Wakefield and Varitek

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Wakefield and Varitek

    My feelings are...
     
    1-lets bring back Wakefield.....NOT as a starter (unless we have a ton of injuries)....when his knuckleball is on he is unhittable....when it's not on he is ineffective....so use him as an early to middle inning guy when we are behind....he is a proven "innings eater"....with our projected offense he could keep us in games we could eventually win.....otherwise he keeps the rest of the bullpen on the bench...and the arms are rested...

    2-Varitek is a great guy to have on the bench and in the clubhouse.....give him a very limited role and groom his as a future coach.....I love the guy...

    I don't see any downside to this...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    In Response to Wakefield and Varitek:
    [QUOTE]My feelings are...   1-lets bring back Wakefield.....NOT as a starter (unless we have a ton of injuries)....when his knuckleball is on he is unhittable....when it's not on he is ineffective....so use him as an early to middle inning guy when we are behind....he is a proven "innings eater"....with our projected offense he could keep us in games we could eventually win.....otherwise he keeps the rest of the bullpen on the bench...and the arms are rested... 2-Varitek is a great guy to have on the bench and in the clubhouse.....give him a very limited role and groom his as a future coach.....I love the guy... I don't see any downside to this...
    Posted by Duke4[/QUOTE]Other than the roster spots that could be better utilized elsewhere?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    If only because of the Sox history with injured starting arms, Wakefield should be re-signed. I agree. Varitek? Not as important unless they can't find another veteran who can play some 60-70 games.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    Wakefield should not be re-signed. He had a declining horrible season.  He has had a wonderful career, way beyond what could be expected. Go away gracefully and plan for a wonderful post career as an ex red sock who helped win two titles. Goodbye Tim.

    Tek has also had a great career but what does he bring to the team.  He should not be allowed to catch Beckett or for that matter any other pitcher. Get a catcher that can hit and offer something more than game management. Two forty year old players do not belong on this troubled fat team. Clean house.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sapper1. Show sapper1's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

     Let them go...gracefully with respect,but they can hang around the phone if they wish. Many thanks to both of them!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    These two relics need to go.  We must start fresh and you can't have a 40 year old who can't throw anybody out, stops hitting after June and provided no leadership on the team this past season when there was all sorts of trouble in the clubhouse.  As for Wakefield, are you kidding?  The guy is now a human pinata getting hammered every time he goes out there, and on the mound he can't even move on come backers or bunts.  Give them gold watches and send them away....PLEASE!!!!!!  I would bet no other team would sign either one of these over the hill bums.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    In Response to Wakefield and Varitek:
    [QUOTE]My feelings are...   1-lets bring back Wakefield.....NOT as a starter (unless we have a ton of injuries)....when his knuckleball is on he is unhittable....when it's not on he is ineffective....so use him as an early to middle inning guy when we are behind....he is a proven "innings eater"....with our projected offense he could keep us in games we could eventually win.....otherwise he keeps the rest of the bullpen on the bench...and the arms are rested... 2-Varitek is a great guy to have on the bench and in the clubhouse.....give him a very limited role and groom his as a future coach.....I love the guy... I don't see any downside to this...
    Posted by Duke4[/QUOTE]

    groom him to coach? ROFL



     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    Tim Wakefield could still be useful as 4A organizational pitching depth and DL fodder. I would offer him a two-way minor league deal. That's all he deserves at this point in his career. He should be given an equal opportunity to win the fifth, sixth, or seventh spot out of the bullpen. What he does now should take precedent over what he performed in the past. Do not let loyalty reserve a role for him. He really has to earn it this time. He needs to understand this before he agrees to return. I would not be crushed if he opted to sign elsewhere instead.

    Jason Varitek should not be brought back to Boston under any capacity. Ryan Lavarnway needs the at-bats at catcher and Varitek's fraudulent "captaincy" was clearly in name only. He allowed the team to collapse last year and exhibited no discernible leadership whatsoever. Even ignoring his lack of contribution on the field, his failure to provide stewardship off of it should end his playing career in Boston. He cannot be a part of this team going forward, given his apathy and clubhouse delinquency. When you assume the responsibilities of a captain, you have to act like one. Joe Thornton was traded away from the Bruins for the same reason and Thornton is five times the hockey player that Varitek is/was a baseball player.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    Wakefield is terrible, he is not useful. Call him in the season if you need him. No reason whatsoever to have him anywhere near Ft. Myers in February.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    Wakefield is terrible, he is not useful. Call him in the season if you need him. No reason whatsoever to have him anywhere near Ft. Myers in February.

    The opposite seems to hold true. He's decent, even good, in the first half and fades fast after the All-Star break.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    There were at least 50 MLB starters who had a significant amount of games started for their teams with equal or worse numbers than Wake last year.

    VTek's OPS was better than all but about 8 MLB team catcher OPS in 2011. He also caught more innings than all but 2 MLB back-up catchers.
     

    They are certainly not the best options for 2012, but at a low cost, we could do much worse.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    Moon, maybe after this record collapse, it is time to re-tool the roster and get younger???? I know you cant measure that with stats but just imagine it...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    We have to do better than these two....really. It is time for both to retire. Thanks for the memories, but as always ends up being the case....youth must be served.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    In Response to Re: Wakefield and Varitek:
    [QUOTE]We have to do better than these two....really. It is time for both to retire. Thanks for the memories, but as always ends up being the case....youth must be served.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor[/QUOTE]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYVakOQzd6A
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    Moon, maybe after this record collapse, it is time to re-tool the roster and get younger???? I know you cant measure that with stats but just imagine it...(Geo)

    We have to do better than these two....really. It is time for both to retire. Thanks for the memories, but as always ends up being the case....youth must be served.(sind)

    These statements have some serious flaws:
    1) Our back-up catcher, who had the 16th best OPS among catchers with 250+ PAs in 2011 was not a reason we lost in 2011. In fact, he was an overall net gain when compared to other MLB back-up catchers. We won way more games when VTek caught and barely played .500 ball when others caught.
    2) Our 6/7th starter, who led the team to a winning record, was not a reason we lost in 2011. In fact he was a net positive when compared to other MLB teams' 6th and 7th starters (and ven many 3, 4, and 5 starters!).
    3) This "holding back the youth" argument is all well and good on paper, but look at the reality of this team's roster. We had no MLB ready prospects at catcher and starting pitcher last year. Lavarnway is still a DH trying to learn how to catch quickly. Doubront was hurt almost all year, Miller was awful, Weiland was worse, and we even had our 4/5th starter (Lackey) do worse than Wake.
    4) "Retool the roster" is easier said than done. We have about $8M to spend on filling 2 starter slots, the closer or set-up spot, DH, RF, and more. I hope you are not saying we should spend some of those few dollars on finding a FA catcher. Maybe you feel Lavarnway is ready to catch in the bigs. Maybe he is. It's a huge gamble with a staff as expensive as this one is, and a staff that will have some new faces trying hard to help. Say what you want about Beckett needing his "binky", but facts are facts: he and others do way way way better when VTek is their catcher.
    5) There are other options out there besides Vtek and Wake. Personally, I think if Papi walks, Vtek is the best low cost option to be our back-up catcher in 2012 with Lava being the near FT DH and 3rd catcher. If Papi stays, we can't afford a 3rd catcher due to flexibility issues, and we'll have to pray that Salty and Lava learn real quick. Personally, I think Wake would be a nice choice as our 5/6/7 starter at $1-1.5M. I'd be happy with other choices as well, but they may cost more, and our budget is tight.

    I'm all for going younger, but going young at catcher is not always a good idea. Going young at 6th starter is not always a good idea either, because young starters need steady work to build up experience. Spot starting and long relief is normally not helpful. I also have close to zero confidence in Doubront or Weiland to be successful in 2012. I think Tazawa might help, but it's risky to count on those 3 to fill 2 big slots.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    Just IMHO,

    If we keep Tek, which is okay, it should be with the understanding that we'll promote Lavarnway at the ASB and Tek moves to a coaching role.  Giving Lavarnway another 50-60 games in AAA to sharpen his catching skills is not a bad idea, should reset his clock for another year, and Tek is usually one of the best catchers in BB for the first couple of months.

    Wake is an ideal #7.  I just can't see him as a #6 in the BP.  He's okay for an emergency start, but adds nothing as a BP arm.  We're out of options with Doubront.  I'd make him our #6 and roll the dice.  I'd offer Wake a nice minor league deal, but that's about it.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    Time to turn the page.     It's a new era and the team needs to get younger.    Sentimentality doesn't win ballgames.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    In Response to Re: Wakefield and Varitek:
    [QUOTE]Time to turn the page.     It's a new era and the team needs to get younger.    Sentimentality doesn't win ballgames.
    Posted by OnDeckCircle[/QUOTE]

    It's never a matter of sentiment, and almost always a matter of who replaces them.  Most of these threads are all for getting rid of people, but not always how you will replace them.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    They are certainly not the best options for 2012, but at a low cost, we could do much worse.

    Wastefield and Varitek market is a minor league contract. Ortiz is the only old veteran who 2011 performance earned a market offer.

    Lavarnway and Salty is not much worse than Variek. In fact, it is way better. Time and money in Varitek is a total loss, in Lavarnway it is a total gain.

    Red Sox need to make an early 3 to 4M offer option 2 3/4 player opt out/team buyout 2M  for Hernandez, as he is a modified Type B (Reds automatically getting sup/sandwich pick) and will not cost the Red Sox a draft pick. If market is higher than 5 or 6 guranteed over 2 years, go with Lavarnway and salty. Hernandez for 1 year would be a true upgrade over Salty 2011, who was not starter MLB material (terrible defender and not enough offset as top tier hitter)

    Under no circumstances should 40 year old country clubber Varitek be offered a MLB FA contract. Despite just 53 games average over 2 seasons, this non-producing entitlement lifer has been unable to finish either of the last 2 seasons where he goes into auto-out late season mode. He is a PB clumsy hands of stone, and did nothing to earn a market FA contract offer.
     
    Wastefield was a major part of the 2011 record collapse. His tipping his cap after a grand slam (for some career innings team mile stone) was the face of a GM who handed out almost 4 million to Wastefied and 2 million to Varitek. The ceremonial tour to 200 wins for Wastefield was embarrassing to the competitive integrity of baseball. It distracted players and became one continuous losing streak fiasco (Pedroia said they wanted to get it for Wastefield badly)

    Wastefield has a 5 plus ERA that spans back to 2009. He is completely useless in pen (Runners on base), and totally ineffecive as a starter over last 2.5 years.
    The cowards trying to lobby for Wastefield, including his agent and 15 wins somewhere and promise of retirement if gifted another millions contract, refuse to admit that the only reason they want to see the paunched 45 year old comedy old timer's day act is the total team wins record. Why not bring Yaz back to add to his total hits!    

    (Inesptein claimed this might be final tour for these free loading vets as if that was a valid basis for the 6 million spent)

    Very important to award every roster spot and FA contract on the basis of performance. Post 2011, at no time in Red Sox modern history is it more important to put an end to the practice of ceremonial tour faces. Varitek and Wastefied need to be offered a retirement ceremony, not FA contracts.   
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    In Response to Wakefield and Varitek:
    [QUOTE]My feelings are...   1-lets bring back Wakefield.....NOT as a starter (unless we have a ton of injuries)....when his knuckleball is on he is unhittable....when it's not on he is ineffective....so use him as an early to middle inning guy when we are behind....he is a proven "innings eater"....with our projected offense he could keep us in games we could eventually win.....otherwise he keeps the rest of the bullpen on the bench...and the arms are rested... 2-Varitek is a great guy to have on the bench and in the clubhouse.....give him a very limited role and groom his as a future coach.....I love the guy... I don't see any downside to this...
    Posted by Duke4[/QUOTE]
       No, no a thousand times no. I don't see any up-side to keeping them. They both wear down as the year goes on, and the Sox end up being stuck with them taking up two roster spots. They have to find better options than bringing these two back.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    In Response to Re: Wakefield and Varitek:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Wakefield and Varitek : Other than the roster spots that could be better utilized elsewhere?
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    At this point I'd like to see Wake move on or retire. He pitches well during the year at times but when he doesn't pitch well you know he will get blasted and we most likely lose. I'd rather see the roster spot go torward a young player coming up or for long reliever so Aceves can be used in the 4-5 slot in the rotation. If we need someone to eat innings and give up a ton of runs Lackey is good at both.

    As for V-Tek, his spot on the roster should go to a player who can produce whether a young player coming up or a spot for a veteran from free agency or trade. I would be all in favor of the Sox offering him a coaching spot with the possibility of his being groomed for the manager's job if he proves worthy. 

    Hetchinspete.   
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    The cowards trying to lobby for Wastefield, including his agent and 15 wins somewhere and promise of retirement if gifted another millions contract, refuse to admit that the only reason they want to see the paunched 45 year old comedy old timer's day act is the total team wins record. 


    The agent's job is to get Wakefield a job.  It has nothing to do with being brave or a coward.  Get psyche help.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    We should bring back 2 guys whos supporters admit that they are only good for half a year. Maybe we should have 2 teams, 1 for one half and 1 for the other.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Wakefield and Varitek

    In Response to Re: Wakefield and Varitek:
    [QUOTE]There were at least 50 MLB starters who had a significant amount of games started for their teams with equal or worse numbers than Wake last year. VTek's OPS was better than all but about 8 MLB team catcher OPS in 2011. He also caught more innings than all but 2 MLB back-up catchers.   They are certainly not the best options for 2012, but at a low cost, we could do much worse.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon,

    Normally I would tend to agree if based on stats and both were in their mid thirties but tokeep both players at 40 years doesn't make sense as in both cases they will both most likely continue to decline in skill and ability to contribute. 

    I did write earlier that I thought V-Tek could be groomed to manage and without knowing exactly what happened at seasons end other than what we were fed by the usual exploitive and negative Boston Globe press, I still say he could be. But only the FO and players really know what went on in the clubhouse. If V-tek could have provided leadership and failed then he doesn't desrve a chance to coach or manage.   
     
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