We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.



    First off - Slomag, you are correct on his years in AAA - thanks. And although Lars Anderson had good numbers, he has never been as highly rated as Montero.

    Let's look at all the talking points for a moment as I am not suggesting that Montero alone with some fill-ins get it done. I don't know if Seattle is in budget mode right now. My conversation here is based on that being true. If it is not, then this is just conversation for fun. And I went with it since the thread revolved around King Felix.


    Hernandez is scheduled to make $18 mil next year and by 2014, it is up to $20 million. That is a large chunk of Seattle's budget, especially in light of Ichiro @ 17 million next year as well. Montero may very well place out to be only a DH. But A DH who is only 21 and at minimum salary is not hard to overlook, especially what most think he will do in the Majors. .300, 30 + , 100 +

    I also stated Betances and Hughes. Hughes does have to prove himself again, but he was an all-star. And Betances is still a year away, but a highly rated prospect. This it is not an unfair offer, IMHO. Maybe there needs to be some tweaking.

    Now I am not saying that Seattle would make such a deal, but if both teams were so inclined, it certainly is a good starting point.

    As to the other players you mentioned, not really following. if you are talking about straight up trades, I have to agree with you. But, if you look at what Boston gave up for Gonzalez, an everyday GG 1B, I it was a whole lot less than this. So anything is in the realm of possibility.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    In Response to We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer. : I would trade Felix for Beckett straight up for one reason.  I don't feel Josh would be the same pitcher without Tek, unless he can gain enough confidence to pitch his own game.  Thats the kind of talent it would take to get Felix and I don't think we have it to give away.
    Posted by craze4sox


    There is no way in the world that Seattle would take Beckett for Hernandez. Why would they??? The Sox would have to come up with some more young talent to even get Seattle to listen
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    First off - Slomag, you are correct on his years in AAA - thanks. And although Lars Anderson had good numbers, he has never been as highly rated as Montero. Let's look at all the talking points for a moment as I am not suggesting that Montero alone with some fill-ins get it done. I don't know if Seattle is in budget mode right now. My conversation here is based on that being true. If it is not, then this is just conversation for fun. And I went with it since the thread revolved around King Felix. Hernandez is scheduled to make $18 mil next year and by 2014, it is up to $20 million. That is a large chunk of Seattle's budget, especially in light of Ichiro @ 17 million next year as well. Montero may very well place out to be only a DH. But A DH who is only 21 and at minimum salary is not hard to overlook, especially what most think he will do in the Majors. .300, 30 + , 100 + I also stated Betances and Hughes. Hughes does have to prove himself again, but he was an all-star. And Betances is still a year away, but a highly rated prospect. This it is not an unfair offer, IMHO. Maybe there needs to be some tweaking. Now I am not saying that Seattle would make such a deal, but if both teams were so inclined, it certainly is a good starting point. As to the other players you mentioned, not really following. if you are talking about straight up trades, I have to agree with you. But, if you look at what Boston gave up for Gonzalez, an everyday GG 1B, I it was a whole lot less than this. So anything is in the realm of possibility.
    Posted by jesseyeric


    Anderson was as high as #17 in the BA top 100 in 2009 - one slot below Mike Stanton.  That's not as high as Montero's #3, but it's pretty significant.  Montero's drop-off was not nearly as dramatic as Anderson's, but it was a drop-off at a time when he was expected to improve.  Betances, too, was unable to take a step forward this year.  I'm sorry, but I don't see Montero, Hughes & Betances even opening the door to Felix Hernandez.  In my scenario, Gardner or Nova (whose stock has gone way up) would be the centerpiece with Montero and Betances the complements.

    Yes, the Sox landed Gonzalez for less, but that was primarily because he had only one year of control left (Hernandez has three), and he had stated publicly there would be no home-town discounts.  Seattle isn't really a small market - if they think Felix is the key to their long-term success, I expect they will spend money to keep him.  


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    i think rather than trading our whole minor league system for hernandez, we should trade ellsbury. If we could work out a trade involving franklin gutierrez and hernandez that would be best case scenario. We would send them ellsbury, ranuado, and perhaps a few more b level spects. I really think a deal like that could work for both teams. Seattle adds offense which they really need and get another potential front end starter to go with the young guys they already have. The sox get their ace and really good defensive and good offensively right handed hitting centerfielder. So the line up would be:

    crawford
    pedroia
    gonzalezh
    youk
    ortiz
    guitierrez
    salty/lavarnway
    iglesias/scutaro

    not sure who the right fielder of the future will be. I am not sold on kalish or reddick. I think we really need an impact bat in right. The rotation would hands down be the best in the AL and rival that of the phillies:

    beckett
    hernandez
    lester
    buchholz
    lackey (yes we are stuck with him)

    Much better looking team, especially if we can add an impact bat in rightfield. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    Except for onne thing Slomag, Hernandez may have 3 years to go on his existing contract, but at a very heavy cost. So teams that can play with Seattle on such a deal are limited.

    Personally, I never think such a deal happens. Seattle has to build around King Felix.  But we are talking in the world of speculation and just passing along an opinion.

    And I really do enjoy the conversation. Thanks
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tc25. Show tc25's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    Lackey for Felix straight up. Get it done, Theo.
    Posted by LloydDobler

    Lloyd, this does not sound like you, please refill your meds
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bugmenotscreen. Show bugmenotscreen's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    In Response to We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer. : I would trade Felix for Beckett straight up for one reason.  I don't feel Josh would be the same pitcher without Tek, unless he can gain enough confidence to pitch his own game.  Thats the kind of talent it would take to get Felix and I don't think we have it to give away.
    Posted by craze4sox


    Hahahaha this is the best post I've ever seen.

    Such sound logic and reasoning here, how could Seattle ever say no to such a wonderful proposal!? Why, they might even do a Lackey for the rest of their club deal with that kind of deal out there.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer. : Are u nuts? Ells for Felix would be too much! Trade the possible MVP of the league and our most productive guy for Hernandez? That's insanity.
    Posted by Alibiike

    For years this forum has featured frequent threads suggesting that the Red Sox should pursue a trede for Felix Hernandez.

    I can't remember Jacoby Ellsbury being mentioned on a corresponding Seattle forum as a potential trade target for the hitting-starved Mariners.

    http://forums.seattletimes.nwsource.com/forums/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&keywords=ellsbury&fid%5B%5D=22&start=30

    The 28-year-old Ellsbury posted his outlier 9.4 WAR* this season while the 25-year-old Hernandez posted a WAR of 5.5 (his lowest in three seasons). Ellsbury has been valued at 16.1 WAR over the past four seasons while Hernandez has been valued at 22.2 WAR.

    The proposed trade likely falls outside the realm of possibility.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    Except for onne thing Slomag, Hernandez may have 3 years to go on his existing contract, but at a very heavy cost. So teams that can play with Seattle on such a deal are limited. Personally, I never think such a deal happens. Seattle has to build around King Felix.  But we are talking in the world of speculation and just passing along an opinion. And I really do enjoy the conversation. Thanks
    Posted by jesseyeric


    Actually there are more teams than you might think that would and could pony up the cash to pay for Hernandez too include the Yanks, Mets, Phillies, Cubs, White Sox, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers (after the sale), Detriot, Texas and any team that sees him as the missing link to contend...

    End of the day the M's are in no hurry to move him and they already turned down and offer from the Sox that would've included both Buccholz and Bard along with the pick of the litter down on the farm not named Westmoreland. I am certain that in his due diligence Cashman will inquire and according to reports did just that and the answer he got back was any deal had too include Robinson Cano as the center piece...That's the only type of hitter that will pry him loose in the near term...Frankly though I doubt it, I wouldn't be surprised if the M's are in on Fielder and/or Ortiz this offseason...they have that kind of funds and aside from figgins they don't have any players under contract that would qualify as a salary dump...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    youk and crawford -  we pay 35% of his salary /CC
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    End of the day the M's are in no hurry to move him and they already turned down and offer from the Sox that would've included both Buccholz and Bard along with the pick of the litter down on the farm not named Westmoreland.
    Posted by Beantowne

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    If Seattle is going to be overwhelmed start with an MVP finalist like Ellsbury and Buch. That's as far as I would go. If we went further I would like to see Furbush come back to New England with possibly Figgins, as a salary dump. So--Ells, Buch and a prospect for Felix, Furbush and Figgins. Ells and Buch for Felix is the main event. Furbush looked solid as a Lefty reliever with the Tigers--the M's have tried to make him a starter--he has had TJ surgery already. Figgins could be a nice leadoff or #2 behind CC.
    Posted by MadMc44


    Unless Felix can steal bases and bat over .300 I don't think the Sox put Ells on the market.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    Lackey for Felix straight up. Get it done, Theo.
    Posted by LloydDobler


    Good one lloyd
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer. : Actually there are more teams than you might think that would and could pony up the cash to pay for Hernandez too include the Yanks, Mets, Phillies, Cubs, White Sox, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers (after the sale), Detriot, Texas and any team that sees him as the missing link to contend... End of the day the M's are in no hurry to move him and they already turned down and offer from the Sox that would've included both Buccholz and Bard along with the pick of the litter down on the farm not named Westmoreland. I am certain that in his due diligence Cashman will inquire and according to reports did just that and the answer he got back was any deal had too include Robinson Cano as the center piece...That's the only type of hitter that will pry him loose in the near term...Frankly though I doubt it, I wouldn't be surprised if the M's are in on Fielder and/or Ortiz this offseason...they have that kind of funds and aside from figgins they don't have any players under contract that would qualify as a salary dump...
    Posted by Beantowne


    I agree BT. Seattle having a strong franchise is good for the Western Conference. Now hopefully MLB will do something about the Tampa situation. That franchise is just not sustainable past this current decade.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    In Response to We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer. : I would trade Felix for Beckett straight up for one reason.  I don't feel Josh would be the same pitcher without Tek, unless he can gain enough confidence to pitch his own game.  Thats the kind of talent it would take to get Felix and I don't think we have it to give away.
    Posted by craze4sox


    Has Felix ever led his team to a WS, or won one?  I think looking at both regular season and PS numbers gives the advantage to Josh as a better pitcher.  Felix is a good young pitcher but people make him sound like Verlander, Halladay or Lee.

    If Felix eventually proves he can be as effective behind a better offense I may change my mind but my bet is Beckett is as good or better.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer. : http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009591133_mariners_turned_down_three-way.html
    Posted by hill55


    Now that would've been the deal of the century...if they could've pulled that off...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer. : Has Felix ever led his team to a WS, or won one?  I think looking at both regular season and PS numbers gives the advantage to Josh as a better pitcher.  Felix is a good young pitcher but people make him sound like Verlander, Halladay or Lee. If Felix eventually proves he can be as effective behind a better offense I may change my mind but my bet is Beckett is as good or better.
    Posted by craze4sox

    Over the past three seasons:
    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspxpos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2009&ind=0
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hambonawilliams. Show hambonawilliams's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    Have them back up the truck and give them beckett, lackey, bucholz, fat papi, nasty youk and wakey-wakey, plus $20 million sweetner for King felix...LMAO..oh yeah, and the lifetime supply of beer goes along with our truckload...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    Ellsbury, Weiland & Lackey for Hernandez & Figgins
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.



    STUPID!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    Maybe Josh Johnson is a more attainable target - he's only got two years of control left, and he's making about a quarter of the Marlin's team salary.  Anybody think we could get him for say Reddick, Iglesias & Weiland?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer. : Has Felix ever led his team to a WS, or won one?  I think looking at both regular season and PS numbers gives the advantage to Josh as a better pitcher.  Felix is a good young pitcher but people make him sound like Verlander, Halladay or Lee. If Felix eventually proves he can be as effective behind a better offense I may change my mind but my bet is Beckett is as good or better.
    Posted by craze4sox


    Nolan Ryan never lead any team to a World Series.  (His 2.1 IP in the 1969 World Series don't count as leading.)

    Jose Rijo did pitch a team to the World Series victory, and even won a World Series MVP.

    By your logic, Jose Rijo was a better pitcher than Nolan Ryan....
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.

    In Response to Re: We need Felix Hernandez; Seattle needs offense-make your best offer.:
    Except for onne thing Slomag, Hernandez may have 3 years to go on his existing contract, but at a very heavy cost. So teams that can play with Seattle on such a deal are limited. Personally, I never think such a deal happens. Seattle has to build around King Felix.  But we are talking in the world of speculation and just passing along an opinion. And I really do enjoy the conversation. Thanks
    Posted by jesseyeric


    Why does everyone assume that Seattle did not take into account their team budget when extending Hernandez?  Don't you think think the budget came up at some point when they were wrokng on the terms?
     
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