we won't like .................it but he's right

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    Unfortunately he is right...That would open up a can of worms that would never close...

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    No, it really isnt that slippery. But like it was stated. Doing that will have everybody knocking down his door to change a number of other stats.

    I know your a yankee fan zac, but Im totally disgusted when I hear them announce the A-Rod has passed yet another legend of this game, including past yankee greats, with his HR totals. Your thoughts?  At least Jeter did it the right way and i have great respect for his achievements...

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    I understand your points zac.

    The old-school baseball fan in me sticks to my original statement, but the realist baseball fan in me cant help but agree somewhat with your side.

    Hitters took it for an advantage, then pitchers to keep up with the hitters and so on and so forth. I was, for the most part and even playing field at one point.

    I too dont let it ruin the game for me, and maybe disgusted was a bit too harsh of a word. But you understand.

    Guys like Mike Greenwell, who wouldve won the MVP one year if it werent for Conseco and Mcguire standing with the Maris family knowing he was lying. Aaron not acknowledging records and so on. That will always bother me a little...

    I dont think it was right and I see it as cheating...But on some level, I understand.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:

    there's a couple of versions out there of this read

    it's not the one I wanted but close enough

     I think you have an open mind 777

    so if you haven't read this B4 please do

    and let me know if it doesn't make you go Hmmm

     

     

    http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/08/29/does-this-prove-that-hank-aaron-was-juicing/

     

    thanks Zac, good read...does give you pause, but i still fall on the side of BOTD it's not like Aaron's numbers were insane over other sluggers..


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    awwww.  come on bud.  i was hoping to get the AL 2003 Pennant unfurled at the Fens.

    see:  2 ALCS game 7 giambi HR's that scraped the wall.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from modod. Show modod's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    I really hate revisionist history and guilt by association that occurs in PED discussions. Let's reexamine all of the HOF members and see if anywhere in their records there is a blip that may indicate substance use. Who needs real evidence? We can run try and convict them in the court of public opinion. After TW's down year maybe he decided to try chemical enhancement. I mean how else could he have hit that last HR in his last AB without chemical assistance. 

    Sorry, I need a positive test before casting doubt. No testing back then? Then no guilt. IIRC, baseball didn't ban these things until well after Aaron retired. If it wasn't against the rules, what's the point? Unless it's just the desire to tear down reputations. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    I'm not a big Selig fan but he is right. Messing with records at this point can only do more harm than good.

    I've read the articles on the House quotes and the suspisions that Aaron juiced. It's no secret that some players have always looked for an edge. Amphetamine use in the 60's and 70's. Cocaine in the 80's. Steroids for a generation or more, apparently with the trend continuing today. Is anyone really surprised?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

     

    I've been saying similar stuff for years.

     

    There is no way to straighten out the records, and no reason to worry about them.

     

    The game has changed so much in the past 150 years, why do the Powers That Be like to pretend steroids are the only thing that impacted the game in that entire time?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:

     

    there's a couple of versions out there of this read

    it's not the one I wanted but close enough

     I think you have an open mind 777

    so if you haven't read this B4 please do

    and let me know if it doesn't make you go Hmmm

     

     

    http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/08/29/does-this-prove-that-hank-aaron-was-juicing/

     




    Good read, but like jete, I dont think HA numbers were crazy off the charts like Bonds or Mcgwire...Then again, they're probably better than they were then. Either way, its a good discussion IMO.

    My bottom line is if you get caught, it shouldnt count. obviously. If somehow you get away with it, well....

    But thats where guys like Canseco will come out and rat everyone out. Some will be pzzd off that their numbers were no good, but this guy and that guy who were taking them, their numbers are good, and the whole thing will start over again. If MLB just allows everyones stats, tainted or not, than nobody can complain and hopefully the whole thing just "goes away"...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    In response to modod's comment:

    I really hate revisionist history and guilt by association that occurs in PED discussions. Let's reexamine all of the HOF members and see if anywhere in their records there is a blip that may indicate substance use. Who needs real evidence? We can run try and convict them in the court of public opinion. After TW's down year maybe he decided to try chemical enhancement. I mean how else could he have hit that last HR in his last AB without chemical assistance. 

    Sorry, I need a positive test before casting doubt. No testing back then? Then no guilt. IIRC, baseball didn't ban these things until well after Aaron retired. If it wasn't against the rules, what's the point? Unless it's just the desire to tear down reputations. 

     




     

    Excellent point.

    Aaron belongs nowhere near this conversation there is no evidence he cheated.

    The problem with the current mess is there is no end in sight.

    Until every player is tested routinely before, during the regular season and in the post season that means both blood and urine samples it continues.

    And this continues on Bud's watch.

    Because players are being caught doen't mean it has been fixed, it means it continues.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    My overall position of this is the same as it was some time ago when I posted something like this:

    I believe that the poo-bahs of MLB should get together and designate a certain period of time as "The steroid era".  My personal thought is that it should be the decade from 2001-2010 but I'd be open for discussion on that. 

    They should then go to the record books and add an asterisk to everything that happened during that time with a footnote of, "This was accomplished during the steriod era.  Use of Performance Enhancing Drugs may (or may not) have contributed to this player's or team's ability to obtain this record." 

    This would pertain to EVERYTHING that happened during that time.  Batting  and HR titles, ERA titles, SB titles, WS championships,  EVERYTHING that happened during that time.  And yes, that pertains also to my personal favorite player of all time, Cal Ripken, whose consecutive game record was set in that time frame too. 

    Ther are players, the clean ones, who would object to that and that's ok with me that they object.  Baseball is a close-knit organization and I believe that every major player on every team knew or strongly suspected who was "using" and who wasn't during that time.  Those who knew and turned their heads aren't as guilty as the "users" but at the same time they share some guilt for what happened.  This would be their penance.

    As for the current things, stuff like Melky, these would be handled on a case-by-case basis but with the burden of proof being on the "using" player to prove that what he was taking didn't affect his performance, and IMO that would be a pretty hard thing to prove.  Yep, guilty until proven innocent for those guys, but this isn't a court of law.  Baseball and the Player's Association get to make the rules and those would be the rules... if I was "king".  :-))

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    In response to S5's comment:

    My overall position of this is the same as it was some time ago when I posted something like this:

    I believe that the poo-bahs of MLB should get together and designate a certain period of time as "The steroid era".  My personal thought is that it should be the decade from 2001-2010 but I'd be open for discussion on that. 

    They should then go to the record books and add an asterisk to everything that happened during that time with a footnote of, "This was accomplished during the steriod era.  Use of Performance Enhancing Drugs may (or may not) have contributed to this player's or team's ability to obtain this record." 

    This would pertain to EVERYTHING that happened during that time.  Batting  and HR titles, ERA titles, SB titles, WS championships,  EVERYTHING that happened during that time.  And yes, that pertains also to my personal favorite player of all time, Cal Ripken, whose consecutive game record was set in that time frame too. 

    Ther are players, the clean ones, who would object to that and that's ok with me that they object.  Baseball is a close-knit organization and I believe that every major player on every team knew or strongly suspected who was "using" and who wasn't during that time.  Those who knew and turned their heads aren't as guilty as the "users" but at the same time they share some guilt for what happened.  This would be their penance.

    As for the current things, stuff like Melky, these would be handled on a case-by-case basis but with the burden of proof being on the "using" player to prove that what he was taking didn't affect his performance, and IMO that would be a pretty hard thing to prove.  Yep, guilty until proven innocent for those guys, but this isn't a court of law.  Baseball and the Player's Association get to make the rules and those would be the rules... if I was "king".  :-))

     

     

     




    2001-2010?

    How did you arrive at those numbers?

    So you think it's over in light of Braun, Melky Cabrera and the rest caught since?

    It's hardly over.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to S5's comment:

    My overall position of this is the same as it was some time ago when I posted something like this:

    I believe that the poo-bahs of MLB should get together and designate a certain period of time as "The steroid era".  My personal thought is that it should be the decade from 2001-2010 but I'd be open for discussion on that. 

    They should then go to the record books and add an asterisk to everything that happened during that time with a footnote of, "This was accomplished during the steriod era.  Use of Performance Enhancing Drugs may (or may not) have contributed to this player's or team's ability to obtain this record." 

    This would pertain to EVERYTHING that happened during that time.  Batting  and HR titles, ERA titles, SB titles, WS championships,  EVERYTHING that happened during that time.  And yes, that pertains also to my personal favorite player of all time, Cal Ripken, whose consecutive game record was set in that time frame too. 

    Ther are players, the clean ones, who would object to that and that's ok with me that they object.  Baseball is a close-knit organization and I believe that every major player on every team knew or strongly suspected who was "using" and who wasn't during that time.  Those who knew and turned their heads aren't as guilty as the "users" but at the same time they share some guilt for what happened.  This would be their penance.

    As for the current things, stuff like Melky, these would be handled on a case-by-case basis but with the burden of proof being on the "using" player to prove that what he was taking didn't affect his performance, and IMO that would be a pretty hard thing to prove.  Yep, guilty until proven innocent for those guys, but this isn't a court of law.  Baseball and the Player's Association get to make the rules and those would be the rules... if I was "king".  :-))

     

     

     




    2001-2010?

    How did you arrive at those numbers?

    So you think it's over in light of Braun, Melky Cabrera and the rest caught since?

    It's hardly over.

     



    I never said my solution was perfect.  Few things are.

    Nope, I don't think it's over, but I do think it's more under control than it was and I don't think it's having as big an impact on the game as it did ten years ago. 

    As I said, I'd be open to changing the dates on it but I think the concept is right-on.  Baseball is a game of history and adding the asterisk would make people in the future more aware of what baseball was during that time period.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    As far as I know player urine/PED testing today is random.

    Are all players tested during the season? None of us know because they won't release that information.

    So it's possible certain players are never tested during the course of a season.

    As far as I know they pick names out of a hat.

    As far as HGH testing it isn't done. HGH does not show up in urine only in blood.

    Blood samples were taken once for the first time ever before this season to all players.

    That was over 5 months ago which means every player in the game could now be using HGH.

    This was going on before 2001 and continues today.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to S5's comment:

    My overall position of this is the same as it was some time ago when I posted something like this:

    I believe that the poo-bahs of MLB should get together and designate a certain period of time as "The steroid era".  My personal thought is that it should be the decade from 2001-2010 but I'd be open for discussion on that. 

    They should then go to the record books and add an asterisk to everything that happened during that time with a footnote of, "This was accomplished during the steriod era.  Use of Performance Enhancing Drugs may (or may not) have contributed to this player's or team's ability to obtain this record." 

    This would pertain to EVERYTHING that happened during that time.  Batting  and HR titles, ERA titles, SB titles, WS championships,  EVERYTHING that happened during that time.  And yes, that pertains also to my personal favorite player of all time, Cal Ripken, whose consecutive game record was set in that time frame too. 

    Ther are players, the clean ones, who would object to that and that's ok with me that they object.  Baseball is a close-knit organization and I believe that every major player on every team knew or strongly suspected who was "using" and who wasn't during that time.  Those who knew and turned their heads aren't as guilty as the "users" but at the same time they share some guilt for what happened.  This would be their penance.

    As for the current things, stuff like Melky, these would be handled on a case-by-case basis but with the burden of proof being on the "using" player to prove that what he was taking didn't affect his performance, and IMO that would be a pretty hard thing to prove.  Yep, guilty until proven innocent for those guys, but this isn't a court of law.  Baseball and the Player's Association get to make the rules and those would be the rules... if I was "king".  :-))

     

     

     




    2001-2010?

    How did you arrive at those numbers?

    So you think it's over in light of Braun, Melky Cabrera and the rest caught since?

    It's hardly over.

     



    I never said my solution was perfect.  Few things are.

    Nope, I don't think it's over, but I do think it's more under control than it was and I don't think it's having as big an impact on the game as it did ten years ago. 

    As I said, I'd be open to changing the dates on it but I think the concept is right-on.  Baseball is a game of history and adding the asterisk would make people in the future more aware of what baseball was during that time period.

     




    It remains out of control.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    As a Yankee fan I was not surprised to see Cano's name in the rumor mill because he is Dominican and spends his off seasons there.

    The amount of Dominicans caught cheating in recent years is astounding.

    There are less controls over the import and use of steroids then there is is in the USA.

    I am also a big fan of Track and Field. One cannot watch that sport and the high level of success of the Jamaican sprinters.

    The numbers just do not calculate. Yes I can accept one great sprinter from that tiny populace but not 2 or three from that small populace in comparison with the rest of the world.

    Something is cooking.

    One thing to always remember is that cheaters are always one step ahead.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    And I think that unless it's looked at in absolute terms, "out of control" is an overstatement.  The situation is better than it was but it's still in progress.   

    Are all players tested during the season? None of us know because they won't release that information.

    So it's possible certain players are never tested during the course of a season.

    As far as I know they pick names out of a hat.

    You're right in saying that we don't know because they won't release that information, but that doesn't mean that certain players aren't tested.  It also doesn't mean that they pick names out of a hat.  It also doesn't mean that each player isn't tested.  It just means that we don't know.  So let's not go jumping to negative conclusions here.  For all we "know" each player is tested every day and nearly all are coming up 'negative'. 

    As far as HGH testing it isn't done. HGH does not show up in urine only in blood.

    Blood samples were taken once for the first time ever before this season to all players.

    That was over 5 months ago which means every player in the game could now be using HGH.

    It's possible that every plaeyr in the game is using HGH.  It's also possible that a bird will come flying through my window and stick is beak through my eye and into my brain preventing me from finishing this post, but I don't think that's going to happen (either).  My point in my smarmyness is to say that just because something is possible doesn't mean it's happening.

    HGH testing is happening and when it gets perfected some players will again try to find an "edge". The cat-and-mouse game will continue until all players have respect for the game and it's history - and while I'm generally an optimistic person, I don't think I'll see that in my lifetime.

    Maybe my "Steroid era" will continue until 2020 or beyond, I don't know, but again I think the premise of identifying it is right. 

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    In response to S5's comment:

    And I think that unless it's looked at in absolute terms, "out of control" is an overstatement.  The situation is better than it was but it's still in progress.   

    Are all players tested during the season? None of us know because they won't release that information.

    So it's possible certain players are never tested during the course of a season.

    As far as I know they pick names out of a hat.

    You're right in saying that we don't know because they won't release that information, but that doesn't mean that certain players aren't tested.  It also doesn't mean that they pick names out of a hat.  It also doesn't mean that each player isn't tested.  It just means that we don't know.  So let's not go jumping to negative conclusions here.  For all we "know" each player is tested every day and nearly all are coming up 'negative'. 

    As far as HGH testing it isn't done. HGH does not show up in urine only in blood.

    Blood samples were taken once for the first time ever before this season to all players.

    That was over 5 months ago which means every player in the game could now be using HGH.

    It's possible that every plaeyr in the game is using HGH.  It's also possible that a bird will come flying through my window and stick is beak through my eye and into my brain preventing me from finishing this post, but I don't think that's going to happen (either).  My point in my smarmyness is to say that just because something is possible doesn't mean it's happening.

    HGH testing is happening and when it gets perfected some players will again try to find an "edge". The cat-and-mouse game will continue until all players have respect for the game and it's history - and while I'm generally an optimistic person, I don't think I'll see that in my lifetime.

    Maybe my "Steroid era" will continue until 2020 or beyond, I don't know, but again I think the premise of identifying it is right. 

     

     

     




     

    The 2011 NL MVP caught cheating the 2012 AS game MVP caught cheating.

    Wake up.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: we won't like .................it but he's right

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:

    CSNBayArea.com reports that suspended Giants outfielder Melky Cabrera has been ruled ineligible to win the National League batting title.
    The report says that Cabrera asked to be removed from consideration by having his representatives send a letter to union officials Wednesday. That's the same day commissioner Bud Selig said he likely wouldn't take action on the matter, but he decided to work out a one-time amendment with the Players’ Association that makes Cabrera ineligible. With Melky out of picture, Andrew McCutchen is now the favorite to win his first batting title

     

     

    good to hear

     




     

    VERY GOOD

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share