Webster or Doubront?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Yes I would think we can all agree that wherever he is, he needs to play full time.  I think people also automatically assume that just because a guy is "ready" he will play at a high level right away, and i think that just isn't true.  Sometimes guys are ready, have nothing more to do in the minors but actually spend a year adjusting.  JBJ may have a very so so 2013 and be an allstar by 2014, 2015.  And theres nothing wrong with that, but I think people get too excited and expect too much.

     

    Remember Clay Buccholz? everyone expected him to come up and be an ace right away, and when he didn't exactly pitch at that high of a level people wanted Bowden to come up and take his place. 

    I've contemplated that Ellsbury will be the one to go as well, but I think it could be one of the other guys as well.   I guess it all depends on how the team is doing, and what offers we get for what players. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    I already said this on this thread but over the course of the season one or more of the Red Sox starters will either fail or be injured. That is when We will see Webster and Rubby.

    I know it isn't as fun to talk about but it's the truth. The five starters are set in stone.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Yes I would think we can all agree that wherever he is, he needs to play full time.  I think people also automatically assume that just because a guy is "ready" he will play at a high level right away, and i think that just isn't true.  Sometimes guys are ready, have nothing more to do in the minors but actually spend a year adjusting.  JBJ may have a very so so 2013 and be an allstar by 2014, 2015.  And theres nothing wrong with that, but I think people get too excited and expect too much.

     

    Remember Clay Buccholz? everyone expected him to come up and be an ace right away, and when he didn't exactly pitch at that high of a level people wanted Bowden to come up and take his place. 

    I've contemplated that Ellsbury will be the one to go as well, but I think it could be one of the other guys as well.   I guess it all depends on how the team is doing, and what offers we get for what players. 



    I don't recall "everyone" thinking Buch would be an ace.

    On the OF issue, I think by the time JBJ can be called up without losing a year of control, the situation will be clearer, and the decision will be easier.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Well not everyone, but the expectations were too high....as I think they are now.  Of course this doesn't come without saying that I hope JBJ comes up quickly and starts playing at an exceptional level right off the bat.  In the mode of Will Middlebrooks 2012 (without the dl trip)

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Well not everyone, but the expectations were too high....as I think they are now.  Of course this doesn't come without saying that I hope JBJ comes up quickly and starts playing at an exceptional level right off the bat.  In the mode of Will Middlebrooks 2012 (without the dl trip)



    One good thing about JBJ is that even if he starts out slower than expected on offense, his great defense might make up for a big part of it.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    Well not everyone, but the expectations were too high....as I think they are now.  Of course this doesn't come without saying that I hope JBJ comes up quickly and starts playing at an exceptional level right off the bat.  In the mode of Will Middlebrooks 2012 (without the dl trip)

     



    One good thing about JBJ is that even if he starts out slower than expected on offense, his great defense might make up for a big part of it.

     



    Agreed, from everything I've heard and I'm sure what we've all heard plus what we have seen his Defense is elite MLB right now. 

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    His whip was bad.....so wasn't Jon Lester's, John Tudors,Bobby O'jedas's, Bruce Husrt's, and many,many other young left handed pitchers at similar stages and age in thier careers. You DO NOT give up on cheap left handers with plus stuff like he has too early. Are you kidding me. As a rookie.....he had One, One really tough 6 game stretch. Other than that, he was the teams most consistantent and best pitcher last year. Look it up...


    Not just lefties either.  There is no small list of pitchers that don't reach their potential as rookies. Price had a 4.42/1.348 in his first full year.  Felix Hernandez 4.52/1.335.  Sabathia 4.39/1.353.  Gio had a 6.24/1.704 after 132.2 IPs.  Cliff Lee with a 5.43/1.503 in his first full season.  Cueto 4.81/1.414.  Kershaw 4.26/1.495 in 107.2.  Chris Carpenter?  Ian kennedy?  Roy Halladay with a 5.77/1.710 after 231 IPs.

    The list is almost endless.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    His whip was bad.....so wasn't Jon Lester's, John Tudors,Bobby O'jedas's, Bruce Husrt's, and many,many other young left handed pitchers at similar stages and age in thier careers. You DO NOT give up on cheap left handers with plus stuff like he has too early. Are you kidding me. As a rookie.....he had One, One really tough 6 game stretch. Other than that, he was the teams most consistantent and best pitcher last year. Look it up...


    Not just lefties either.  There is no small list of pitchers that don't reach their potential as rookies. Price had a 4.42/1.348 in his first full year.  Felix Hernandez 4.52/1.335.  Sabathia 4.39/1.353.  Gio had a 6.24/1.704 after 132.2 IPs.  Cliff Lee with a 5.43/1.503 in his first full season.  Cueto 4.81/1.414.  Kershaw 4.26/1.495 in 107.2.  Chris Carpenter?  Ian kennedy?  Roy Halladay with a 5.77/1.710 after 231 IPs.

    The list is almost endless.



    I'm not writing Doubie off. He has some nasty stuff and could do real well in MLB someday- maybe even this year, but the list is much longer of promising pitchers who started with a WHIP of over 1.44 and never did much better.

    It's not so much about Doubie's skill set to me, it's about his attitude and questions about his drive to be the best he can be. I realize I could be wrong about his personality, but I'm a bit surprised at how so many posters here are quick to criticize players on other teams that are suggested as trade targets, but want to ignore the warning signs of our own- like Doubie.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Price had a 4.42/1.348 in his first full year.  He was 23 with just 1 year of professional ball under his belt before his first full year.

    Felix Hernandez 4.52/1.335.  He was only 20 for his first year and had just over 300 IP in the minors before 2006.

    Sabathia 4.39/1.353.  CC was 20 his first full season. He had under 250 IP in the minors- all but 5 below AAA.

    Gio had a 6.24/1.704 after 132.2 IPs.   His first full season was 2010 at age 24 (3.23  1.311) He did have an extensive minor league career beforehand though.

    Cueto 4.81/1.414.  He was 22 this year. He had about 360 IP in the minors beforehand.

    Kershaw 4.26/1.495 in 107.2.  Age 20. At age 21 he was 2.79/  1.23. He had about 220 IP on the farm.

    Felix has spent 7 years in the minors and had over 600 IP (275+ at AA or above). He also had 35 IP in the majors during the last 2 years of those first 7 years in pro ball. He was 24 and a half when he started his first full year of MLB. 

    I'm not sure the comparison to most of the pitchers you listed is really that fair.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    I got one for ya, moon...who was the last left-handed starter to have a better rookie season for the Red Sox than Doubront?

    (Note - I have no idea what the answer is.) 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    I got one for ya, moon...who was the last left-handed starter to have a better rookie season for the Red Sox than Doubront?

    (Note - I have no idea what the answer is.) 



    Good question. Here are some possible answers (fist full season- not sure if officially a rookie or not):

    1971 Bill Lee  9-2  2.74/1.45  (102 IP)

    1973 Roger Moret  13-2  3.17/1.311

    1982 John Tudor  13-10  3.63/1.40 (age 28-4th yr)

                              1980 8-5  3.02  1.213 (92 IP)

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    I got one for ya, moon...who was the last left-handed starter to have a better rookie season for the Red Sox than Doubront?

    (Note - I have no idea what the answer is.) 

     



    Good question. Here are some possible answers (fist full season- not sure if officially a rookie or not):

     

    1971 Bill Lee  9-2  2.74/1.45  (102 IP)

    1973 Roger Moret  13-2  3.17/1.311

    1982 John Tudor  13-10  3.63/1.40 (age 28-4th yr)

                              1980 8-5  3.02  1.213 (92 IP



    Technically, the only one of those that qualified for Rookie of the Year was Tudor in 1980.  If you pitched 50 innings or more in any previous season you're disqualified.  Also, Lee was mainly a reliever in 1971. 

    Doubront is actually in a very small category - a left-handed Red Sox starter who reached 150 innings in his official rookie season. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Price had a 4.42/1.348 in his first full year.  He was 23 with just 1 year of professional ball under his belt before his first full year.

    Felix Hernandez 4.52/1.335.  He was only 20 for his first year and had just over 300 IP in the minors before 2006.

    Sabathia 4.39/1.353.  CC was 20 his first full season. He had under 250 IP in the minors- all but 5 below AAA.

    Gio had a 6.24/1.704 after 132.2 IPs.   His first full season was 2010 at age 24 (3.23  1.311) He did have an extensive minor league career beforehand though.

    Cueto 4.81/1.414.  He was 22 this year. He had about 360 IP in the minors beforehand.

    Kershaw 4.26/1.495 in 107.2.  Age 20. At age 21 he was 2.79/  1.23. He had about 220 IP on the farm.

    Felix has spent 7 years in the minors and had over 600 IP (275+ at AA or above). He also had 35 IP in the majors during the last 2 years of those first 7 years in pro ball. He was 24 and a half when he started his first full year of MLB. 

    I'm not sure the comparison to most of the pitchers you listed is really that fair.



    I thought about that, and it isn't a direct comparison, it's more like improvement curve comparison.  I'm not expecting him to be the next Kershaw, but if you look at the improvement all those players made, some of the has to be attributed to experience, and some to aging.  You have to assume that Doubront will get stronger and smarter.  How much better than a 2.43 K/W does he need to get to move up to a #3, and beyond?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    I got one for ya, moon...who was the last left-handed starter to have a better rookie season for the Red Sox than Doubront?

    (Note - I have no idea what the answer is.) 

     



    Good question. Here are some possible answers (fist full season- not sure if officially a rookie or not):

     

    1971 Bill Lee  9-2  2.74/1.45  (102 IP)

    1973 Roger Moret  13-2  3.17/1.311

    1982 John Tudor  13-10  3.63/1.40 (age 28-4th yr)

                              1980 8-5  3.02  1.213 (92 IP)

     

     


    You obviously don't like Doubront, but are you saying he had the 2nd best rookie season for a Sox lefthanded starter in the last 40 years? Moret pitched half of his games as a reliever, so you can wipe him off the list. I'll give you Tudor.

    You don't think Doubront pitched well enough to be back as the 5th starter?  Young left handers who throw in the mid 90's don't grow on trees.  You worry that he didn't come to spring training with 6 pack abs, so you assume he has a questionable work ethic, yet you wanted to trade arguably the Sox most talented player (Ellsbury) for Trevor "trainwreck" Bauer?

    Just an opinion, but Doubront seems to be a classic example of a guy who pitched better last year than his final "stats" indicated. He walked 2 or less in 17 of his starts. If I were to bet, I would say he may regress a little bit this year because of the significant innings increase, but this kid has a lot of talent. There are a lot of young lefties who have struggled with command in their careers who have plaques in Cooperstown, so maybe we should give the kid the benefit of the doubt, and not be so concerned about a "WHIP" that was slightly inflated for the simple fact that the guy seemed to walked batters in bunches when he lost his command.

      I really don't see how you can be so down on a guy like Doubront, yet you would have given 90 million to a guy like Sanchez who has started 95 games over the last 3 years and has only 30 wins to show for it. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    I got one for ya, moon...who was the last left-handed starter to have a better rookie season for the Red Sox than Doubront?

    (Note - I have no idea what the answer is.) 

     



    Good question. Here are some possible answers (fist full season- not sure if officially a rookie or not):

     

    1971 Bill Lee  9-2  2.74/1.45  (102 IP)

    1973 Roger Moret  13-2  3.17/1.311

    1982 John Tudor  13-10  3.63/1.40 (age 28-4th yr)

                              1980 8-5  3.02  1.213 (92 IP)

     

     

     

     

     

    You obviously don't like Doubront, but are you saying he had the 2nd best rookie season for a Sox lefthanded starter in the last 40 years? Moret pitched half of his games as a reliever, so you can wipe him off the list. I'll give you Tudor.

    You don't think Doubront pitched well enough to be back as the 5th starter?  Young left handers who throw in the mid 90's don't grow on trees.  You worry that he didn't come to spring training with 6 pack abs, so you assume he has a questionable work ethic, yet you wanted to trade arguably the Sox most talented player (Ellsbury) for Trevor "trainwreck" Bauer?

    Just an opinion, but Doubront seems to be a classic example of a guy who pitched better last year than his final "stats" indicated. He walked 2 or less in 17 of his starts. If I were to bet, I would say he may regress a little bit this year because of the significant innings increase, but this kid has a lot of talent. There are a lot of young lefties who have struggled with command in their careers who have plaques in Cooperstown, so maybe we should give the kid the benefit of the doubt, and not be so concerned about a "WHIP" that was slightly inflated for the simple fact that the guy seemed to walked batters in bunches when he lost his command.

      I really don't see how you can be so down on a guy like Doubront, yet you would have given 90 million to a guy like Sanchez who has started 95 games over the last 3 years and has only 30 wins to show for it. 



    I could not have said it any better myself. Moon has been all over Doubie for awhile now. Suggesting he's lazy, questioning his work ethic, using his "whip" to point out that he just is not that good. To me, and it looks like to ALOT of other people ( as well as the RS front office I'm sure ) Felix Doubront certainly showed MORE than enough in stretches last year to think that he could become a pretty darn good pitcher for us. Would I trade him?Of course I would, just as I would anybody else on the roster if the right deal came along, but I would have to get blown away to trade Doubront ( or Webster, Barnes, RDLR, Tazawa, etc...) at this point. Our goal should be to stockpile as many young talented cost controlled pitchers as possible and hope 2or 3 of them blossom and become allstars....Moon needs to wave the white flag on this one I think...: )

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    I got one for ya, moon...who was the last left-handed starter to have a better rookie season for the Red Sox than Doubront?

    (Note - I have no idea what the answer is.) 

     



    Good question. Here are some possible answers (fist full season- not sure if officially a rookie or not):

     

    1971 Bill Lee  9-2  2.74/1.45  (102 IP)

    1973 Roger Moret  13-2  3.17/1.311

    1982 John Tudor  13-10  3.63/1.40 (age 28-4th yr)

                              1980 8-5  3.02  1.213 (92 IP)

     

     

     

     

     

    You obviously don't like Doubront, but are you saying he had the 2nd best rookie season for a Sox lefthanded starter in the last 40 years? Moret pitched half of his games as a reliever, so you can wipe him off the list. I'll give you Tudor.

    You don't think Doubront pitched well enough to be back as the 5th starter?  Young left handers who throw in the mid 90's don't grow on trees.  You worry that he didn't come to spring training with 6 pack abs, so you assume he has a questionable work ethic, yet you wanted to trade arguably the Sox most talented player (Ellsbury) for Trevor "trainwreck" Bauer?

    Just an opinion, but Doubront seems to be a classic example of a guy who pitched better last year than his final "stats" indicated. He walked 2 or less in 17 of his starts. If I were to bet, I would say he may regress a little bit this year because of the significant innings increase, but this kid has a lot of talent. There are a lot of young lefties who have struggled with command in their careers who have plaques in Cooperstown, so maybe we should give the kid the benefit of the doubt, and not be so concerned about a "WHIP" that was slightly inflated for the simple fact that the guy seemed to walked batters in bunches when he lost his command.

      I really don't see how you can be so down on a guy like Doubront, yet you would have given 90 million to a guy like Sanchez who has started 95 games over the last 3 years and has only 30 wins to show for it. 

     



    I could not have said it any better myself. Moon has been all over Doubie for awhile now. Suggesting he's lazy, questioning his work ethic, using his "whip" to point out that he just is not that good. To me, and it looks like to ALOT of other people ( as well as the RS front office I'm sure ) Felix Doubront certainly showed MORE than enough in stretches last year to think that he could become a pretty darn good pitcher for us. Would I trade him?Of course I would, just as I would anybody else on the roster if the right deal came along, but I would have to get blown away to trade Doubront ( or Webster, Barnes, RDLR, Tazawa, etc...) at this point. Our goal should be to stockpile as many young talented cost controlled pitchers as possible and hope 2or 3 of them blossom and become allstars....Moon needs to wave the white flag on this one I think...: )

     



    Nice post, Makonikyman...Maybe I'm a little biased because the kid pitched terrific in all four starts against the Yankees last year.  He walked 14 guys in 25 innings, which is a "WHIP" killer, but he pitched into the 7th in 3 of 4 starts, never giving up more than 3 runs.  In his other start, he pitched 6 and gave up one run.  Ironically, the only start against the Yankees where he gave up more than 2 runs, he only walked one guy.  He walked 5,5 and 3 in the other 3 starts and gave up only 4 runs in 19 innings. 

    He seems to have that "attiude" that you need to succeed, but might need to be harnessed a little bit. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Doubront has no options.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Price had a 4.42/1.348 in his first full year.  He was 23 with just 1 year of professional ball under his belt before his first full year.

    Felix Hernandez 4.52/1.335.  He was only 20 for his first year and had just over 300 IP in the minors before 2006.

    Sabathia 4.39/1.353.  CC was 20 his first full season. He had under 250 IP in the minors- all but 5 below AAA.

    Gio had a 6.24/1.704 after 132.2 IPs.   His first full season was 2010 at age 24 (3.23  1.311) He did have an extensive minor league career beforehand though.

    Cueto 4.81/1.414.  He was 22 this year. He had about 360 IP in the minors beforehand.

    Kershaw 4.26/1.495 in 107.2.  Age 20. At age 21 he was 2.79/  1.23. He had about 220 IP on the farm.

    Felix has spent 7 years in the minors and had over 600 IP (275+ at AA or above). He also had 35 IP in the majors during the last 2 years of those first 7 years in pro ball. He was 24 and a half when he started his first full year of MLB. 

    I'm not sure the comparison to most of the pitchers you listed is really that fair.

     



    I thought about that, and it isn't a direct comparison, it's more like improvement curve comparison.  I'm not expecting him to be the next Kershaw, but if you look at the improvement all those players made, some of the has to be attributed to experience, and some to aging.  You have to assume that Doubront will get stronger and smarter.  How much better than a 2.43 K/W does he need to get to move up to a #3, and beyond?

     



    K's are important for sure, but they are farther down on my list of valuable numbers than some posters here.

    If he can improve on the BB/9, he could be a gem. Several pitchers do just taht at and beyond his age and experience level, but it is not a sure bet. The K/rate does prove he has nasty stuff, but by itself, it might not mean much else. He has the potential to be a solid #2 or even a decent #1 type starter, if he can get the BB rate down.

    He's been in proball for 8 years. That doesn't mean his learning curve is complete, but I'm not sure you'll find a long list of pitchers who significantly improved in year 9 and above. I'm sure there are some, but there are many many more that did not.

    I'm really not trying to badmouth Doubie. I don't know enough about him to speak of his attitude, but the coming to camp out of shape in 2 of his first 3 years in the bigs is a bigger concern to me than many here.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    You obviously don't like Doubront,

    Wrong. I am just concerned more than you guys about his attitude.

    ...but are you saying he had the 2nd best rookie season for a Sox lefthanded starter in the last 40 years? Moret pitched half of his games as a reliever, so you can wipe him off the list. I'll give you Tudor.

    I'm not saying he's the second best or 4th best or whatever. I was just providing a list of some of the lefties I could think of. Judge for yourself.

    You don't think Doubront pitched well enough to be back as the 5th starter? 

    I never said that. I like Doubront better than Lackey and Dempster. I would not have signed Dempster. I think Doubront has a lot of value, and my idea was to packagae him with others to get better starter. I think many GMs value Felix very highly, but my concern about him coming to camp out of shape made me think it might be best to trade him now. I'm fine with him being our 4 or 5 starter this year. My issue has always been with the top of our rotation, and since we have several starters that seem like they could be fine #4-5 starters, I was hoping we could upgrade. To me, Doubront has the best trade value out of Lackey, Morales, Mortensen, Aceves, and maybe even Tazawa. With Webster and DLR in the wings, and this being a bridge year (don't kid yourself otherwise), I saw an opportunity to do better. Maybe you think there is nobody better than Doubront out there, but I think otherwise.

    Young left handers who throw in the mid 90's don't grow on trees.  You worry that he didn't come to spring training with 6 pack abs, so you assume he has a questionable work ethic, yet you wanted to trade arguably the Sox most talented player (Ellsbury) for Trevor "trainwreck" Bauer?

    Ellsbury will be gone after this bridge year. It's a totally different issue.

    Just an opinion, but Doubront seems to be a classic example of a guy who pitched better last year than his final "stats" indicated. 

    By listening to most posters here, I'd say he pitched worse than his 2012 numbers indicated, but then again 4.82/1.447 is pretty bad. (1.477 career and 1.714 in a tiny spring sample size this year.) I can imagine if I was saying we should trade a good Sox player for a pitcher who walked 4.o per 9 last year, you'd be bashing the idea.

    He walked 2 or less in 17 of his starts. If I were to bet, I would say he may regress a little bit this year because of the significant innings increase, but this kid has a lot of talent. There are a lot of young lefties who have struggled with command in their careers who have plaques in Cooperstown, so maybe we should give the kid the benefit of the doubt, and not be so concerned about a "WHIP" that was slightly inflated for the simple fact that the guy seemed to walked batters in bunches when he lost his command.

    WHIP has always been at the top of my list for pitchers- even higher than ERA. I'm not singling out a stat just to make a point.

      I really don't see how you can be so down on a guy like Doubront, yet you would have given 90 million to a guy like Sanchez who has started 95 games over the last 3 years and has only 30 wins to show for it. 

    My top plan was not to sign Sanchez. All I said was that I'd rather have spent $100M on Sanchez than on Victorino, Dempster, Ortiz, and Drew. He'd be here beyond 2015, and he'd fill a need we have had for 5 years. None of the guys we signed filled one of our biggest 2 weaknesses: top SP and steady clean-up hitter.

    If you'd rather have Dempster than Sanchez based on wins, then fine. Not me.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    He seems to have that "attiude" that you need to succeed, but might need to be harnessed a little bit.  

    I couldn't agree more, and maybe Pedro or someone else can wake and shake him up a bit like Clemens did with Schilling.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    Allen Webster reminds me of Seattle pitching prospect Brandon Maurer, another righthander born in 1990 and taken in the late rounds of the June 2008 draft.

    Compare the minor league numbers of Webster and Maurer, who have never pitched above the Double A level:

    AW 494 IP, 3.43 ERA, 1.37 WHIP, 8.5 K/9, 3.8 BB/9

    BM 371 IP, 3.57 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 8.4 K/9, 2.7 BB/9

    The numbers for Maurer, the Southern League's Most Outstanding Pitcher in 2012, include a rough stretch in the extreme hitter-friendly California League.

    Webster, who is six months older than Maurer, has certainly impressed this spring, but in their relatively meaningless small samples Webster has posted an ERA of 1.64 in 11 innings in Florida while Maurer has posted an ERA of 0.90 in 10 innings in the rarified Arizona air.

    Maurer generally is regarded as Seattle's fourth-ranked pitching prospect behind Taijuan Walker, Danny Hultzen and James Paxton.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to hill55's comment:

    Allen Webster reminds me of Seattle pitching prospect Brandon Maurer, another righthander born in 1990 and taken in the late rounds of the June 2008 draft.

    Compare the minor league numbers of Webster and Maurer, who have never pitched above the Double A level:

    AW 494 IP, 3.43 ERA, 1.37 WHIP, 8.5 K/9, 3.8 BB/9

    BM 371 IP, 3.57 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 8.4 K/9, 2.7 BB/9

    The numbers for Maurer, the Southern League's Most Outstanding Pitcher in 2012, include a rough stretch in the extreme hitter-friendly California League.

    Webster, who is six months older than Maurer, has certainly impressed this spring, but in their relatively meaningless small samples Webster has posted an ERA of 1.64 in 11 innings in Florida while Maurer has posted an ERA of 0.90 in 10 innings in the rarified Arizona air.

    Maurer generally is regarded as Seattle's fourth-ranked pitching prospect behind Taijuan Walker, Danny Hultzen and James Paxton.




    what i would give to pry one of those pitching prospects away from seattle :p

    i hate you hill!

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Webster or Doubront?

    In response to hill55's comment:

    Allen Webster reminds me of Seattle pitching prospect Brandon Maurer, another righthander born in 1990 and taken in the late rounds of the June 2008 draft.

    Compare the minor league numbers of Webster and Maurer, who have never pitched above the Double A level:

    AW 494 IP, 3.43 ERA, 1.37 WHIP, 8.5 K/9, 3.8 BB/9

    BM 371 IP, 3.57 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 8.4 K/9, 2.7 BB/9

    The numbers for Maurer, the Southern League's Most Outstanding Pitcher in 2012, include a rough stretch in the extreme hitter-friendly California League.

    Webster, who is six months older than Maurer, has certainly impressed this spring, but in their relatively meaningless small samples Webster has posted an ERA of 1.64 in 11 innings in Florida while Maurer has posted an ERA of 0.90 in 10 innings in the rarified Arizona air.

    Maurer generally is regarded as Seattle's fourth-ranked pitching prospect behind Taijuan Walker, Danny Hultzen and James Paxton.



    Being 4th behind those guys does not mean you can't still be a great pitcher someday.

    You are right about highlighting the 11 inning sample size.

     

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