We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    The sox are stumbling for a variety of reasons, injuries, not having Papi in the lineup due to the inane "National League Rules" and the law of averages.  A team that plays .700 ball for several weeks will invariably play .350 ball soon thereafter.  Any long time "real baseball fan" understands that championship teams lose 40% of the time or better.  Beckett did not get the job done but he wasn't completely awful either.  You have to tip your cap to Mr. Cliff Lee in the end.  The sox will be fine, I am not worried.
     
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    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    really ?

    I haven't seen it

    other than the  '' inane "National League Rules''

     I agree with the rest of your post
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    Zac,

    Even if they aren't titled as such, the frustration over people underperforming is still primarily directed at Tito and also Theo.  the malcontents who start these threads have to utilize subterfuge to get these posts started because so many people will not respond to the reactionary tendencies of the same people who have it in for the guy regardless of how many championships he manages to deliver to the fans.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    My favorite so far is the one about not pinch-hitting for Beckett in the 6th inning.  The Sox had two hits against Lee who pitched a complete game shutout--which was very consistent with the way he has pitched all month--and guys are mad because Ortiz or Drew or Sutton didn't get to hit for Beckett. 

     
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    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    In Response to We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]The sox are stumbling for a variety of reasons, injuries, not having Papi in the lineup due to the inane "National League Rules" and the law of averages.  A team that plays .700 ball for several weeks will invariably play .350 ball soon thereafter.  Any long time "real baseball fan" understands that championship teams lose 40% of the time or better.  Beckett did not get the job done but he wasn't completely awful either.  You have to tip your cap to Mr. Cliff Lee in the end.  The sox will be fine, I am not worried.
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    Agree with you.  But the Phillies pitching staff is the best in the league.   The Red Sox have already lost Dice-K for the season.  With Lackey struggling the Red Sox who appeared to have a dominant pitching staff at the beginning of the season aren't nearly as good as many of us thought.  We can only hope that Lackey gets better as the season progresses.   Pitching is still a concern for the Red Sox going forward. 
     
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    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum


    I hear you, william93063

    trust me, I fight with ''yankee fan'' who are nyy bashers daily

    but I think there is a tendency on this board to

    overreact  with  their protection of tito

    I mean 2nd guessing management is a big part of

    baseball talk period


    I'm a tito fan but you must agree 

    that  even if tito is the best mgr ever

    it doesn't mean he makes the best decision every time
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    I think you are thinking just because the Sox lost last night with a inferior lineup,  that people blame  Francona for the loss.
    Well Francona is the manager and makes the lineup out, makes the on field decisions, and is the Boss during the games.
    I don't think Francona is a good manager or even a average manager, but the reasons are not based on last nights game, but over the 8 years he has been the manager.
    Again Francona walked into a very good situation and the pieces were in place for anyone to be successful and to win a WS[S].
    But look at his managing our lack of managing game after game, his total lack of playing small ball ever, trying to score that run in scoring position with less than two outs, never knowing when to replace a pitcher, giving games away, hardly ever using a bunt to move runners, and always juggling the lineup.
    The lineup is always changing, he rest players who don't need that extra day off, heck he rested Pedroia one year just after the All-star game, because in his words, Pedroia needed a day off.
    One reason the Yankee's are always good is generally speaking you know who will play each and every day. Their lineup is pretty much set each day, but with the Sox Francona will play someone because as he said once, he likes to play, so we will get him in their.

    Francona is a nice person and I like him as a baseball man, but he is not a good manager, just a very fortunate man who fell into a great situation in 04.
     
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    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]I think you are thinking just because the Sox lost last night with a inferior lineup,  that people blame  Francona for the loss. Well Francona is the manager and makes the lineup out, makes the on field decisions, and is the Boss during the games. I don't think Francona is a good manager or even a average manager, but the reasons are not based on last nights game, but over the 8 years he has been the manager. Again Francona walked into a very good situation and the pieces were in place for anyone to be successful and to win a WS[S]. But look at his managing our lack of managing game after game, his total lack of playing small ball ever, trying to score that run in scoring position with less than two outs, never knowing when to replace a pitcher, giving games away, hardly ever using a bunt to move runners, and always juggling the lineup. The lineup is always changing, he rest players who don't need that extra day off, heck he rested Pedroia one year just after the All-star game, because in his words, Pedroia needed a day off. One reason the Yankee's are always good is generally speaking you know who will play each and every day. Their lineup is pretty much set each day, but with the Sox Francona will play someone because as he said once, he likes to play, so we will get him in their. Francona is a nice person and I like him as a baseball man, but he is not a good manager, just a very fortunate man who fell into a great situation in 04.
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]

    I've heard these arguments against Tito ad infinitum: they are weak and obvious.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]I hear you, william93063 trust me, I fight with ''yankee fan'' who are nyy bashers daily but I think there is a tendency on this board to overreact  with  their protection of tito I mean 2nd guessing management is a big part of baseball talk period I'm a tito fan but you must agree  that  even if tito is the best mgr ever it doesn't mean he makes the best decision every time
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]

    Heck Joe Torre made lots of mistakes but I still think he is a HOF manager!  His overuse of certain relievers back in the day was one of the biggest points of criticism and well founded!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

             That Francona walked into a very good situation can be debated yes the talent was there, but he had to rally the troops after losing to Yankees in a memorable melt down. Does he get any credit for '04 comeback against the very same Yanks. Granted his in game manageing can leave you scratching your head but his manageing of the team through the long season has been his strongest assest.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    This board has been awash with coma-can't-manage threads through 2 world championships, 5 playoff berths, and and everage of 93 wins per year for 7 long years.  So, without delving into specifics (as this would be inconsistent with the wash of coma-can't-manage threads), we can conclude that, either:  The Sox win in spite of 'Coma, or: he makes mistakes, as ALL managers do, and this does not actually mean he is a poor manager.  I do not claim to be certain about which is true, as baseball is a great mystery to me.  BUT, I do think one of these makes sense and one makes very little sense.  7 years of being one of the top teams in baseball completely in spite of its manager is tough to buy into.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    Tito is a HOF Mgr, and no Mgr is perfect. Also MGRs understand who is available on a given night, as opposed to many fickle fans, who don't. Period.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    I think the big thing here is when he does tend to go with "white-flag lineups." It usually occurs when the team is struggling, facing a good lefthander. He trots out the right-heavy lineup as best he can and cites 2-for-5 in career splits v. the pitcher to justify his ways. There are things he can either improve upon or get better at. He also plays favorites when it comes to rushing in his bullpen against leaving the SP in. Some guys, he has the whole arsenal ready. Others he will wait until it's too late in some sort of effort to not pitch the pen. It's his choices in this area that sometimes boggles the mind. I still think that was never more evident than v. the Cubs when he just threw away a win because he decided there was no way he was going to use another reliever after Albers. I do give him credit for 04, i give him credit for being a strong media-friendly manager, and I hope he manages another 15 years. . .But it doesn't mean he's not open to criticism and I think the ones here cited by peanut are very accurate criticisms.



    In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]I think you are thinking just because the Sox lost last night with a inferior lineup,  that people blame  Francona for the loss. Well Francona is the manager and makes the lineup out, makes the on field decisions, and is the Boss during the games. I don't think Francona is a good manager or even a average manager, but the reasons are not based on last nights game, but over the 8 years he has been the manager. Again Francona walked into a very good situation and the pieces were in place for anyone to be successful and to win a WS[S]. But look at his managing our lack of managing game after game, his total lack of playing small ball ever, trying to score that run in scoring position with less than two outs, never knowing when to replace a pitcher, giving games away, hardly ever using a bunt to move runners, and always juggling the lineup. The lineup is always changing, he rest players who don't need that extra day off, heck he rested Pedroia one year just after the All-star game, because in his words, Pedroia needed a day off. One reason the Yankee's are always good is generally speaking you know who will play each and every day. Their lineup is pretty much set each day, but with the Sox Francona will play someone because as he said once, he likes to play, so we will get him in their. Francona is a nice person and I like him as a baseball man, but he is not a good manager, just a very fortunate man who fell into a great situation in 04.
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    Tito has a basic style of management.  Each guy on the team has a role and uses those guys in the roles they were hired to do.  He doesn't change unless the team has been struggling for a while, it's the post season, or they are playing the division leader.

    Fans hate the style when the team is struggling.  But it the players love it.  They love the routine and they like not having to worry about getting benched if they go through a tough patch.

    You can;t live and die with each game or even each series.  The team gets hot, they get cold.  That's the way it is.  But it's crazy to expect a team to play .700 or even .625 ball for the entire year.

    They started out cold, got extremely hot, and have cooled off as of late.  Now it's time to see who can help the team and what trades are needed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]I think you are thinking just because the Sox lost last night with a inferior lineup,  that people blame  Francona for the loss. Well Francona is the manager and makes the lineup out, makes the on field decisions, and is the Boss during the games. I don't think Francona is a good manager or even a average manager, but the reasons are not based on last nights game, but over the 8 years he has been the manager. Again Francona walked into a very good situation and the pieces were in place for anyone to be successful and to win a WS[S]. But look at his managing our lack of managing game after game, his total lack of playing small ball ever, trying to score that run in scoring position with less than two outs, never knowing when to replace a pitcher, giving games away, hardly ever using a bunt to move runners, and always juggling the lineup. The lineup is always changing, he rest players who don't need that extra day off, heck he rested Pedroia one year just after the All-star game, because in his words, Pedroia needed a day off. One reason the Yankee's are always good is generally speaking you know who will play each and every day. Their lineup is pretty much set each day, but with the Sox Francona will play someone because as he said once, he likes to play, so we will get him in their. Francona is a nice person and I like him as a baseball man, but he is not a good manager, just a very fortunate man who fell into a great situation in 04.
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]

    total lack of playing small ball ever - not true.  just uses it extremely judiciously, unlike wanton managers like Mike Scoscia.  This "non-use" anyway is philosophical.  Straight Bill James and many organizations, particularly in the A'L, ascribe to it.  

    Line-up juggling - Yes, but, if you pay attention, you might notice that he does this early in the season so that he can get the right mix and tends to lock down a regular line-up post all-star break.  yes, he believes in using the first-half as see-what-we-got time.  But the idea is to see-what-they-got so they know what they got down the stretch.  Tito, unlike many fans, has his eyes on the big prize and knows he has to do some mixing and matching to learn what works and what doesn't and what doesn't and also to give experiments time to come together.

    Days Off - Yup.  Perhaps to a flaw, but, again, with the eyes on the big prize, he errs on the side of caution so the boys are fresh and ready down the stretch.  We take it for granted with all the playoff appearances, but, do you think it is just about the calibre of players behind the fact that, minus last year and 06 injury-decimation years, the Sox have managed to play great stretch run ball and pull out playoff spots in tight races every single year?  

    Its not that your points don't have some merit.  They are just very debatable.  You COMA-legions are very black and white in your assessments of Francona.  But, there is a lot of grey area you do not consider.  And baseball is full of grey area.  162 games is a long season.  my personal feeling is that the COMA-legions have very little concept of the ins and outs of that grind.  Maybe I am wrong.  Maybe I don't know jack about baseball.  But, as i see it, all managers make many mistakes.  Nature of the beast.  Tito is no different.  I don't want to argue that he is a bastion of perfection.  Just that he is a solid manager with a distinct approach.  The very issues you point to as what makes him a horrible manager are the reasons that I think he is a good manager.  Go figure.
     
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    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    Too funny.  Name a post season series that was lost because of something Francona did?  Name the season in which the Red Sox failed to make the post season because of something francona did?

    $150 million (give or take) and some fans think the team needs to be micro managed.

    With few exceptions, the talent on this team is exceptional.  When you have this type of talent, whether it's baseball or in an office, the manager's role is to get out of the way and remove anything that might interfere with the individuals being successful.

    I love working for managers like Tito.  I would hate to work for someone like Ozzie.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    maybe we are awash in them because our manager makes obvious mistakes that even casual fans can see?

    that wouldnt be it would it....i guess like Hilary says (sort of) its a grand anti-Tito conspiracy
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]maybe we are awash in them because our manager makes obvious mistakes that even casual fans can see? that wouldnt be it would it....i guess like Hilary says (sort of) its a grand anti-Tito conspiracy
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Casual fans see what they want to see.  They--you--don't know spit, but will argue endlessly that Francona should have done something different.  Knowledgeable fans either agree with Francona or give him the benefit of the doubt. 

    You in particular seem to think that, by failing to win all 162 games, Francona is a failure as a manager. 
     
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    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    hahahha max...you are right, KNOWLEGEABLE fans ALWAYS agree with Coma

    I guess that eliminates the entire state of PA. and the Phillies org that booted our fearless leader to the curb for incompetence

    and i agree with you - Coma does know spit....unlike me....
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]hahahha max...you are right, KNOWLEGEABLE fans ALWAYS agree with Coma I guess that eliminates the entire state of PA. and the Phillies org that booted our fearless leader to the curb for incompetence and i agree with you - Coma does know spit....unlike me....
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    This thing about the Phillies 'booting him to the curb' is silly.  It was his first managing job and he was there 4 years before being let go.  Over the course of history this has happened to hundreds of managers, no?  Including some who went on to great success with other teams.  Buck Showalter is with his 4th team and is considered to be a good manager.

    I know Francona's Phillies had a lousy record and a lot of the fans were down on him.  But his best player was Schilling and Schilling thought very highly of him.
     
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    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum : This thing about the Phillies 'booting him to the curb' is silly.  It was his first managing job and he was there 4 years before being let go.  Over the course of history this has happened to hundreds of managers, no?  Including some who went on to great success with other teams.  Buck Showalter is with his 4th team and is considered to be a good manager. I know Francona's Phillies had a lousy record and a lot of the fans were down on him.  But his best player was Schilling and Schilling thought very highly of him.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    That would include Joe Torre as well who managed the Mets from 1977 to 1981 without a winning season. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    Furthermore when Tito managed in Philly the front office was notoriously cheap and would not give him what he needed in terms of personnel.  It was an incredibly frustrating experience but I think we sox fans can at least agree that his "character building" managing experience was our gain ultimately.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]Furthermore when Tito managed in Philly the front office was notoriously cheap and would not give him what he needed in terms of personnel.  It was an incredibly frustrating experience but I think we sox fans can at least agree that his "character building" managing experience was our gain ultimately.
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    william, i don't think "we" sox fans can agree on that actually.  Some of us can, some of us seem to think that he is a total moron who does not understand the game of baseball.  weird huh?
     
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    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum : william, i don't think "we" sox fans can agree on that actually.  Some of us can, some of us seem to think that he is a total moron who does not understand the game of baseball.  weird huh?
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Sadly you are spot on Spaceman!  I wish you were not but the evidence is overwhelming in support of this idea!
     
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    Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum

    In Response to Re: We are awash in "Coma can't manage threads" on the forum:
    [QUOTE]I hear you, william93063 trust me, I fight with ''yankee fan'' who are nyy bashers daily but I think there is a tendency on this board to overreact  with  their protection of tito I mean 2nd guessing management is a big part of baseball talk period I'm a tito fan but you must agree  that  even if tito is the best mgr ever it doesn't mean he makes the best decision every time
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]

    8AM AND 2AM on another thread in the same 24 hr. period -- all posts about Sox fans talking about the Sox. When exactly do you get to fight with Yankee fans anywhere, when you're here all the time critiquing Sox fans' posts about their team, going after anyone who says anything negative about the Yankees, and accusing posters of being other posters? Not to mention the other Sox board you post on posing as a Sox fan. Is this your whole life?
     

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