and Passed Ball allows run to score.)

     

    8) vs Mil   8   3 2  1

     (2-runo HR in 2nd + solo HR in 7th: no bad luck)

     

    9) @ Pitt   6   7  5  4

     (shut out for 4.1 IP, and 1B, SB, BB, HR- 2 runs, 2B, GB single for 1 runs, 4th 1 run scores on cheap single to 3B -Youk muffs it, and a 2B to CF that Ellsbury misjudged-could have been caught, then a GB to 2B.)

     

    10) @ Hou  5.1  11  5  0

     (1st inning: 1B, SB, GB runner to 3B, Sac Fly,  2nd: 2 runs scored on 2B, 1B, bunt 1B to 3B, and 2B, in the 5th: GB single, WP, 2B)

     

    11) vs Tor    7    9  3  1

     (3rd inning: swinging bunt single, 1B, GB runners advance, Sac Fly, long 1B)

     

    12) @ Bal    4.2  9  3  2

     (1st: 2 outs then weak 1B to 3B, hard 1B, then 3B for 2 runs. 5th: 2 Ks, HR, HR, 1B, bloop 1B-could have been caught, BB, 2B clears bases)

     

    13) vs Sea  6.1  10  7  1

     (1st: HBP & HR, 5th: K, BB, seeing eye GB 1B, 2B scores 1, Wake enters the 7th ahead 11-3. ***He could have been relieved***, but he stays in and allows: 4 runs on 3 singles and HR)

     

    14) @ CWS  7.0  3  3  2

     (Shutout through 5.1 innings, then bunt single to 3B, Bunt runner to 2B, WP, Sac Fly. 7th inning: BB and HR for 2 runs).

     

    15) vs Cleve  6.2  5  3  2

     (Shutout through 3IP, then HR, ground ball single, Ground ball 2B, ...2 runs, then in the 7th: 2B, Ground out, WP, K, 2B for 1 run)

     

    16) @ MN  7 IP  8H  3 ER  0BB

     (2nd inning: 2B, single, 2 groundouts-runner to 3B, PB run scores- 2 ERs. HR in 4th, 6th inning: hard single and deep 2B for 1 run). Wake leaves with a run run lead-Aceves lets up a run and Wake does not get the win.)

     

    17)  @ Sea  8  9   4  2

      (Shutout for 2 IP, then BB on fullcount (squeezed), SB, Salty error, IF hit to SS (run), single, FC & error by Lowrie SS, then Sac Fly (run), BB, single (run) . 5th inning: IF single to SS, single, single (run). 7th: Solo HR.)

     

    Totals:

    4 ERs on bullpen allowing inherited runners to score.

    4 ERs allowed after Tito left him in (too long) in an 11-3 game (7th inn)-3 singles and HR.

    20 out of 59 total ERs allowed as a starter scored on

      IF hits,  bloop hits, or misjudged fly balls that fell for “hits”

      Muffed balls counted as hits

      Runners advancing on GBs then Sac flies

    28/59 ERs allowed were a bit shaky or “cheap”. I know all pitcher have some bad luck, but I doubt any pitcher has this percent of cheap runs allowed this year.

    Even if you just take away about one third of the cheap runs, it’s pretty easy to figure Wake’s ER as a starter could be closer to 3.00 to 4.00 instead of about 4.90.

     

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    poor guy has been great as a starter and only has 6 wins to show for it
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    The team is 11-6 in his starts.
    He's pitched better than his ERA indicates.
    His WHIP is very good.
     
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    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92 : How many starters make it to the seventh? Sorry, I don't buy the virtual complete game. A complete game is a complete game.
    Posted by devildavid[/QUOTE]

    It's not a virtual CG. We have been in an era where hitting has compromised pitching to a greater degree due to hitting friendly parks and juicing, among other reasons.
    Pitchers pitching in the 1960's/70's would find the same limitations today as does a Beckett or a Lester. It doesn't make Jon/Josh lesser pitchers.
    Just dealing with different challenges.

    Pitching is still the predominant factor, but not like it once was.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Wake's last 7 starts have been pretty decent. He is 2-2 in that stretch, but the team is 5-2.

    7 IP 3 ER (10 BB+H)
    4.2  3 ER (11 BB+H)
    6.1  10 ER (11)
    7.0  3 ER  (5)
    6.2  3 ER  (7)
    7.0  3 ER  (8)
    8.0  4 ER  (11)    

    Red= Decent+
    Blue= Bad
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    List the runs scored, just so readers aren't mislead.

    It was about the team winning when Wakefield started. Now it's about ER over a few starts, ignoring season long and last 2 plus years.

    Clearly, Moonslo loves Wakefield and has to pretend to not like him. Such is the life of a dimwit.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    Ignoring season long? 

    I just printed a game by game rundown of every start Wake has had this season. I have also listed his game by game stats from 2010, 2009, and 2008. I have not neglected to show Wake is near the bottom in ERA from 2010-2011 and other cherry-picked sample sizes you choose.

    You didn't seem to care about runs scored for Wake in 2008. You bashed him after that wondeful pitched season as much as now.

    I have been very consistent with my chosen stats and criteria. I don't change the measuring stick everyday like you do. Before Wake even had a nice WHIP, I always valued that stat above ERA. (So, did you at one time, until Wake started making you look silly by lowering his WHIP after you called for his retirement over 3 years ago.) I value QS%, tERA, ERA, near QSs, team winning %, and more. I use the same stats to judge every pitcher. You choose W-L% for Miller, 2 game sample sizes for Oki, ERA for Bedard, highly arbitrary time frame sample sizes for Wake, and often choose a stat like BB/9 to bash Wake with without even bothering to look and see that he has the best BB/9 ratio from mid 2009 to 2011 (your chosen bash Wake time term) than any other starter on this team.

    Distort, Delude, Deny.

    You are a 3-D Clown.

    FYI:
    runs scored in support of pitchers in their starts: 

    Wake: (avg.  6.06)
    0,1,2,3,3,4,4,4,5,6,6,7,8,11,12,12,15

    Miller: (8.61)
    4,4,5,6,10,10,13,14 (and you praise his 7-1 team record)

    Aceves (7.20)
    3,4,7,14

    Lackey: (6.26)
    0,0,0,1,1,3,4,5,6,6,6,7,7,7,9,9,10,10,12,16

    Lester: (5.54)
    0,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,3,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,7,8,10,14,14,15 

    Beckett (3.46)
    0,0,1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,6,8,9,10
      (WOW! what a differential from all the other starters.)
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    To quote Mac:

    Answer the question, jerk!

    List runs scored for each start, on Wakefield.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from -theyazzer-. Show -theyazzer-'s posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]Let's see, 791 says Wakefield is "not an optimal starter" and is "below average." Well, once again, I state what the hell more do you want out of a starter, any starter, than 20 baserunners (16 hits, 4 BB) in 21 IP or less than 1 batter reaching base per 3 outs recorded. If you think you can find better starting pitching than that, I'll eat a Tim Wakefield rookie card. Should we get alarmed that Lester allowed 13 baserunners in just his last start? I love how these "bloggers" clog the Internet with ridiculous statements that indicate their ignorance about baseball in general. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    can you still smell gum on WAKE'S rookie card?
    i ask because i'd heard that the smell goes away after 50 years.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    ...and you wonder why you are called a silly clown. I not only posted all the runs scored for Wake's starts, but I posted all starters' numbers as well. Try reading comprehension before you spew venom.

    It's in the post just above yours.

    Here it is again for your lazy eyes...

    Runs scored in Wake starts...
    0,1,2,3,3,4,4,4,5,6,6,7,8,11,12,12,15

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    In Response to Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92:
    [QUOTE]...and you wonder why you are called a silly clown. I not only posted all the runs scored for Wake's starts, but I posted all starters' numbers as well. Try reading comprehension before you spew venom. It's in the post just above yours. Here it is again for your lazy eyes... Runs scored in Wake starts... 0,1,2,3,3,4,4,4,5,6,6,7,8,11,12,12,15
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    The humiliations continue as scholor Moon shows definitite proof using stats and reality and Softy the pretender ignores 90% of the evidence (prob b/c he doesn't have a clue what it all means) to harp on the same things pointlessly even tho he has already been proven wrong.

    There is nothing left for him to say except extend the slimy vendetta everyone can see is bizarre, petty and filled with anger. His attacks are those of a teenager.

    He has LOST 100% on the Wake issue... guy is a great bargain and has been beyond competant as a #5-6 starter, there would be no better option in-season, compliment what he is doing, be a real fan and get over it.

    Oh wait, he is not a fan, just a ranting loser here to demean and hurt others... haha, sorry forget that for a second.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Wake ERA now at 4.92

    The humiliations continue as scholor

    Dont' forget to wipe the drivel around the tube in your mouth.
     
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