Webster or Doubront?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Webster or Doubront?

    the way allen webster has pitched during spring straining so far in my opinion warrents him getting a legitimate shot at the #5 spot in the rotation. Doubront was mediocre last year and should by no means guarantee him the #5 spot. Webster outside of buchholz has some of the best "stuff in the organization. If he continues to perform well throughout the rest of spring training, he deserves a chance to start. what do u guys think?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:

    the way allen webster has pitched during spring straining so far in my opinion warrents him getting a legitimate shot at the #5 spot in the rotation. Doubront was mediocre last year and should by no means guarantee him the #5 spot. Webster outside of buchholz has some of the best "stuff in the organization. If he continues to perform well throughout the rest of spring training, he deserves a chance to start. what do u guys think?



    He will likely get a shot if or when one of our SR goes down.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    A) Tazawa has the best stuff in the organization. bar none.

    B) Doobie pitched well enough last season that he deserves a long look in 2013.

    C) Webster (along with RDLR) is on an innings limit, so starting him in the MLB will only complicate things down the road when we shut him down and look for another pitcher to take his palce.

    D) Webster (along with RDLR) will get a cup of tea at some point this season. But they will not start the season in the MLB unless someone gets injured.

    E) even if someone does get injured there are probably at least 3-4 other pitchers who would get the starting nod ahead of them at this point. Due to the aforementioned innings limit.

     #6/7/8/9: Morales/Aceves/Wright/Mortenson/(Tazawa). not necessarily in that order. THEN RDLR & Webster probably.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    i never liked doubront that much..and for him to come in out of shape? i don't get him...i'd take wright over him right now...not sure if webster is ready...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Wedster is potentially special. Let's give him time to develop.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to mef429's comment:

    A) Tazawa has the best stuff in the organization. bar none.

    B) Doobie pitched well enough last season that he deserves a long look in 2013.

    C) Webster (along with RDLR) is on an innings limit, so starting him in the MLB will only complicate things down the road when we shut him down and look for another pitcher to take his palce.

    D) Webster (along with RDLR) will get a cup of tea at some point this season. But they will not start the season in the MLB unless someone gets injured.

    E) even if someone does get injured there are probably at least 3-4 other pitchers who would get the starting nod ahead of them at this point. Due to the aforementioned innings limit.

     #6/7/8/9: Morales/Aceves/Wright/Mortenson/(Tazawa). not necessarily in that order. THEN RDLR & Webster probably.



    or coffee ;)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Webster will start in AA, maybe AAA.

    Doubie had another 5 K's last night. Hes got great swing and miss stuff. I highly doubt just because some kid has a few good innings in ST that will be enough to take our #4 pitchers slot in the rotation.

    Everyone needs to ease up on these prospects. Just because they have a good spring doesnt mean they automatically should be in the starting rotation or line up. Its very encouraging and they have impressed, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. their time will come soon enough.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Allen Webster has over 200 innings in AA and has proved himself there.  He should start they season in Pawtucket, and if he continues his dominance be the first guy up to fill in.  It makes sense, it's non rushing, and it starts his clock a year longer.  I'm all for aggressive prospect promotions, (Bogaerts, 19 in Portland) but they should also not be rushed too fast and challenged at every level before they are advanced.

    Baring any injuries, I'd put money down on him starting in AAA.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    Allen Webster has over 200 innings in AA and has proved himself there.  He should start they season in Pawtucket, and if he continues his dominance be the first guy up to fill in.  It makes sense, it's non rushing, and it starts his clock a year longer.  I'm all for aggressive prospect promotions, (Bogaerts, 19 in Portland) but they should also not be rushed too fast and challenged at every level before they are advanced.

    Baring any injuries, I'd put money down on him starting in AAA.

     




     I looked at the projected lineup on soxprospects.com a couple weeks back and he was listed at AA...But now that I look again hes listed in AAA, which is where I figured he should be.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    I like Webster & Rubby (don't take your love to town)......  Doubbront ???  I always liked him, HOWEVAA he has a HISTORY.......  & reporting OUT OF SHAPE  in this day and age is just plain stupid and one/Ben has to wonder !!!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    A) Tazawa has the best stuff in the organization. bar none.

    One of the best for sure.

     

    B) Doobie pitched well enough last season that he deserves a long look in 2013.

    It was not as great as you and others think. His WHIP was bad.

     

    C) Webster (along with RDLR) is on an innings limit, so starting him in the MLB will only complicate things down the road when we shut him down and look for another pitcher to take his palce.

    The problem is, he will be getting innings in AAA that will limit how many MLB innings he can give us. It's too early to decide now, but if he's better than Doubront, why use up his innings in AAA?

     

    D) Webster (along with RDLR) will get a cup of tea at some point this season. But they will not start the season in the MLB unless someone gets injured.

    I agree, but that doesn't make it the right call.

     

    E) even if someone does get injured there are probably at least 3-4 other pitchers who would get the starting nod ahead of them at this point. Due to the aforementioned innings limit.

     #6/7/8/9: Morales/Aceves/Wright/Mortenson/(Tazawa). not necessarily in that order. THEN RDLR & Webster probably.

    I doubt Aceves starts, and I don't see themn stretching out Mortensen, so I do not think they will use him for anything more than a 3-4 innings start in a pinch. I do think Morales and Wright may be used before Webster or DLR- right or wrong.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    I like Webster & Rubby (don't take your love to town)......  Doubbront ???  I always liked him, HOWEVAA he has a HISTORY.......  & reporting OUT OF SHAPE  in this day and age is just plain stupid and one/Ben has to wonder !!!




    He looked good with 5 more K's last night in short work. He has the potential to be a 200+ K a year guy...Just needs to be more efficient.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Doubront.  I think y'all are kind of missing the ideal here.  When you have someone at 25 who has 1 K/IP, with a reasonable record, you're not looking to demote him.

    Thought for the day-Long-term planning.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    K's are over-rated.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    I think people are hoping with one full season under his belt, Doubront will make a jump this year and have better stuff.  I think Doubront can be a real solid #4,5 guy with maybe even a few #3 seasons.  I think some people get disappointed when a pitcher isn't an ace but there is real value In cost controlled guy who can anchor the back end of a rotation.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I think people are hoping with one full season under his belt, Doubront will make a jump this year and have better stuff.  I think Doubront can be a real solid #4,5 guy with maybe even a few #3 seasons.  I think some people get disappointed when a pitcher isn't an ace but there is real value In cost controlled guy who can anchor the back end of a rotation.  

    More reason to show up in SHAPE & be ready to go, Ya think ???


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    K's are over-rated.

     



    You need to take them in conjunction with the K/W, and GB/FB.  Together, they will give you a pretty good picture.  Doubront was #25 in the AL in K/W, ahead of fellow rookies Jerrod Parker, Jeremy Hellickson and Matt Moore.  It was his HR/FB that killed him, and that is supposed to be a stat that evens out.  The five rating sources for FG for 2013 average out to a 4.15 ERA and a FIP of 4.02.

    And his stats aren't really much different than either Lester or Buchholz this far into their career.

    We'd be crazy to take him out of the rotation.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    Allen Webster has over 200 innings in AA and has proved himself there.  He should start they season in Pawtucket, and if he continues his dominance be the first guy up to fill in.  It makes sense, it's non rushing, and it starts his clock a year longer.  I'm all for aggressive prospect promotions, (Bogaerts, 19 in Portland) but they should also not be rushed too fast and challenged at every level before they are advanced.

    Baring any injuries, I'd put money down on him starting in AAA.

     




     I looked at the projected lineup on soxprospects.com a couple weeks back and he was listed at AA...But now that I look again hes listed in AAA, which is where I figured he should be.

     



    Yes I saw that change too.  I think soxprospects is an excellent site too.   Like checking out the forums there as well.  They aren't as active or entertaining, but theres a lot of dialogue going on between guys who are actually at minor league games scouting these guys.  I see a window for Webster very early this year but I just see him starting in Pawtucket.  Although I'll be rooting for him wherever he plays.  I like this kid more and more every day.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I think people are hoping with one full season under his belt, Doubront will make a jump this year and have better stuff.  I think Doubront can be a real solid #4,5 guy with maybe even a few #3 seasons.  I think some people get disappointed when a pitcher isn't an ace but there is real value In cost controlled guy who can anchor the back end of a rotation.  



    Of course.  The whole basis behind long-term success is bringing in younger, cheaper guys to replace older, more expensive guys.  Absolutely no GM will think of choosing between Doubront and Webster this year, and choosing between Barnes and DLR next year.  If they are all capable, he will choose all four and trade Lackey and either Lester or Buchholz.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Yes, I guess I did state the obvious.  Although sadly it isn't obvious to all.  Although I would still like to see one veteran anchor down a rotation.  I can see a Lester or a Buccholz sticking around.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Doubront has good stuff , but he has not been able to consistently have command of it.  With Webster and De La Rosa coming on , Felix is definitely on the bubble. I would have Dempster on a short leash also.   We should not wait until we are 15 games out before making a move.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Yes, I guess I did state the obvious.  Although sadly it isn't obvious to all.  Although I would still like to see one veteran anchor down a rotation.  I can see a Lester or a Buccholz sticking around.  



    It should be interesting to watch guys like Taz, Webster, De La Rosa, Barnes and Doub fight for future slots.  It's a lot more than we have had in recent years but I agree, one veteran ace as an ancor would also be nice. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Doubront has good stuff , but he has not been able to consistently have command of it.  With Webster and De La Rosa coming on , Felix is definitely on the bubble. I would have Dempster on a short leash also.   We should not wait until we are 15 games out before making a move.



    Having good stuff but inconsistency with control can be the difference between an ace, and a back of the rotation starter.  It's or those very same reasons RDLR and Websters ceilings aren't higher than they are.  Keep in mind Doubont himself is very young.  Most elite pitchers will have good control at a younger age, but many other pitchers will slowly develop better command and pitch a few seasons of their career at a higher level.  A guy like Doubront ( just an example for arguments sake, not a projection) will likely be a #4,5 guy but I can see him having a season or two where he pitches like a #2 or #3.

     

    Also might I add that ther is almost always an injury or two.  All things considered without anyone being moved there will likely be a spot opened up for one of those guys this year.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Doubront has good stuff , but he has not been able to consistently have command of it.  With Webster and De La Rosa coming on , Felix is definitely on the bubble. I would have Dempster on a short leash also.   We should not wait until we are 15 games out before making a move.

     



    Having good stuff but inconsistency with control can be the difference between an ace, and a back of the rotation starter.  It's or those very same reasons RDLR and Websters ceilings aren't higher than they are.  Keep in mind Doubont himself is very young.  Most elite pitchers will have good control at a younger age, but many other pitchers will slowly develop better command and pitch a few seasons of their career at a higher level.  A guy like Doubront ( just an example for arguments sake, not a projection) will likely be a #4,5 guy but I can see him having a season or two where he pitches like a #2 or #3.

     

     

    Also might I add that ther is almost always an injury or two.  All things considered without anyone being moved there will likely be a spot opened up for one of those guys this year.



    And if the concern is about control, Doubront had a 2.36 K/W last year, in the pros.  Webster has a career 2.27, in the minors, which is probably one of the reasons why we aere able to acquire him in the first place.  DLR has a 2.30 in the minors.

    I'm not sure why this even needs to be mentioned, but if Webster and DLR have minor league walk rates of 3.8/9 and 4.0/9, what makes people think they will suddenly command the plate against major league hitters?

    Is the entire conjecture based on 8 IPs and 6 IPs, respectively?  Against lineups that might have not but minor league hitters on them?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Yeah it's a concern.  But the stuff is undoubtedly there,  I still think there is a really good chance one of those three (Barnes,Webster, DLR) end up in the bullpen.  RDLRis the stronger candidate, which I know is Blasphemy with his stuff that has been compare to an ace starter.  Frow what I gather he has a wider range between his ceiling and floor than Webster does. 

     

    This is the way I view it.  Rubby has the highest ceiling of any pitcher in our system, but may also be more likely to end up in the bullpen than a guy like Webster.  It's not unheard of for guys to improve their control and get better, actually it can be quite common.  But I think reflecting on these points is important because evey prospect becomes the shiny new toy and people expect them to jump right in and perform just as good if not better against ML lineups right away.  I just think that's a bit unrealistic, but it is possible.  

     
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