Webster - what am I missing

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to southpaw777's comment:




    His "stuff" is good. Good movement, good separation with offspeed stuff. His problem is being able to control all those pitches and it starts with the FB. He also needs to learn, like hugh suggested, to be able to take a little off his FB and add some to it at times. He doesnt so much have anything to prove in AAA as he does to refine his control and consistency for MLB. Hes kind of a tweener right now. If he can get some more control, he could be a good 2-3 starter.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    no doubt when he's on he has some serious swing & miss stuff

    but a big part of pitching in mlb

    is what you can do when your 'A' stuff isn't there

     

    FWIW

    after a quick check the july 4 game that he did so good in

    was the only one lavernway caught him

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    Let's also not forget that one of Websters "bad" starts he was horrible in the 1st and actually was close to lights out afterwards.   He has the ability to get MLB hitters out, the talent level is there to be very good starting pitcher at the MLB level and that's more than most professional baseball players can say.  The consistency is not there, now there is no reason to assume that he will not become more consistent but lets also not assume he will.  hopefully this kid is back up here soon and contributing.  

    You either have the talent and you don't I guess is the moral of my story, and sometimes it takes time to shine on through.

    Anyone remember how many people wanted to throw Clay Buccholz under the bus because he couldn't put it together in his early career???? I'm not saying Websters going to be that good but I am saying that this is what happens to young players sometimes.

    Of couse at this point NO ONE (or at least very few of us) are suggesting that we just let him take his lumps in the rotation in the midst of a playoff run. BUT PLEASE can we learn from the past and not write this kid off yet??????????????????I feel like most of us are on the same page here but for those who aren't I have two words for you....

     

    "come oooooooooon" 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    p.s. if anyone gets the "come oooooooooon" reference you are my new favorite person. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    We all agreed he is not ready but who do you replace him with? Aceves the Sox are set on using him in spot starts or out of the BP. De La Rosa he has a throwing program that would limit innings and leverage. Britton just made it to AAA. Steve Wright? You have no other options at this point.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:




    His "stuff" is good. Good movement, good separation with offspeed stuff. His problem is being able to control all those pitches and it starts with the FB. He also needs to learn, like hugh suggested, to be able to take a little off his FB and add some to it at times. He doesnt so much have anything to prove in AAA as he does to refine his control and consistency for MLB. Hes kind of a tweener right now. If he can get some more control, he could be a good 2-3 starter.

     



    no doubt when he's on he has some serious swing & miss stuff

    but a big part of pitching in mlb

    is what you can do when your 'A' stuff isn't there

     

    FWIW

    after a quick check the july 4 game that he did so good in

    was the only one lavernway caught him

    [/QUOTE]


    Its not a surprise about the Lavarnway statement as hes been his catcher all year. Theres truth to a pitcher pitching better when hes more comfortable with his battery mate. Webster has a good relationship with Lav. Ive actually suggested that in another thread that Lav catch for webster.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    We all agreed he is not ready but who do you replace him with? Aceves the Sox are set on using him in spot starts or out of the BP. De La Rosa he has a throwing program that would limit innings and leverage. Britton just made it to AAA. Steve Wright? You have no other options at this point.


     The obvious option I see is to go out and make a trade for Garza, Lee, Shields, maybe even Hamels, who is pitching well recently, or someone from a team that's currently out of the playoffs. Webster can change speeds effectively but doesn't seem to have control of any of his pitches. The deer-in-the-headlights look isn't going to intimidate anyone either.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    why is Aceves not starting over Webster?

    As always - 100% correct!

     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to georom4's comment:

    why is Aceves not starting over Webster?

    As always - 100% correct!

     




    They want to give their future pitcher some work maybe. Just guessing here. I doint think Aceves is the future. Although I do understand where your coming from. I dont expect Webster to start Sunday and Ace tweaked something last night.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing


    This is a craftsman with no craftmanship ability. Seattle announcers, last night, were raving about his change-up. They know as much about pitching as my ex-wife. A change-up is not a pitch unless it'a change from something effective. His fast ball has no movement, no idea where it's headed and not much velocity. This guy will never NEVER be a major league pitcher. I don't think he'll even be effective in IIIA

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:


    This is a craftsman with no craftmanship ability. Seattle announcers, last night, were raving about his change-up. They know as much about pitching as my ex-wife. A change-up is not a pitch unless it'a change from something effective. His fast ball has no movement, no idea where it's headed and not much velocity. This guy will never NEVER be a major league pitcher. I don't think he'll even be effective in IIIA


    I wouldn't say NEVER about the kid but I'd certainly say not now.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    Was this thread copied over directly from our last Doubront thread?

    Just looks like mostly the same posts by the same posters just using the stanard 'replace' command.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Was this thread copied over directly from our last Doubront thread?

    Just looks like mostly the same posts by the same posters just using the stanard 'replace' command.



    It's a template fashioned from of the ADG template, which automatically produces a disgust thread header and OP for any Red Sox player in a funk.  After the player is selected, the threadbearer can choose a standard DFA headline or the rhetorical question headline such as, "What am I Missing?"  from the menu.  

    These thread templates have been proven very effective in generating posts and hits to the bdc website including a standard Pike rebuttal/response template drone disguised under numerous aliases.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to irish-sox-fan's comment:

    Okay, so hes young. But the kids looked absolutely atrocious in the big leagues. Maybe some day he'll have a fastball that isn't an arrow but right now he's nowhere close to being ready. Back down son.




    Try it someday and hopefully you will understand what your missing.?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

    Hes a work in progress. Not quite ready, but has shown some improvements. He''ll go back to AAA when Buch is back...

     

     



    He's probably headed back today. Would you start him another game? 7 HR in 26 IP. Fastball is as straight as an arrow. And really no improvements. ERA well over 9.

     

     

     



    Actually Webster has a fastball that has great movement on it, his problem is he can't spot it.  His change up is his best pitch but he can't set it up because he can't spot the fastball. It does seem like when he falls behind in the count that he tries to take something off his fastball when he gets desperate to locate it that it moves less and becomes more hittable.....but that happens to any pitcher that is having control problems.  

     

    Webster needs to go back down to Pawtucket and work on his command.  yes there is little he can actually "learn" there other than to stay more consistent with his fastball.  someone else mentioned that he has nothing to learn down in pawtucket because he dominates the hitters and that is partially true but when you look at Websters stats from start to start he will give up 5 walks in one start then 1 in the next.  He dominates both games in Pawtucket but up in the Majors big league hitters take advantage of that.

    If Webster had to learn on the fly in Boston he would likely be shaky from start to start with nights like tonight and others where he goes deep and is impressive.  We could deal with that if Buccholz was healhty and Lester was pitching great but now we can not handle that. 



    Respectfully disagree.  I love the kid.  I think the problem relates to nerves.  

    Yes, his command could be better.  But if command was the sole issue, he wouldnt have as much success in AAA as he's had.  If you can command in AAA , you should be able to command in Maj (same distance to home plate).  

    His best pitch is far and away his 96 MPH sinker.  I havent seen a pitch like it since NL Cy Young winner Brandon Webb.  It has potential to be the absolute best pitch in our entire organization (taking the #1 seed from Buchholz's two-seamer ).  IMO, the problem that he has is its just not sinking in the majors like it does in teh minors....Which is leading to him not being able to spot it.

    Maybe he's overthrowing it?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:


    This is a craftsman with no craftmanship ability. Seattle announcers, last night, were raving about his change-up. They know as much about pitching as my ex-wife. A change-up is not a pitch unless it'a change from something effective. His fast ball has no movement, no idea where it's headed and not much velocity. This guy will never NEVER be a major league pitcher. I don't think he'll even be effective in IIIA




    So apparently you know more than pro Baseball scouts, and everyone in the Sox organization about pitching? I understand youve watched baseball for a long time and I respect my elders, but I also will debate something when I think someone is totally off. its comments like this that show how little you actually know and an arrogance to think you know more than the professionals. His change up IS a plus pitch and his FB has a late drop like Derek Lowe did. Its a sinking FB.

    Webster is just a kid who is 23 and still working on adjustments. The statement you made "This guy will never NEVER be a major league pitcher. shows me you really dont understand the process of being an MLB pitcher or notice the difference between a good pitch and a bad one. This kid has 3-4 solid pitches and WILL be in this rotation at some point. Heres an article on some of the adjustments hes still making.

    http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/content/20130708-allen-webster-took-steps-in-the-right-direction.ece

    Also, heres what our scouting and development professionals have top say about him. Basically just the opposite of what your opinion is. Maybe its you that knows as much about pitching as your ex-wife...

    http://soxprospects.com/players/webster-allen.htm

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    Hes a work in progress. Not quite ready, but has shown some improvements. He''ll go back to AAA when Buch is back...

     

     

     



    He's probably headed back today. Would you start him another game? 7 HR in 26 IP. Fastball is as straight as an arrow. And really no improvements. ERA well over 9.

     

     

     

     

     



    Actually Webster has a fastball that has great movement on it, his problem is he can't spot it.  His change up is his best pitch but he can't set it up because he can't spot the fastball. It does seem like when he falls behind in the count that he tries to take something off his fastball when he gets desperate to locate it that it moves less and becomes more hittable.....but that happens to any pitcher that is having control problems.  

     

     

    Webster needs to go back down to Pawtucket and work on his command.  yes there is little he can actually "learn" there other than to stay more consistent with his fastball.  someone else mentioned that he has nothing to learn down in pawtucket because he dominates the hitters and that is partially true but when you look at Websters stats from start to start he will give up 5 walks in one start then 1 in the next.  He dominates both games in Pawtucket but up in the Majors big league hitters take advantage of that.

    If Webster had to learn on the fly in Boston he would likely be shaky from start to start with nights like tonight and others where he goes deep and is impressive.  We could deal with that if Buccholz was healhty and Lester was pitching great but now we can not handle that. 

     



    Respectfully disagree.  I love the kid.  I think the problem relates to nerves.  

     

    Yes, his command could be better.  But if command was the sole issue, he wouldnt have as much success in AAA as he's had.  If you can command in AAA , you should be able to command in Maj (same distance to home plate).  

    His best pitch is far and away his 96 MPH sinker.  I havent seen a pitch like it since NL Cy Young winner Brandon Webb.  It has potential to be the absolute best pitch in our entire organization (taking the #1 seed from Buchholz's two-seamer ).  IMO, the problem that he has is its just not sinking in the majors like it does in teh minors....Which is leading to him not being able to spot it.

    Maybe he's overthrowing it?




    Thats it though Drew, hes not dominating in AAA and has some control issues there. Just look at his BB totals. Hes NOT commanding great in AAA like you suggest. From all reports its not nerves. Hes made some adjustments pitching from the other side of the rubber and theres an adjustment period. Everyone says his confidence and the ability to forget quickly and move on is good. very good mental makeup.

    http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/content/20130708-allen-webster-took-steps-in-the-right-direction.ece

     
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