Webster - what am I missing

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Hes a work in progress. Not quite ready, but has shown some improvements. He''ll go back to AAA when Buch is back...

     



    He's probably headed back today. Would you start him another game? 7 HR in 26 IP. Fastball is as straight as an arrow. And really no improvements. ERA well over 9.

     



    Actually Webster has a fastball that has great movement on it, his problem is he can't spot it.  His change up is his best pitch but he can't set it up because he can't spot the fastball. It does seem like when he falls behind in the count that he tries to take something off his fastball when he gets desperate to locate it that it moves less and becomes more hittable.....but that happens to any pitcher that is having control problems.  

    Webster needs to go back down to Pawtucket and work on his command.  yes there is little he can actually "learn" there other than to stay more consistent with his fastball.  someone else mentioned that he has nothing to learn down in pawtucket because he dominates the hitters and that is partially true but when you look at Websters stats from start to start he will give up 5 walks in one start then 1 in the next.  He dominates both games in Pawtucket but up in the Majors big league hitters take advantage of that.

    If Webster had to learn on the fly in Boston he would likely be shaky from start to start with nights like tonight and others where he goes deep and is impressive.  We could deal with that if Buccholz was healhty and Lester was pitching great but now we can not handle that. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    What you're missing is that the team due to injury needs someone to step up and give them innings...What none of us are privy to are the conversations Webster is having with Farrel and Nieves. The kid has the tools to be a very good pitcher but needs to learn how to pitch at the big league level. He already has one of the key ingredients "stuff"". Not unlike most young pitchers he dosesn't have command of his secondary pitches And his fastball command is spotty too. Which until he learns to hit his spots with the fastbsll and refines his command on both his fastball and off speed pitches, he'll continue to get his hat handed to him at the big league level as a starter. 

    Regarding his confidence and the cause and effect that his struggles might impede his development and or render him a lost soul. That's on him and if the kid has moixy? He'll use this as a challenge to get better and head back to Pawtucket and work hard. Then when the time comes and he's given another shot. Shows that he has the ability and the drive to pick himself up after struggling. A valuable lesson that all prospects must learn. Because at the end of the day baseball is game where success is measured by a players ability to overcome failure. Pete Rose had 4000 hits in 14000 at bats. So he failed to produce in 10000 of his total at bats or 70% of the time.

    All that said, I do agree that it's time to send the kid down and let him finish the year in Pawtucket . 

    Moving forward, the time is now for the Sox to acquire some help given the injuries to Morales, Miller and Hanrahan. So they can use Aceves as a spot starter given the uncertain time table for Buccholz to return It might make sense for them to look at picking up a veteran starter too?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from thegrandsalami. Show thegrandsalami's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Hes a work in progress. Not quite ready, but has shown some improvements. He''ll go back to AAA when Buch is back...




    Has anyone have an update on Buch!?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to thegrandsalami's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Hes a work in progress. Not quite ready, but has shown some improvements. He''ll go back to AAA when Buch is back...

     




    Has anyone have an update on Buch!?

     



    He was placed on the D.L. late July so he can come off on the 22nd. He's been throwing so I'd expect him in a rehab game soon.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    The need to prove the trade was the right thing. Webster isn't ready for PrimeTime yet but he will be.

    It's been a plus that Holt is on board essentially for Sands and DeJesus.

    In addition Hanrahan had a couple of saves.

    Rubby will be another plus of the trade when he makes his appearance.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    It might be time to give RDLR a shot at the big leagues.  My only problem with Rubby is that he is on an innings limit.  However there is still room for him to make some contributions to the big league club but if he stuck he would have to be shut down at some point down the stretch.  In a perfect world a guy like Webster would be ready now....maybe he still can be by seasons end but right now it's obvious he is not. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing


    I am not sure that Webster can gain anything more down in Pawtucket, but that is irrelevant......the Sox can no longer afford to keep him in the rotation underperforming and we need every arm in the BP to be effrective also because we are thin there too. Hopefully Buch will be back soon and in the meantime Aceves fills the rotation spot....he clearly amps it up a little in a starting role as opposed to coming out of the Pen, so we should use that energy.....when Buch comes back after the break and if Aceves is pitching well, if Lester throws up another stinker or two, we may need to phantom DL Lester to see if we can figure out what is going on with his command.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to tomnev's comment:


    I am not sure that Webster can gain anything more down in Pawtucket, but that is irrelevant......the Sox can no longer afford to keep him in the rotation underperforming and we need every arm in the BP to be effrective also because we are thin there too. Hopefully Buch will be back soon and in the meantime Aceves fills the rotation spot....he clearly amps it up a little in a starting role as opposed to coming out of the Pen, so we should use that energy.....when Buch comes back after the break and if Aceves is pitching well, if Lester throws up another stinker or two, we may need to phantom DL Lester to see if we can figure out what is going on with his command.




    He can learn to be more consistent with his fastball.  When he doesn't take anything off of it it moves much better and it sells his offspeed pitches (which are very good).  You can't see any of that when a guy can't spot his fastball, that sets everything up.  A guy like Webster is bound to be a very hot/cold pitcher.  Looking like a pro one day and falls apart the next when he can't control his pitches.  Nothing wrong with a guy like that in the back of your rotation, only problem is he will stand out more when the front of your rotation is broken down.  The good news is if Webster makes some improvements in his command (and theres no reason to believe he can't at least a little) he will likely become that viable #3 #2 starter that scouts have slapped on him. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to thegrandsalami's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    Hes a work in progress. Not quite ready, but has shown some improvements. He''ll go back to AAA when Buch is back...

     

     




    Has anyone have an update on Buch!?

     

     



    He was placed on the D.L. late July so he can come off on the 22nd. He's been throwing so I'd expect him in a rehab game soon.

     


    From what I've read, he's been throwing on flat ground at either 60 or 90 feet. Before he goes in a rehab game, he will need to throw from 120 feet, throw from a mound a few times, and then in a rehab game.  Given those steps, he's probably 3-4 weeks away at best. The fact that there hasn't been any news over the last few days is a little concerning.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sundvl20. Show sundvl20's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    Kind of reminds me of Michael Bowden right now, but has a little more pop. Whereas I couldnt see Bowden ever being an asset at this level, think Webster has chance to be really good at some point

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    In response to thegrandsalami's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    Hes a work in progress. Not quite ready, but has shown some improvements. He''ll go back to AAA when Buch is back...

     

     




    Has anyone have an update on Buch!?

     

     



    He was placed on the D.L. late July so he can come off on the 22nd. He's been throwing so I'd expect him in a rehab game soon.

     

     


    From what I've read, he's been throwing on flat ground at either 60 or 90 feet. Before he goes in a rehab game, he will need to throw from 120 feet, throw from a mound a few times, and then in a rehab game.  Given those steps, he's probably 3-4 weeks away at best. The fact that there hasn't been any news over the last few days is a little concerning.

     



    Yeah I just looked that up and saw that too.....If there is anything to be optimistic about it is that he likley hurt himself from rolling around on the ground and it's not related to his arm/elbow/shoulder from pitching. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to irish-sox-fan's comment:

    I'm actually serious. What has he got? Because any positional player could pitch as well as this kid can!

    "When I die Dublin will be written in my heart." - James Joyce



    Why don't you back off your foolish comments. This kids a work in progress and the Sox need pitching right now. Unfortunately he's not ready but someday soon he might. Why don't you try out, you know so much. 

    Hetch

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    Allen Webster is Boston's version of Seattle's Brandon Maurer: a rigththander born in 1990, taken in the late rounds of the 2008 draft, who is struggling to establish himself at the MLB level:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/webstal01.shtml

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maurebr01.shtml

    As one poster mentioned, Webster has two quality starts among his six MLB starts this year. Maurer has four quality starts among his 10 MLB starts this season.

    Last season Webster and Maurer pitched in the Double A Southern League, where Maurer was named the Most Outstanding Pitcher.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    His last start he went 6IP 5H and 1 run...Hes just not quite ready. Im sure the sox didnt want to use him this much, but hes a good prospect.

    Hey Southy, Im not overly impressed so far with the kid. Im glad that Farrell decided to keep him in the rotation a few times around to give him some consistancy and a fair shot. Ive read all the reviews about how great his stuff is and all, but he is getting his butt whipped. He is just not ready, something is missing. They really need to get him down in the minors and work on things. And for those who forget, Roy Halladay was sent back to the minors more than once before he figured it out!

    Halladay

     Age 23 W-4 L-7   IP 67.2  H-104  BB-44  ERA-10.64  Whip 2.2   BAA .357

    Some times it take a year or two bouncing up and down.

    Chris Davis in Baltimore is a great example of a young player finally coming in to his own this year at age 27. For some reason it takes some players longer than other to mature. Papi is another great example after coming over from Minny. Some times all of the tools are there and it just takes a bit longer for young players to figure and out and some never do. 

    Hetch

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    His last start he went 6IP 5H and 1 run...Hes just not quite ready. Im sure the sox didnt want to use him this much, but hes a good prospect.

     




    Hey Southy, Im not overly impressed so far with the kid. Im glad that Farrell decided to keep him in the rotation a few times around to give him some consistancy and a fair shot. Ive read all the reviews about how great his stuff is and all, but he is getting his butt whipped. He is just not ready, something is missing. They really need to get him down in the minors and work on things. And for those who forget, Roy Halladay was sent back to the minors more than once before he figured it out!

     

    Halladay

     Age 23 W-4 L-7   IP 67.2  H-104  BB-44  ERA-10.64  Whip 2.2   BAA .357

     

    Some times it take a year or two bouncing up and down.

     




    Great observation. I still feel Webster has a bright future, but at the moment he's clearly not ready and it's time to try something else, be it Aceves, RDLR, or other.

    (Anthony Ranaudo has to be brought up to Pawtucket any time now...right? Scouts have described him this season as looking very close to major league-ready.)

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Promise4you2. Show Promise4you2's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    His last start he went 6IP 5H and 1 run...Hes just not quite ready. Im sure the sox didnt want to use him this much, but hes a good prospect.

     

     

    Hey Southy, Im not overly impressed so far with the kid. Im glad that Farrell decided to keep him in the rotation a few times around to give him some consistancy and a fair shot. Ive read all the reviews about how great his stuff is and all, but he is getting his butt whipped. He is just not ready, something is missing. They really need to get him down in the minors and work on things. And for those who forget, Roy Halladay was sent back to the minors more than once before he figured it out!

    Halladay

     Age 23 W-4 L-7   IP 67.2  H-104  BB-44  ERA-10.64  Whip 2.2   BAA .357

    Some times it take a year or two bouncing up and down.

     

     

    Chris Davis in Baltimore is a great example of a young player finally coming in to his own this year at age 27. For some reason it takes some players longer than other to mature. Papi is another great example after coming over from Minny. Some times all of the tools are there and it just takes a bit longer for young players to figure and out and some never do. 

    Hetch

     



    Hey Hetch, How's things? I nor can WE say he has great stuff! We have to believe what the scouts say. I believe the scouts and they say he has stuff, now he needs to get the stuff under control. I am not a believer in it can ruin him mentally. You either have it mentally or you don't. Sending him down wont hurt him mentally if he has it. I think he will be a ood one, just not ready yet.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Promise4you2. Show Promise4you2's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    His last start he went 6IP 5H and 1 run...Hes just not quite ready. Im sure the sox didnt want to use him this much, but hes a good prospect.

     




    Hey Southy, Im not overly impressed so far with the kid. Im glad that Farrell decided to keep him in the rotation a few times around to give him some consistancy and a fair shot. Ive read all the reviews about how great his stuff is and all, but he is getting his butt whipped. He is just not ready, something is missing. They really need to get him down in the minors and work on things. And for those who forget, Roy Halladay was sent back to the minors more than once before he figured it out!

     

    Halladay

     Age 23 W-4 L-7   IP 67.2  H-104  BB-44  ERA-10.64  Whip 2.2   BAA .357

     

    Some times it take a year or two bouncing up and down.

     

     




    Great observation. I still feel Webster has a bright future, but at the moment he's clearly not ready and it's time to try something else, be it Aceves, RDLR, or other.

     

    (Anthony Ranaudo has to be brought up to Pawtucket any time now...right? Scouts have described him this season as looking very close to major league-ready.)



    Agreed!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Archer1. Show Archer1's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    He is throwing a flat sinker right now that is staying up in the zone and hitters are crushing it. He needs to go back down and work on his command wih that pitch. That will be his bread and butter pitch if he is going to make it in The Show.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    His stuff is pretty good. His command is not. Cannot continue to run him out there. Can he figure it out at Pawtucket ? Who knows. But there is no other alternative right now. He has to be sent down.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    His stuff is pretty good. His command is not. Cannot continue to run him out there. Can he figure it out at Pawtucket ? Who knows. But there is no other alternative right now. He has to be sent down.

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    When a pitcher who has good stuff is flat it's either because he a.) is injured or b.) has poor command.  It's easy to look at Webster and say his stuff stinks, but it doesn't.  Webster might actually have some of the best pure stuff in the system but he is very hot/cold with his command.  It's easy for pitchers to flatten out when they lose command but it's never a stuff issue.  It's either injury related, or the guy is just having trouble repeating his mechanics.  With Webster he is having trouble repeating his mechanics

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

    Hes a work in progress. Not quite ready, but has shown some improvements. He''ll go back to AAA when Buch is back...

     

     



    He's probably headed back today. Would you start him another game? 7 HR in 26 IP. Fastball is as straight as an arrow. And really no improvements. ERA well over 9.

     

     

     




    No, I wouldnt start him again. I see progress in other things than numbers. You cant just look at the numbers with prospects. He still needs work and I doubt he has lost his confidence. He just needs to work on his control is all. Thats not unusual for a 23yr old. He'll be fine.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    Hes a work in progress. Not quite ready, but has shown some improvements. He''ll go back to AAA when Buch is back...

     

     

     




    His ERA is now 9.00.  How about we try someone else? 

     

     

     

     

     



    Not much "progress".

     

     

     




    You dont just look at numbers when evaluating prospects. His sinking FB was very good as far as movement. His change up was good too. His problem isnt confidence, Its control, which isnt unusual for a kid his age. Send him back to AAA and just let him keep going out there every 5 days. Just needs more reps to work on it, just not at the MLB level.

     

    By the way. his progress was very good his last start. 6IP, 5H, 1ER if you like just the numbers. Consistency and control of his pitches needs work.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to thegrandsalami's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

    Hes a work in progress. Not quite ready, but has shown some improvements. He''ll go back to AAA when Buch is back...

     

     




    Has anyone have an update on Buch!?

     

     

     



    He was placed on the D.L. late July so he can come off on the 22nd. He's been throwing so I'd expect him in a rehab game soon.

     




    rehab this weekend I believe

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Webster - what am I missing

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

     

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    His last start he went 6IP 5H and 1 run...Hes just not quite ready. Im sure the sox didnt want to use him this much, but hes a good prospect.

     




    Hey Southy, Im not overly impressed so far with the kid. Im glad that Farrell decided to keep him in the rotation a few times around to give him some consistancy and a fair shot. Ive read all the reviews about how great his stuff is and all, but he is getting his butt whipped. He is just not ready, something is missing. They really need to get him down in the minors and work on things. And for those who forget, Roy Halladay was sent back to the minors more than once before he figured it out!

     

    Halladay

     Age 23 W-4 L-7   IP 67.2  H-104  BB-44  ERA-10.64  Whip 2.2   BAA .357

     

    Some times it take a year or two bouncing up and down.

     

     

     

     




    Great observation. I still feel Webster has a bright future, but at the moment he's clearly not ready and it's time to try something else, be it Aceves, RDLR, or other.

     

     

     

    (Anthony Ranaudo has to be brought up to Pawtucket any time now...right? Scouts have described him this season as looking very close to major league-ready.)

     

     



    Agreed!

     

     

     




    His "stuff" is good. Good movement, good separation with offspeed stuff. His problem is being able to control all those pitches and it starts with the FB. He also needs to learn, like hugh suggested, to be able to take a little off his FB and add some to it at times. He doesnt so much have anything to prove in AAA as he does to refine his control and consistency for MLB. Hes kind of a tweener right now. If he can get some more control, he could be a good 2-3 starter.

     

     
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