Wang in Wake out?

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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out? : Major League pitching coaches don't develop pitching. They fine-tune it. Pitchers are developed through the minor league system.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    hank?  The new silly clown?

     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out? : Fair and honest thoughts, the thing I like most about Wang is he is a "ground ball" pitcher when his stuff is good.  This season began to remind Wang what he is capable of.   During his short time this season Wang looked, so good the Nationals are thinking about bringing him back.  I think he could be next years Aceves and really help our cause.  I'm only one fan lost in the middle of millions but hope we at least look at Wang as a possible low risk/high return guy.   Having Aceves and Wang could haunt the Yanks when we need it most.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    The Nats left side of their infield was spades above the Sox, Zimmerman at third and Ian Desmond at SS. To improve the pitching Iggy should be part of the new young Turks.
     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    End of the day the Sox need to sign at least two starters and possibly three (organizational depth). The to-do list, first and foremost is to establish who of our returning starters will toe the rubber next year and will they come to camp ready to compete given all of the drama of the last few weeks?

    Sure bets...
    Lester
    Buccholz
    Not so sure...
    Beckett
    Lackey
    In the mix...
    Wakefield
    Miller
    Aceves
    Organizational depth
    Doubront
    Weiland
    Tazawa
    Ranaundo

    Top free agent 30 start 200 innings sub 4.00 era guys...
    Wilson
    Buerhle
    Jackson
    Kuroda

    Top guys with options...
    Sabathia
    Oswalt
    Demster
    Wainwright

    Proven Vet's 30 start 180 inning sub 4.5 ERA guys
    Harang
    Garcia
    Marquis
    Piniero
    Vasquez

    Projects with upside
    Maine
    Francis
    Perez
    Wang
    Young
    Garland
    Webb

    Trade candidates (2013 FA)
    Blanton
    Danks
    Greinke
    Lewis
    Liriano
    http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/04/potential-free-agents-for-2012.html
    http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/04/potential-free-agents-for-2013.html
     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out? : I'm not "hoping for Wake". I'd rather have a much better pitcher than him, but the reason I keep mentioning him as out 6/7th option is that he is cheaper and more reliable than what else is out there for that slot. No, I do not think Wake "seems more self absorbed in his stats". He made a couple statements about wanting the records. The thing I see about this is that the record he pursues is wins. That's not a personal stat to me. It is what the team wants and needs as well. Him wanting to win does not conflict with the team goal at all. They go hand in hand. To me, Cal Ripken going for the consecutive game streak record was selfish and distracting. He hurt the team several times by playing when he needed rest. Almost everyone (but me) loves Cal and calls him a hero and a warrior. Craze, I have never said Wake has pitched great since his injury in mid-2009. My whole deal defending him is that he has been unfairly bashed for actually doing a pretty good job as our 6/7 starter, especially when you figure in the contract cost. 2011 was a "pitcher's year", yet over 50 pitchers with 10 or more starts had equal or worse numbers than Wake. I'd love to have 5 aces on this team, but the cost of doing that would prohibit having a well paid 6th starter. The amount of time spent on people identifying Wake and our back-up catcher (VTek) as the main problems of this team is just plain insane. They both did what they were supposed to do and more! Compare them to others in their slots and even above their slots and you'll see that they were not the reason we lost, in fact they were pluses.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon, I just believe we need to finally cross over by bringing in hungry, hard working players to replace the Tek and Wake.  Tek hit great the first half of the season like the past couple of years and Salty seemed to follow suit, then both went into the same nose dive.  The elders seem to become complacent which will filter down to guys like Salty.  Also, a guy like Pede should be team captain, not a part time catcher who rarely plays.  Tek doesn't energize the team like Pede could.  

    With Wake, If Tim had come out like "Crawford" and apolozied for the poor outings while trying to reach 200 wins, it may have put him in a different light.  I personally lost a bit of respect for Tim for the way he went about his statements.  I realize we had few choices but to pitch Tim every five days but this happens.  When it does we need more efficiency.  I feel Wang is an inexpensive risk and a ground ball pitcher who "if healthy again" could be in the top three of almost any rotation.



     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    I like Tek and Wake but just think that it is time to cut the ties to these guys and move on.  Surely there is a young pitcher who doesn't require a special catcher to be a 6th or 7th starter available somewhere on the cheap.  I also have a hard time believing that the Sox need to bring back the C on the chest uniform.  As the captain I didn't see much out of him in the way of captaincy.  I doubt there is a single team out there that would sign Wake if the Sox let him go.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    moon,I just believe we need to finally cross over by bringing in hungry, hard working players to replace the Tek and Wake.  Tek hit great for have a season and Salty seemed to follow suit, then both went into the same nose dive. 

    Tek actually hit well/great in June and August. Again, I think you overvalue catcher hitting when most of the league has terrible hitting catchers.

    The elders seem to become complacent which will filter down to guys like Salty.

    I don't buy this. I think VTek and Wake gave 110% every minute of every game and inbetween as well. They both are "gamers".

      Also, a guy like Pede should be team captain, not a part time catcher who rarely plays.  Tek doesn't energize the team like Pede could.  

    I have sais Pedey should be the captain 9if we have one at all) since 2008. I agree.

    With Wake, If Tim had come out like "Crawford" and apolozied for the poor outings while trying to reach 200 wins, it may have put him in a different light.  I personally lost a bit of respect for Tim for the way he went about his statements. 

    He didn't pitch poorly, so there was little need to apologize, besides, I do remember him saying a few times that he could have done better.

    I know most people see me as a "numbers guy", because I often use data to support my position or counter others, but I watch every game and every pitch. I did not think Wake pitched poorly in the vast majority of his games. I saw many cheap infield hits, bunt hits, PBs, sac flies, and misplayed balls that were ruled hits. I even documented every single start of Wakes and showed that he had more uinherited runners allowed to score than any other pitcher on the Sox (and no, it wasn't because he left with bases loaded and no outs, most were allowed after 2 outs). I showed that many of his runs were scored on weakly hit balls not scorched liners like other starters were letting up. I think Wake pitched better than his numbers indicated. I know others disagree and assign 100% blame of all the PBs and WP and unearned runs on Wake, but the fatc is VMart had only a tiny fraction of the misplays that Salty had with Wake. I'm not blaming Salty, but I don't blame Wake either for pitching a strike that was not caught. Several runs were scored after a K and PB allowed a runner to reach 1B. I know all pitchers have their share of 'what ifs", but i think Wake had more than his share. I do not think i am being biased, because quite frankly, I don't really even like Wake. He's maybe my 22nd favorite Sox player.  I just don't understand all the Wake bashing. We went 12-11 with our 7th starter who was pushed beyond what he could handle. If next year's mananger realizes that he shouild be a 120 Ip guy (maybe 8 straight starts early in the year, then another 8 staright later, then he will improve his performance. I think his numbers will improve next year even if he pitches the same as this year, especially if we have a catcher that can catch his hard to hit pitches. 

    I realize we had few choices but to pitch Tim every five days but this happens.  When it does we need more efficiency.  I feel Wang is an inexpensive risk and a ground ball pitcher who "if healthy again" could be in the top three of almost any rotation.

    If I knew he was and would remain 100% healthy, I'd agree 100%:
    Wang /> Wake.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Wang in Wake out?

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    [QUOTE]moon, I just believe we need to finally cross over by bringing in hungry, hard working players to replace the Tek and Wake.  Tek hit great for have a season and Salty seemed to follow suit, then both went into the same nose dive.  Tek actually hit well/great in June and August. Again, I think you overvalue catcher hitting when most of the league has terrible hitting catchers. The elders seem to become complacent which will filter down to guys like Salty. I don't buy this. I think VTek and Wake gave 110% every minute of every game and inbetween as well. They both are "gamers".   Also, a guy like Pede should be team captain, not a part time catcher who rarely plays.  Tek doesn't energize the team like Pede could.   I have sais Pedey should be the captain 9if we have one at all) since 2008. I agree. With Wake, If Tim had come out like "Crawford" and apolozied for the poor outings while trying to reach 200 wins, it may have put him in a different light.  I personally lost a bit of respect for Tim for the way he went about his statements.  He didn't pitch poorly, so there was little need to apologize, besides, I do remember him saying a few times that he could have done better. I know most people see me as a "numbers guy", because I often use data to support my position or counter others, but I watch every game and every pitch. I did not think Wake pitched poorly in the vast majority of his games. I saw many cheap infield hits, bunt hits, PBs, sac flies, and misplayed balls that were ruled hits. I even documented every single start of Wakes and showed that he had more uinherited runners allowed to score than any other pitcher on the Sox (and no, it wasn't because he left with bases loaded and no outs, most were allowed after 2 outs). I showed that many of his runs were scored on weakly hit balls not scorched liners like other starters were letting up. I think Wake pitched better than his numbers indicated. I know others disagree and assign 100% blame of all the PBs and WP and unearned runs on Wake, but the fatc is VMart had only a tiny fraction of the misplays that Salty had with Wake. I'm not blaming Salty, but I don't blame Wake either for pitching a strike that was not caught. Several runs were scored after a K and PB allowed a runner to reach 1B. I know all pitchers have their share of 'what ifs", but i think Wake had more than his share. I do not think i am being biased, because quite frankly, I don't really even like Wake. He's maybe my 22nd favorite Sox player.  I just don't understand all the Wake bashing. We went 12-11 with our 7th starter who was pushed beyond what he could handle. If next year's mananger realizes that he shouild be a 120 Ip guy (maybe 8 straight starts early in the year, then another 8 staright later, then he will improve his performance. I think his numbers will improve next year even if he pitches the same as this year, especially if we have a catcher that can catch his hard to hit pitches.  I realize we had few choices but to pitch Tim every five days but this happens.  When it does we need more efficiency.  I feel Wang is an inexpensive risk and a ground ball pitcher who "if healthy again" could be in the top three of almost any rotation. If I knew he was and would remain 100% healthy, I'd agree 100%: Wang /> Wake.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]


    moon, overall Wake pitched poorly for about five outings down the stretch when trying for number 200.  Maybe close to average for Wake but it just shows we need a more efficient #6 because Wake can't be relied on every five days.  All I meant is, those five or so starts "like the ones we gave Weiland" realley hurt us down the stretch along with Lackey.  If during those 10 starts between Wake and Wieland we had better choices we probably would have gotten in.  I like Wake, if we can find a role for him it should be as a #7 starter or coach.

    With Tek we agree to disagree obviously but that's fine.  Its hard to watch Tek hit well, then nose dive for the last several years.  This is why I question complacency/ loss of focus for the entire season.  Aging players go through this and it doesn't help our cause.  We need a fresh body back there like Lavarnway regardless, if it takes he and Salty some time with the staff that's natural.  I don't think it will be a huge issue but I will admit I'm wrong if we fall apart without Tek.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    moon, overall Wake pitched poorly for about five outings down the stretch when trying for number 200.  Maybe close to average for Wake but it just shows we need a more efficient #6 because Wake can't be relied on every five days.  All I meant is, those five or so starts "like the ones we gave Weiland" realley hurt us down the stretch along with Lackey.  If during those 10 starts between Wake and Wieland we had better choices we probably would have gotten in.  I like Wake, if we can find a role for him it should be as a #7 starter or coach.

    Gamelogs as Wake went for 200:
    7IP  3 ER
    6.2  3
    7.0  3
    8.0  4
    5.1  4
    4.0  4
    4.0  0 (relief)
    5.0  4
    6.0  5
    5.0  2
    4.0  3  
    Certainly not great, but the point is, it was better than others at the time, but you guys keep writing about him. Until we get better guys than Wake onto this roster 9easier said than done), I'd rather see us get rid of the guys who are worse than Wake first. I still see people saying they have more confidence in Miller and Weiland next year.


    With Tek we agree to disagree obviously but that's fine.  Its hard to watch Tek hit well, then nose dive for the last several years.  This is why I question complacency/ loss of focus for the entire season.  Aging players go through this and it doesn't help our cause.  We need a fresh body back there like Lavarnway regardless, if it takes he and Salty some time with the staff that's natural.  I don't think it will be a huge issue but I will admit I'm wrong if we fall apart without Tek.

    I'm fine with Lava/VTek. I'm not fine with Lava/Salty. I trust we might see why next year.
     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]Wang is a great idea if we already could count on 1-4 but we can't. Thus the team must acquire someone who is a proven performer and actually pitched well all through 2011.  We cannot afford anither question mark. What would you guys have in 2011? Lester is the only one we can even hope to count on. Do you really want to bring in another "maybe"?
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Agree with you.  When Boston had healthy Lester, Beckett, Schilling, Buchotlz and Dice K during their 2007 world series title run, they didnt need anyone.  But in 2008, Schilling went down, they signed Paul Byrd.  Wang could be a perfect guy to sign during the 2008 season.  But like you said, need to count 1-4 healthy pitchers first.  Right now I see Lester as the only guy I can trust the most while question mark is on Beckett, Bucholtz and Lackey if he is not trade. That is why I said go after Edwin Jackson or Malholm or Berhrle first, and then work way down.  I am sure that Wang will get more $$$ eslewhere cuz alot of teams need pitching.  Boston isnt going to try to outbid someone over Wang where he have a previous health issue.


     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out? : Agree with you.  When Boston had healthy Lester, Beckett, Schilling, Buchotlz and Dice K during their 2007 world series title run, they didnt need anyone.  But in 2008, Schilling went down, they signed Paul Byrd.  Wang could be a perfect guy to sign during the 2008 season.  But like you said, need to count 1-4 healthy pitchers first.  Right now I see Lester as the only guy I can trust the most while question mark is on Beckett, Bucholtz and Lackey if he is not trade. That is why I said go after Edwin Jackson or Malholm or Berhrle first, and then work way down.  I am sure that Wang will get more $$$ eslewhere cuz alot of teams need pitching.  Boston isnt going to try to outbid someone over Wang where he have a previous health issue.
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]

    Wang likely will want to sign with a club that'll garantee him a spot in the rotation...He's one of a dozen guys that fall into the 5th starter/organizational depth role...I like Jackson too but he may end up signing with Cardinals...
     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

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    [QUOTE]moon, overall Wake pitched poorly for about five outings down the stretch when trying for number 200.  Maybe close to average for Wake but it just shows we need a more efficient #6 because Wake can't be relied on every five days.  All I meant is, those five or so starts "like the ones we gave Weiland" realley hurt us down the stretch along with Lackey.  If during those 10 starts between Wake and Wieland we had better choices we probably would have gotten in.  I like Wake, if we can find a role for him it should be as a #7 starter or coach. Gamelogs as Wake went for 200: 7IP  3 ER 6.2  3 7.0  3 8.0  4 5.1  4 4.0  4 4.0  0 (relief) 5.0  4 6.0  5 5.0  2 4.0  3   Certainly not great, but the point is, it was better than others at the time, but you guys keep writing about him. Until we get better guys than Wake onto this roster 9easier said than done), I'd rather see us get rid of the guys who are worse than Wake first. I still see people saying they have more confidence in Miller and Weiland next year. With Tek we agree to disagree obviously but that's fine.  Its hard to watch Tek hit well, then nose dive for the last several years.  This is why I question complacency/ loss of focus for the entire season.  Aging players go through this and it doesn't help our cause.  We need a fresh body back there like Lavarnway regardless, if it takes he and Salty some time with the staff that's natural.  I don't think it will be a huge issue but I will admit I'm wrong if we fall apart without Tek. I'm fine with Lava/VTek. I'm not fine with Lava/Salty. I trust we might see why next year.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon,
    Wakefield was a nessesary evil...pitched well enough to lose and was one of the contributing factor on the wear and tear of the bullpen...I don't have a porbel with him returning as long as he's not being counted on as one of the core 5 starters...Saying that he was one of our better options is like choosing between lethal injection or hanging...

    I too love Tek, but even with him behind the plate our staff killed us in September so I'd ve inclined to look too upgrade the position and if that means that tek the BU fine...I don't think Lavarnway or Saltalamacchia should be counted on to carry the load...of the two like you I'd probably take my chances with Lavarnway & Tek...but there are other options and if not now then soon enough were gonna have to replace Tek...
     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    Major League pitching coaches don't develop pitching. They fine-tune it.
    Pitchers are developed through the minor league system.

    False. A pitching coach is the protocol for pitching mechanics and approach which is part of management and development of young pitchers. Young pitchers go to spring training and cut teeth with call-ups and returns to minors and re-call-ups.

    A true idle minded dim witted blowhard who will soon be without two old 40 plus pitiful charity contract begging veterans.

    Readers note that the two biggest board shills were claiming Epstein was not going anywhere until hours ago. Not surprsing that they would spend nearly every feeble post by promoting the value of Wakefield and Varitek. 

    Management had better end the good ole boy gift contracts if it wants to field a 40 man roster that can win it's first playoff game in 4 years.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]moon, overall Wake pitched poorly for about five outings down the stretch when trying for number 200.  Maybe close to average for Wake but it just shows we need a more efficient #6 because Wake can't be relied on every five days.  All I meant is, those five or so starts "like the ones we gave Weiland" realley hurt us down the stretch along with Lackey.  If during those 10 starts between Wake and Wieland we had better choices we probably would have gotten in.  I like Wake, if we can find a role for him it should be as a #7 starter or coach. Gamelogs as Wake went for 200: 7IP  3 ER 6.2  3 7.0  3 8.0  4 5.1  4 4.0  4 4.0  0 (relief) 5.0  4 6.0  5 5.0  2 4.0  3   Certainly not great, but the point is, it was better than others at the time, but you guys keep writing about him. Until we get better guys than Wake onto this roster 9easier said than done), I'd rather see us get rid of the guys who are worse than Wake first. I still see people saying they have more confidence in Miller and Weiland next year. With Tek we agree to disagree obviously but that's fine.  Its hard to watch Tek hit well, then nose dive for the last several years.  This is why I question complacency/ loss of focus for the entire season.  Aging players go through this and it doesn't help our cause.  We need a fresh body back there like Lavarnway regardless, if it takes he and Salty some time with the staff that's natural.  I don't think it will be a huge issue but I will admit I'm wrong if we fall apart without Tek. I'm fine with Lava/VTek. I'm not fine with Lava/Salty. I trust we might see why next year.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon, I'm fine with Lav and Tek for one year but would rather try to swing a deal with a younger catcher like Y. Molina next season than see Tek.  If Lackey is traded for Zambrano, or we pick up a guy like Wilson or Buehrle they would be #4.  I feel Wang and even Aceves could easiliy replace #5 and 6, by simply signing a guy like Ryan Madson to beef up the pen.  Weiland is best suited for the pen in my opinion as is Miller unless we need a spot starter.

    If Beckett is traded we would need to get another front line starter like Marcum or Lincecum.


     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    Varitek has no crediblity. According to departing Epstein, this was to be the final gift contracct for fric and frac.
     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    This is a joke when people say that they rather to have Tek over Salty.  Salty is only 26 years old catcher at the same time Tek started at age of 26 too when he became the starting catcher for the Red Sox back in the late 90's!! It is Salty first full year playing as a catcher.  Of course he worn out at the end of this season.  Same goes to Tek too.  Therefore, Boston isnt letting Salty walk. Salty is more likely to accept fewer years contract than these available catchers via free agency.  So give him one year plus second year option contract.  If Lavarnway is the raw deal catcher for the future, then Boston can let Salty walk after the 2012 season.  

    So you want Tek who is on the decline to come back or Salty is improving from last year to this year.  Give Salty a chance.  


     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out? : I am not saying Aceves wont be a good to great starter, you could be right here, but we know he is a great mid relief guy. He has a scattered record as a starter, and the sample sizes are small, but in the comparison of his starter vs relief roles, he has been clearly better in relief. To me, I'd rather not go the "sign 2-3 arms" and hope one does well. I'd rather sign a solid starter (perhaps a #2 to low #3 type starter) and one steady #5/6 guy that is not a gamble (who eats innings). Wake is not the only guy who can fit this role, but he's cheap and better than about 50 starters who were top 5 starters on their teams last year. To me, that's not bad for a 6th starter. I don't trust guys like Bedard or Wang to be healthy all year. I know Wake is 45, but I actually have more faith in his health than many mid 30 year olds. It's my opinion. I can't back it up with facts, and I don't pretend to know who the next garcia and Colon will be.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Aceves Lifetime Starts:
    2011
    5IP 3H 1 ER  ND
    6IP 5H 1 ER  W
    5IP 8H 5 ER  L
    5IP 4H 4 ER  ND

    2009
    3IP 4H 3 ER  ND

    2008
    5IP 5H 1 ER ND
    7IP 5H 1 ER W

    Lifetime as a starter:

    36 IP  34H 16 ER  2-1  ERA 4.00
     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out? : I'm not "hoping for Wake". I'd rather have a much better pitcher than him, but the reason I keep mentioning him as out 6/7th option is that he is cheaper and more reliable than what else is out there for that slot. No, I do not think Wake "seems more self absorbed in his stats". He made a couple statements about wanting the records. The thing I see about this is that the record he pursues is wins. That's not a personal stat to me. It is what the team wants and needs as well. Him wanting to win does not conflict with the team goal at all. They go hand in hand. To me, Cal Ripken going for the consecutive game streak record was selfish and distracting. He hurt the team several times by playing when he needed rest. Almost everyone (but me) loves Cal and calls him a hero and a warrior. Craze, I have never said Wake has pitched great since his injury in mid-2009. My whole deal defending him is that he has been unfairly bashed for actually doing a pretty good job as our 6/7 starter, especially when you figure in the contract cost. 2011 was a "pitcher's year", yet over 50 pitchers with 10 or more starts had equal or worse numbers than Wake. I'd love to have 5 aces on this team, but the cost of doing that would prohibit having a well paid 6th starter. The amount of time spent on people identifying Wake and our back-up catcher (VTek) as the main problems of this team is just plain insane. They both did what they were supposed to do and more! Compare them to others in their slots and even above their slots and you'll see that they were not the reason we lost, in fact they were pluses.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon - How could you say it's not a personal stat? Just like saves, home runs, etc.

    It could take Wake 30 starts to get his 7 wins. Is that good for the team?
     
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    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]moon, overall Wake pitched poorly for about five outings down the stretch when trying for number 200.  Maybe close to average for Wake but it just shows we need a more efficient #6 because Wake can't be relied on every five days.  All I meant is, those five or so starts "like the ones we gave Weiland" realley hurt us down the stretch along with Lackey.  If during those 10 starts between Wake and Wieland we had better choices we probably would have gotten in.  I like Wake, if we can find a role for him it should be as a #7 starter or coach. Gamelogs as Wake went for 200: 7IP  3 ER 6.2  3 7.0  3 8.0  4 5.1  4 4.0  4 4.0  0 (relief) 5.0  4 6.0  5 5.0  2 4.0  3   Certainly not great, but the point is, it was better than others at the time, but you guys keep writing about him. Until we get better guys than Wake onto this roster 9easier said than done), I'd rather see us get rid of the guys who are worse than Wake first. I still see people saying they have more confidence in Miller and Weiland next year. With Tek we agree to disagree obviously but that's fine.  Its hard to watch Tek hit well, then nose dive for the last several years.  This is why I question complacency/ loss of focus for the entire season.  Aging players go through this and it doesn't help our cause.  We need a fresh body back there like Lavarnway regardless, if it takes he and Salty some time with the staff that's natural.  I don't think it will be a huge issue but I will admit I'm wrong if we fall apart without Tek. I'm fine with Lava/VTek. I'm not fine with Lava/Salty. I trust we might see why next year.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon - Some of the games you point out he was awful even though you show 2 ER in one, the Tampa game.

    After the relief appearance in September, his numbers were:

    20 IP  WHIP = 1.55  4 HB (not included in WHIP) plus WP's and PB's and how many SB's? 
    You want to bring that guy back?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SilverSun. Show SilverSun's posts

    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]Healthy again?  he didnt pitch a full season last year.  He didnt pitch his first major league game until during the month of July for the Nats!! He is too risky to sign!!!
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]

    You are way wrong - I saw Wang pitch in DC this summer and he was and is again great 94 on fast and 78 on change with 11 ground outs on his signature sinker v Braves at end of season when Braves like Sox ewally needed to win.  Wang is better than Wake's beach ball spitches, walks and wild pitches and Theo's In Lackey!!!!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Wang in Wake out? : He might not be a bad gamble even though it's been 4 years since he performed well. If we don't get a viable starter this winter, we might need 3-4 guys like Wang and Wake in hopes that 1-2 work out well.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    stop freaking yek=lling in bold and write like a normal human being, idiot!!!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    moon - How could you say it's not a personal stat? Just like saves, home runs, etc.

    It could take Wake 30 starts to get his 7 wins. Is that good for the team?

    It is consistent with my position all my life and has nothing to do with Wake. Wins are a result of team effort. Everyone on the team does what he can to maximize the chance of the team winning. A guy trying for a home run record may not be helping the team win if he is swinging for the fence every time. A pitcher trying to win each game he pitches does not interfere with the team goal of winning. Yes, just like "saves". A closer trying to get a saves record is not selfish, because he is just trying to do his best and help the team win. 

    The team won 11 of Wake's first 15 starts. At the time, I said Wake should not be expected to continue pitching that well without some kind of break. He didn't pitch that well.

    moon - Some of the games you point out he was awful even though you show 2 ER in one, the Tampa game.

    After the relief appearance in September, his numbers were:

    20 IP  WHIP = 1.55  4 HB (not included in WHIP) plus WP's and PB's and how many SB's?  
    You want to bring that guy back?

    Yes! I do!  I don't judge pitchers on a 20 IP stretch, otherwise I'd want 5 new starters next year.

    Wake has had the best BB/9 rate of all our starters from 2010-2011.
    When Wake pitched, we had one of the best CS rate in 2011.
    Normalize the ERs allowed by our relievers and all the misplayed balls for hits vs Wake and Wake's ERA would be below 4.80.
    Look at all the bunt hits, IF hits and strikes he threw that were not caught. You blame Wake for that. I don't. Yes, he let up a bunch of HRs, but many many of his hits were cheezy. Wake pitched well this year. better than his number not worse. When you compare him to some other Sox starters and about 50 other significant starters around MLB, it's clear to me that Wake was not even close to the biggest problem on this team, but I see you think otherwise.

    The Aceves to starter issue would never have effected Wake, except maybe in May (for about 2 starts). 

    You guys keep posting stats like numbers in September to bash Wake, but like I have said before, use the same criteria for everyone then. 

    I'd rather have Wake start than Lckey, Miller,and Weiland next year. DiceK will not be ready until maybe August, and even then what can we expect there? We got Beckett, Lester and Buchholtz next year, and I'd bet one will be hurt or underperform. We don't have a bunch of money to spend to build up our 4,5,6 and 7 slots. That is why I see Wake's low cost as the reason I see him as a good option for 2012. You seem to think we have an unlimited budget.

    If we raise our budget and sign Wilson, buhrle and trade for Guthrie., I'll be leading the dump Wake parade. I'm serious. I do not have great confidence in Wake. It's a financial and realistic view I am taking. Wake can give us 16-18 good starts next year at about $1.5-2M. If it could be broken into 8 straight starts in April, 6 weeks of minor long relief duty, and then 8 straight starts again, I think his numbers would be much better (especially with a better knuckleball catcher). If the new GM plans on having Salty catch Wake all year again, his numbers will suffer, but still be better than the average 5th starter in the AL. Not bad for a 6/7 starter in my book, and at a fraction of the cost is the kicker.

    I see you posted Aceves' starting numbers. Why not show the whole picture and post his relief numbers too?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Wang in Wake out?

    In Response to Re: Wang in Wake out?:
    [QUOTE]stop freaking yek=lling in bold and write like a normal human being, idiot!!!
    Posted by jader[/QUOTE]

    You're the idiot for not understanding what it is like to be nearly blind. 

    I've answered your idiotic plea about 5 times.

    1) Bold is not screaming ALL CAPS IS!


    2) If I didn't use bold I'd have a hundred typos per post and you'd be calling me an idiot for that. I need bold to see what I am typing.



    3) I could use larger print and no bold if you

     prefer, but I won't for someone who has no

     compassion for those of us who have 

    trouble reading. 
     
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