We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from joeyama99. Show joeyama99's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    I think you give Salty more time, say a month or so.  Then maybe work the San Diego pipeline again.  Perhaps the Pads would try to sell high on Nick Hundley?  Maybe straight up for Doubront?

    Or maybe the Mariners would deal Olivo if or when Moore comes back?  What do you think, hill55?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?:
    [QUOTE]as i said, theo had the chance to trade bowden for montero. yes hindsight is 20/20 but part of being a good gm is seing the potential in young players. catcher has always been a week spot for us in the minors. we had the chance to trade for a good, young catchers in montero and ianetta but declined to do so.
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    You're raising a valid issue but I don't find it credible that the Red Sox turned down a chance to trade Bowden straight-up for Montero.  What is your source on this?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    You can't have too many more nights like the one Salty had last night.  Almost cost us the game with just his glove. 

    I remember in 2001 when Tek went down we were left w/ Hattenburg and we could not throw anyone out.  It was incredibly embarrasing...And then we traded for Mirabelli and he was able to stop the madness (was like 3X the backstop and even hit much better).  That's the kind of trade I think we need. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    Yes, 2 years ago AZ said if you want Montero you need to part w/ Bowden.  Theo said no.  Most of us agreed based on the Bowden hype.  Bowden gave us one very good start and one amazing relief appearance and has been below average ever since. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?:
    [QUOTE]Yes, 2 years ago AZ said if you want Montero you need to part w/ Bowden.  Theo said no.  Most of us agreed based on the Bowden hype.  Bowden gave us one very good start and one amazing relief appearance and has been below average ever since. 
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    But was this supposed to be a one-for-one deal or Bowden as part of a package? 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wildcat66. Show wildcat66's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    Offense-wise:  Anybody remember Papi in April-May '04? (they were going to send him down until our hero, Jeremy Giambi, went down with an injury).  Pedroia in his first spring (.140-ish in mid-May, then ROY).  Too early to call it. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    I believe it was a 1 for 1....I think I would have recalled if more names were involved...Maybe there was a 2nd,lowel-level Sox Prospect involved but that would have been it.  If you want, see if you can dig into the Archives of MLBTradeRumors (maybe do a search Bowden Montero)........

    I also recall that 99% or so of us here said NOT to give up Bowden.  Myself included.  Bowden has been a dissappointment; I'd still like clarification from Theo as what happened w/ Bowden in his development and/or original projection of him.........

    I hope that helps..maybe someone else here recalls the details more clearly?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ConcernTroll. Show ConcernTroll's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    In Response to We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?:
    [QUOTE]I think its safe to say that the salty experiment is over. He cant hit, he is below average defensively, and the pitchers do not trust him. The problem is at this point who can we get? We had a chance to get miguel montero for michael bowden a year ago but theo decided to pass, we had a chance to get chris ianetta for jed lowrie but theo decided to pass. So here are some guys i think could be options for us: 1.Ryan Doumit (is available, decent option) 2.Mike Napoli (defence not great, but we could use his bat) 3.Chris ianetta (might be available) Ianetta would be my preference out of the 3.  What do you guys think? Who else could be available and interest the sox? (please do not say pudge as we do not need another 39 yr old catcher)
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    I just read your most recent ten posts on ten threads and I can't figure out why you have a moniker of Redsoxpride. You sound more like Babe than you do a loyal Red Sox fan. Are you a concern troll?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    Wildcat - that was in 2003 and they weren't going to send Ortiz down...They were going to trade him or release him........
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?:
    [QUOTE]where's the link that Theo turned down Bowden for Montero? If anything, my vague recollection of the events is that ARI wanted Buchholz and Theo countered with Bowden.
    Posted by lvanDrago[/QUOTE]

    I'd be curious about that also.  Bowden never topped out any higher than #83.  And he didn't seem like your typical high ceiling prospect with a power FB or anything.  I'd have been surprised that AZ would've parted with Montero for him.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?:
    [QUOTE]Why didn't the Sox re-sign Victor?
    Posted by cpjohn1[/QUOTE]

    I like VMart, but his OPS is .709 and he's on the DL.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    Gammons: Red Sox Focused On Montero

    Peter Gammons did a chat today with Boston Globe readers, and he discussed Boston's pursuit for a catcher.

    The Red Sox "seem focused" on Arizona catcher Miguel Montero, with Jarrod Saltalamacchia remaining a possibility.  The Red Sox so far will not give up Michael Bowden for Montero.  Gammons notes the Sox made failed runs at Russell Martin and Mike Napoli.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ubahero. Show ubahero's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    This catching combo has until June to produce to the level both offensively and defensively that the Sox need...and I still think its going to happen.  Salty is working hard enough and he has the best combination of coaching in Gary Tuck and support in just how it's supposed to be done in Jason Varitek that if it is going to work, it will work here.  Having said that, if it doesn't work, then you will see Theo Epstein do something.  After last year's "lack of interest" in the team, there will be improvements if needed to get to the playoffs and win the World Series.  It is much more profitable to have "interested fans."  They have invested heavily, and Theo is the master of in season corrections.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    It's possible Theo could go shopping in Midmay.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    Sorry I've not time to read the other posts this morning, but I'm not in favor of parting with Salty so quickly or this socalled expierement which is far from over. It was only a few games ago many wrote off this season. I'm not sure what type or quality of mentoring he got with Texas so I'd send him down to Pawtucket which is close enough to Boston that he could get coaching from Tek, plus our minor league staff. Some players take longer than others to mature. I'm in favor of keeping him and giving him a fair chance to improve. Sometimes just a change of scenery to a new organization can make a difference in a career.

    Hetchinspete.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    I agree with moon. Mid-May would seem to be a logical tipping point for Salty. By then, we shall have - as they say - a moment of clarity. 

    This FO is pretty thorough in its evaluation of players and they must see something in Salty that has not yet been seen in full evidence by the rest of us.  The thinking by the FO seems to be, though, that the rest of the team would hit so well that a low-hitting catcher could be carried without too much harm.  That is still true. 

    The real problem with Salty has been his handling of the staff, IMO.  His troubles behind the plate, not at the plate, have been the real drag on the team and should be the true focus of his improvement efforts.  He seemed to show some promise in preventing steals and throwing to 2d base during Spring Training, but that was then and this is now. 

    One wonders how much knowledge transfer has occurred between Tek and Salty; Tek has been pretty quiet about that aspect of the relationship. Could it be that Salty is "not getting it," not actualizing his instruction?   Stay tuned.

    I feel for the kid, but unless his game steps up and the pitching staff accepts him, his time in Boston will be short. I do think that Theo gave short shrift to the C position during the off-season, with the majority of attention paid to Crawford and Gonzalez.  But that was Theo's choice and it made sense to him.

    Theo still had room in the budget, too, to acquire an experiencd C at fair value, IMO.  But he chose not to.   And that is fine with me, truly- it is part of Theo's well-established risk/reward behavior, and I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to a GM that have given us two WS champs.  Theo thought he could have a low-cost, high-upside-potential situation with Salty which, to date, has not worked out as hoped.  This line of thinking has done well with some players in the past, and some not so much.  We tend to think of the Brad Pennys and Eric Gagnes and John Smoltzs, and forget about the Bobby Kieltys and Dave Robertses and Bill Halls.  

    But Theo has kept that money on the table to use before the trade deadline.  Fair enough. But a C at trade deadline will cost more than would have been asked in Spring Training. That, too, is part of the risk that Theo assumes with Salty and his ilk. 

    Here endeth the lesson.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmini. Show mrmini's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    Last year we had a great 3b (Beltre) a great 1b (Youkillis) a very good offensive
    C, DH and could play 1B (V Mart) and plenty of guys on the DL. We had two
    pitchers that were great, two that had off yrs and with that we were 6 or 7
    games from the play offs. This yr we go out and spend about 300M on two
    ball players, pick up some bull pen help and things have't worked out yet.
    Now,,,,, we could have signed Beltre & V Mart for less than 150M which is a
    savings of 150M (Hear that Mr Henry). In addition our 4 guys we sent to
    San Di for AGon would still be with us to pry a LF if our minor league could not produce one. There was no need of us getting AG & CC for us to get to the
    play offs this yr.Don;t get me wrong AG & CC are going to be great dn the road
    but did we need them to win now. (I don't think so) And another thing we
    wouldn't be spending more for another catcher.    CASE CLOSED.
    I do not expect you all to agree but if it was your money????????????
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?:
    [QUOTE]I agree with moon. Mid-May would seem to be a logical tipping point for Salty. By then, we shall have - as they say - a moment of clarity.  This FO is pretty thorough in its evaluation of players and they must see something in Salty that has not yet been seen in full evidence by the rest of us.  The thinking by the FO seems to be, though, that the rest of the team would hit so well that a low-hitting catcher could be carried without too much harm.  That is still true.  The real problem with Salty has been his handling of the staff, IMO.  His troubles behind the plate, not at the plate, have been the real drag on the team and should be the true focus of his improvement efforts.  He seemed to show some promise in preventing steals and throwing to 2d base during Spring Training, but that was then and this is now.  One wonders how much knowledge transfer has occurred between Tek and Salty; Tek has been pretty quiet about that aspect of the relationship. Could it be that Salty is "not getting it," not actualizing his instruction?   Stay tuned. I feel for the kid, but unless his game steps up and the pitching staff accepts him, his time in Boston will be short. I do think that Theo gave short shrift to the C position during the off-season, with the majority of attention paid to Crawford and Gonzalez.  But that was Theo's choice and it made sense to him. Theo still had room in the budget, too, to acquire an experiencd C at fair value, IMO.  But he chose not to.   And that is fine with me, truly- it is part of Theo's well-established risk/reward behavior, and I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to a GM that have given us two WS champs.  Theo thought he could have a low-cost, high-upside-potential situation with Salty which, to date, has not worked out as hoped.  This line of thinking has done well with some players in the past, and some not so much.  We tend to think of the Brad Pennys and Eric Gagnes and John Smoltzs, and forget about the Bobby Kieltys and Dave Robertses and Bill Halls.   But Theo has kept that money on the table to use before the trade deadline.  Fair enough. But a C at trade deadline will cost more than would have been asked in Spring Training. That, too, is part of the risk that Theo assumes with Salty and his ilk.  Here endeth the lesson.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    Summer,

    Excellent letter with lots of good reasoning behind it. My thoughts added below !!

    I feel for Salty as well, but again it's his profession and like any job if you cannot do the work, you either retrain or you're on the street. With Salty It's different as for me It's a long term process and investment for the Red Sox that may turn out to be a very good investment if they are willing to be patient. In the short term it may or may not work this year, and I'm sure Theo knew the risk, but if it doesn't work this year, if Salty has options available use those to go to Pawtucket and work on his craft.   

    I think of Salty as young at 25, and yes I know he's getting mentoring and ongoing daily training from Tek, but it may take a while to possibly unlearn bad habits he may have picked up with Texas and relearn his position from Tek, but who better to work with him. It's like you or I getting a new job at another company, possibly the same job, but it can vary per employer. You need to adapt to each employer. Salty is no different to some extent.
     
    Theo is a decent judge of talent, just as the scouts who work for the Sox, so I trust thier instincts if they feel that Salty was a good prospect. Theo has made some poor deals, but no GM is perfect, but overall our team is competitive every year. That can't be said for many teams in MLB.

    Hetchinspete.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?:
    [QUOTE]Gammons: Red Sox Focused On Montero By Tim Dierkes [January 9, 2009 at 2:57pm CST] Peter Gammons did a chat today with Boston Globe readers, and he discussed Boston's pursuit for a catcher. The Red Sox "seem focused" on Arizona catcher Miguel Montero , with Jarrod Saltalamacchia remaining a possibility.  The Red Sox so far will not give up Michael Bowden for Montero.  Gammons notes the Sox made failed runs at Russell Martin and Mike Napoli .
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

     "Gammons notes the Sox made failed runs at Russell Martin and Mike Napoli".

    From what I've read elsewhere and Gammons seems to miss is that we made a run at Russel Martin but he wasn't interested in the Sox once the Yankees showed interest. How true I'm not sure !!

    Hetchinspete.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?:
    [QUOTE]Last year we had a great 3b (Beltre) a great 1b (Youkillis) a very good offensive C, DH and could play 1B (V Mart) and plenty of guys on the DL. We had two pitchers that were great, two that had off yrs and with that we were 6 or 7 games from the play offs. This yr we go out and spend about 300M on two ball players, pick up some bull pen help and things have't worked out yet. Now,,,,, we could have signed Beltre & V Mart for less than 150M which is a savings of 150M (Hear that Mr Henry). In addition our 4 guys we sent to San Di for AGon would still be with us to pry a LF if our minor league could not produce one. There was no need of us getting AG & CC for us to get to the play offs this yr.Don;t get me wrong AG & CC are going to be great dn the road but did we need them to win now. (I don't think so) And another thing we wouldn't be spending more for another catcher.    CASE CLOSED. I do not expect you all to agree but if it was your money????????????
    Posted by mrmini[/QUOTE]

    Sorry to post three post three answers in a row, but except for Russell Martin who was available, and as much as I hated to see V-Mart leave, I believe that apparently Theo, Tito and the front office thought he must be too much of a defensive liability to resign.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get? :  "Gammons notes the Sox made failed runs at Russell Martin and Mike Napoli" . From what I've read elsewhere and Gammons seems to miss is that we made a run at Russel Martin but he wasn't interested in the Sox once the Yankees showed interest. How true I'm not sure !! Hetchinspete.
    Posted by Hetchinspete[/QUOTE]

    That quote from Gammons is from Jan, 2009.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get? : Sorry to post three post three answers in a row, but except for Russell Martin who was available, and as much as I hated to see V-Mart leave, I believe that apparently Theo, Tito and the front office thought he must be too much of a defensive liability to resign.  
    Posted by Hetchinspete[/QUOTE]

    It's also important to note that the Tigers didn't sign him to be their #1 catcher.  He has had 11 starts at DH and 5 at catcher.  Avila is their #1 catcher.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjgray. Show jjgray's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    Salty has got to go.  For those saying wait 4 more weeks, do you realize the potential losses the sox could sustain in that time.  He's not ready, never was ready (ask Texas & Atlanta) and never will be ready to be the full time catcher on a team with a $180 Million dollar payroll.  He totally defeats that premise.  Should have gone after Napoli...(not the greatest but a BIG upgrade over Salty)..
    What would Oakland want for Suzuki............he's a killer in Fenway.  Plus he can throw to 2nd without a bounce....
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    They tried to get Martin TWICE - going into 09 and 11 ..........Theo needs another 4 years to find a bona fide catcher.  Patience please.........
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: We need a new catcher, the salty experiment is over. But who can we get?

    Good thing posters here aren't running team otherwise Pedey would have gone back to minors and probably never heard from again due to loss of confidence. Salty has talent, but he's not stupid either, he's being handed a huge opportunity for a young player. Will he reach that potential is anybody's guess but sending him down or bringing someone else in before we even hit May 1 is a bit much. He's pressing big time needs to relax. I agree w/ a few posters who suggest giving him til mid May to turn it around. If he doesn't RS will be forced to find another answer. 2-3 weeks just not enough of a sample size, if he were playing well defensively and just not hitting RS could get away w/ that but so far he's been poor on both sides.
     

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