Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

    Well if you like your OPS

    1. Ruth 1.16
    2. Ted 1.12
    3. Gehrig 1.08
    4. (Juicer)
    5. Albert 1.05
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

    In Response to Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?:
    [QUOTE]I think he had 20/15 vision. That's why they made him a fighter pilot when he went in the service.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]
    The average big leaguer has 20/15 vision, well at least today. He had a very fast hand eye reaction time. This allowed him to to wait a extra split second be before he decided to swing. Which ment he never struck out.
     
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    Ichiro gets good results yes, (which I suppose is what it's all about), but I literally HATE to watch him hit. I think he has the ugliest swing in all of baseball. He looks like he's running toward first throwing his bat at the ball. I wanna yell "get in there and stand in like a man" as I watch him leg out another double.....
     
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    In Response to Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?:
    [QUOTE]Ichiro gets good results yes, (which I suppose is what it's all about), but I literally HATE to watch him hit. I think he has the ugliest swing in all of baseball. He looks like he's running toward first throwing his bat at the ball. I wanna yell "get in there and stand in like a man" as I watch him leg out another double.....
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    It's not pretty to watch but that may be part of what makes him great.  The only man in baseball who can hit the ball and start running to first at the same time.
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

    In Response to Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?:
    [QUOTE]This is the problem, Ichiro and Williams. Comparing a Power guy with a speed guy. I in no way say Teddy Ballgame wasn't a great hitter, but did he ever do 10+ consecutive seasons with 200 hits?
    Posted by tbs2007[/QUOTE]

    Sorry to blow your bubble on this one because you can't get 200 hits a year when you walk an average of 133 times a year. When you look at Williams stats from 1939-1951, the first ten years in the league Ted averaged 508 At Bats, 176 hits, and 133 walks a season because pitcher would often pitch around him. Give him the three war years, plus the 60+ games he missed in 1950 from the elbow injury and not being pitched around so often, he might have strung together 13 straight seasons of 200 hits. Not to discount Ichiro as a great hitter, but Williams OBP is .482, Ichiros is .374 with an OPS of .804 compared to Williams 1.164, not even close, especially when you realize to get 200 plus hits a season Ichiro averages 670 at bats a season to Williams 508.

    Hetchinspete

        
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

    Ted gave 5 years to the U.S. military--during his prime. I think conservatively, during those years, Ted would have averaged 45-55 homers a season. Say it was only 40. That's still another 200 homers on his total.

    What did he have . . . one season when he batted sub 300? Playing hurt he still hit 280 or so.

    These bums today hit 280 one year and they want multi-year, multi-million dollar contacts. What a sad joke.

    Ichiro in this discussion is like talking Babe Pirelli in a discussion of Tom Brady & Peyton Manning. Please . . . .
     
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    In Response to Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?:
    [QUOTE]off the top of my head........ 1 - Williams 2 - Ruth 3 - Gehrig 4 - Cobb 5 - Aaron 6 - Hornsby 7 - Puljous
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Don't forget Honus Wagner. Pujols probably will be higher then 6 when his career is over. Stan Musial should be right behind these guys if not top 7.
     
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    In Response to Re: Was Ted Williams greatest hitter who ever lived?:
    [QUOTE]Absolutely the greatest hitter ever.  And to think he missed all those prime years in the service of his country.  God bless his talent and patriotism....just the opposite of Cassius Clay...
    Posted by ampoule[/QUOTE]
    At least Ali(his name he goes by)did not go to Canada. He didn't even use the contientous objector card. He stayed in this country and said what he believed which was that the Vietnam War was a war we should have never been involved in. And only a few years later most of the USA agreed with him.
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

    In Response to Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?:
    [QUOTE]By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff The Red Sox had this great little nugget in their pre-game media notes: today is the anniversary of Ted Williams hitting his first home run in the majors. It was April 23, 1939 against the Philadelphia Athletics at Fenway Park. Williams connected off Bud Thomas in the first inning. The Sox lost the game 12-8 and the attendance was listed at 12,000. www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/peteabepics/Ted_Williams.jpg " /> www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/assets_c/2011/04/Ted_Williams-thumb-90x135-39591.jpg " alt="Ted_Williams.jpg" width="90" height="135" /> Williams was a 20-year-old rookie that season. He hit .327/.436/.609 with 44 doubles, 11 triples, 31 homers, 107 walks and 145 RBIs. Can you image if a 20-year-old kid did that today? Surely you have done this before. But look at www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willite01.shtml " target="_blank"> Ted's page on Baseball-Reference.com and marvel at what a player he was. The man had a .482 career OBP and a 1.116 OPS. His career OPS+ was 190. It's amazing to think somebody played for 19 seasons, came to the plate 9,791 times and got on base 48.2 percent of the time. Plus hit 521 home runs. Here's to the memory of the greatest hitter who ever lived and the first home run he hit in the majors. That must have been something to see.
    Posted by -EdithBunker-[/QUOTE]
      Yes he was. He was also the greatest hitter who ever died.
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

    Ted said the (advent of the) slider changed the game forever. He made this statement at the end of his career.
    It's fun comparing hitters from different eras. But the fact is, we just don't know how his numbers would fare in the age of cutters and splitters.
     
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    In Response to Re: Was Ted Williams greatest hitter who ever lived?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Was Ted Williams greatest hitter who ever lived? : I figure that if he didn't miss time for the war and still played until 1960, he would have finished with 660 to 700 home runs (fourth all time), 660-690 doubles (5th-7th all time), 2,300-2,350 RBIs (1st all time) and about 3,250-3,330 hits (11th all time). Give or take.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Roy,

    Not to challenge your figures as you come up with staggering career totals, but I've a slight revision figuring Williams missed almost 5 full seasons, three full from WWII, and almost two full seasons from the Korean War. Updated with an average of 37 HRs a year, atleast 120 RBIs, and 176 hits per season during his prime years of 1939-1951 Teddy would have finished with 711 HRs, 2400 RBIs, and over 3500 hits, and to make those numbers even more impressive he accomplished all this while only averaging 508 at bats, because pitchers walked him 133 times a year during that time span. Take away many of those walks from being pitched around, being patient at the plate to take all those walks and the numbers would be staggering, far surpassing anyone, possibly reaching Cobbs 4000 hits before Rose, well outdistancing Ruths 714 HRs etc, etc. 

    At first I was reluctant to compare eras, with players numbers: Ruth, Fox, Dimaggio, Mays, Mantle, Ichiro, Gehrig, Pujols, Hornsby, Shoeless Joe Jackson and Rose of the players I ran a full analysis of. Only Ruth and Gehrig compare or come close to Williams. Gehrigs numbers are way short of both in career totals, but given he retired early for loss of health, if he'd stayed healthy his total might compare well to the power figures Ruth and Williams put up, with hits, rbis, as well, but Gehrigs OBP was .447  with a 1.080 compared to Teds .482 and 1.116 OPS. Of course this is all subjective as I said given comparing eras etc, etc. But given all the stats one can make a strong case for Williams and Ruth being the two greatest of all time. 

    Hetchinspete.    
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

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    [QUOTE]Ted said the (advent of the) slider changed the game forever. He made this statement at the end of his career. It's fun comparing hitters from different eras. But the fact is, we just don't know how his numbers would fare in the age of cutters and splitters.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]
     As well as seeing 3 or more fresh pitchers per game, as opposed to when you finished what you started back in Ted's day.
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

    Some of Ruth's earlier years were amazing when compared to what the rest of the league was doing. He hit more HRs than almost every team a couple years. He played about 5 years in the "deadball era" and as great pitcher, missed a lot of PAs those early years. He also played in ashorter season.

    9 year over 45 HRs (11 over 40)
    11 years leading the league in BBs
    13 seasons leading the league in OPS

    Teddy led the league in OPS 10 times, but probably would have led it 13 or more had he not missed those 5 years.

     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?


    jayt, How many years did you spend crawling on your stomach in the jungles of VietNam because your country asked you to?  Or, how many of your personal friends never came back?

    Williams wasn't yellow like Cassius Clay...but, from your response I know that you already are.
     
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    [QUOTE]No Ichiro in this discussion, Pete Rose or Sadahara Oh?
    Posted by tbs2007[/QUOTE]

    Oh does get credit for being a great hitter, but I'd venture a guess that in his era 1959-1980, Japanese baseball was probably equal to or no better than our minor league AAA farm teams. I'm 62 and remember commentary from knowledgeable baseball writers, etc about this subject. There were also a number of Amercan players in Japan in that era who put together good power stats, but only played in Japan because the couldn't make it in the major leagues. But who would know. It's possible, but doubtful he would have put up those number in MLB.    
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

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    [QUOTE]jayt, How many years did you spend crawling on your stomach in the jungles of VietNam because your country asked you to?  Or, how many of your personal friends never came back? Williams wasn't yellow like Cassius Clay...but, from your response I know that you already are.
    Posted by ampoule[/QUOTE]

    I wouldn't call Clay a coward. Anybody who steps into a prof. boxing ring has guts.
    He stood up for what he believed in. Recall, he was first declined. Then the draft board changed their mind. That's what initially pissed him off.
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

    I know I'm hogging the site with a few posts, but need to bring up the Black players from the old Negro Leagues who were unfairly denied the ability to play in the majors till the late 40s. I don't know much of this era, the player from those leagues etc, and really wish I had that knowledge, but who is to say that there might not have been a player from those old leagues that might have been the equal to Ruth or Williams. It is a possibility that can't be discounted !!

    Hetchinspete.  
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?



    Sorry, Harness, for going political.  I just have very strong feelings for people who served and sacrificed as opposed to others who chose not to.

    I'll stop now...
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

    Who knows what Fred Flinstone would have hit had he not had to serve in the rock pit.
     
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    In Response to Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?:
    [QUOTE]off the top of my head........ 1 - Williams 2 - Ruth 3 - Gehrig 4 - Cobb 5 - Aaron 6 - Hornsby 7 - Puljous
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    I can't believe I agree with you on something, I think you have the top 3 right but in a the wrong order, very good list overall
    1 Ruth
    2 Gehrig
    3 Williams
     
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    Hetch, absolutely!!  I've seen several deocumentaries about the Negro leagues and there were many GREAT players.

    The way we treated these people etc. is an embarassment.
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?

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    [QUOTE]jayt, How many years did you spend crawling on your stomach in the jungles of VietNam because your country asked you to?  Or, how many of your personal friends never came back? Williams wasn't yellow like Cassius Clay...but, from your response I know that you already are.
    Posted by ampoule[/QUOTE]That's pretty harsh ampoule. I served in the military, and when I was in HS one of my best buds was a Vietnam Vet. Just so you know, not every Vietnam Vet supported that war. I think Ali said "Why should I travel 10000 miles away to kill other poor people?". And his name was Muhammad Ali, not Cassius Clay. Even Howard Cossell acknowledged that. Oh, and he was probably the greatest boxer who ever lived.
     
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    Re: Was Ted Williams the greatest hitter who ever lived?



    carp, it truly amazes me that yankee fans must come to a Red Sox site it order to intentionally soil their pants.
     

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