Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    Sorry, but I feel like we have value shopped ourselves into Cleveland Indian level mediocrity. Dempster now? At over $13 mil a year? The same $13 mil a year they gave Victorin for God's sake? 

    I'm trying to stay positive but I don't think either player is worth $13 mil a year. If they win in 2013 Farrell should be a slam sunk for manager of the year.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sorry, but I feel like we have value shopped ourselves into Cleveland Indian level mediocrity. Dempster now? At over $13 mil a year? The same $13 mil a year they gave Victorin for God's sake? 

    I'm trying to stay positive but I don't think either player is worth $13 mil a year. If they win in 2013 Farrell should be a slam sunk for manager of the year.

    [/QUOTE]

    That is 26 mil a year. Could have had Hamilton for 25. Hard to figure.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    I have to agree. $26M/year would have got Hamilton, and we would have been better off with a platoon of spot starters (Morales, Tazawa, Rubby?) for the fifth position.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    They really wanted Vic because he is a GG RF and a GG CF.  That's a rare combo that is useful this year (RF defense is very important at Fenway) and will be useful next year after Ells prob walks for somewhere between 5/75 and 5/110 (depending on his 2013 season).

    Vic isnt all bad.  In 45 SB attempts last year, he only got caught 6 times.  I dont consider 32 to be old and that doesnt sound like an old man to me. 

    Vic hit 17+ HR in 2011 and 17+ HR in 2010.  Considering that he keeps himself in great shape, has a phenominal work ethic, and that his other skills (baserunning / defense) havent eroded at all, I find it much more likely that a broken hand caused his 2012 power anomolly than natural decline.

    15+ HR, .270 BA, elite RF defense, elite CF defense , elite baserunning intelligence, work ethic.  In this post steroid league, thats a borderline all-star.  Vic in 2013 is a better ballplayer than Johnny Damon in any of his Boston years.

    ...And while I would have preferred 1 yr for dempster, the dude does get a TON of swings and misses.  A TON!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    The only thing we did not need was a #4 or 5 starter..... we have 4 of those already. Another old veteran standing in the way has just been added to our terrible rotation.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The only thing we did not need was a #4 or 5 starter..... we have 4 of those already. Another old veteran standing in the way has just been added to our terrible rotation.

    [/QUOTE]


    He wont be in the way of anything.  Because it is only a 2 yr deal, they will not be shy to bench/trade him if a prospect emerges and he is the clear cut candidate to be removed from the rotation.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    I understand that they were just trying to put a good team on the field and didn't have a lot of realistic options without mortgaging their future by dealing prospects or paying big money long term deals. I'm just not happy about those lack of options!

    Drewski makes some good points about victorino's all around abilities though and he is a definite dirt dog. From looking at his hit charts he looks to improve in Fenway with some decent double and triple pop included in the solid defensive profile.

    He's a complementary talent. We need some studs to emerge and I think they can in a year or 2.

    Let's ne clear though. We don't win without some studs emerging. We are just like any other team now, in an era of reduced overslot signings and diminished FA opportunities.

    If we win it now it will be even more special though.

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I understand that they were just trying to put a good team on the field and didn't have a lot of realistic options without mortgaging their future by dealing prospects or paying big money long term deals. I'm just not happy about those lack of options!

    Drewski makes some good points about victorino's all around abilities though and he is a definite dirt dog. From looking at his hit charts he looks to improve in Fenway with some decent double and triple pop included in the solid defensive profile.

    He's a complementary talent. We need some studs to emerge and I think they can in a year or 2.

    Let's ne clear though. We don't win without some studs emerging. We are just like any other team now, in an era of reduced overslot signings and diminished FA opportunities.

    If we win it now it will be even more special though.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think we are leaving LF open for a deadline deal.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to louisthelipp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Enchilada in disagreement with Drewski. Next he will be calling Drewski a Piker or a Kimster. Why can't everyone think the same way as Enchilada?

    [/QUOTE]


    Ive been called worse.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sorry, but I feel like we have value shopped ourselves into Cleveland Indian level mediocrity. Dempster now? At over $13 mil a year? The same $13 mil a year they gave Victorin for God's sake? 

    I'm trying to stay positive but I don't think either player is worth $13 mil a year. If they win in 2013 Farrell should be a slam sunk for manager of the year.

    [/QUOTE]

    They must have sold all there tickets already......

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I understand that they were just trying to put a good team on the field and didn't have a lot of realistic options without mortgaging their future by dealing prospects or paying big money long term deals. I'm just not happy about those lack of options!

    Drewski makes some good points about victorino's all around abilities though and he is a definite dirt dog. From looking at his hit charts he looks to improve in Fenway with some decent double and triple pop included in the solid defensive profile.

    He's a complementary talent. We need some studs to emerge and I think they can in a year or 2.

    Let's ne clear though. We don't win without some studs emerging. We are just like any other team now, in an era of reduced overslot signings and diminished FA opportunities.

    If we win it now it will be even more special though.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sounds more like your mad at the price of FA these days, Which is why Boston is keeping their young talent. Fielding a team through FA will be unbelievably expensive and not a good strategy.

    There wasnt really much in FA this year that the Sox were involved in. The going rate was very high considering BJ Upton got 15M for 5 yrs. The Sox wanted to give less years, so you can expect the price to go up even further. Its def an overpay, but they got what they wanted. No more than 3 years.

    They have as good of a roster, if not better, than some teams that were in the playoffs this year. Less injuries, guys playing to their potential and a non-toxic clubhouse atmosphere will make a huge difference. The talent is there along with a new attitude and leader in Farrell. Now they just have to execute.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    There wasnt really much in FA this year that the Sox were involved in.

    Was it smart to choose the worst FA class to decide to spend about  $50M a year on weak FAs?

    Was it smart to choose the worst overpaying and inflated market price offseason to decide to sign so many players?

    This sickens me.

    I may have to take a break from baseball for a while. Seriously. This is nausiating.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Michaelkayn. Show Michaelkayn's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    Fun Fact: Adrian Beltre is getting paid just 3mil more per season then Shane Victorino...

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There wasnt really much in FA this year that the Sox were involved in.

    Was it smart to choose the worst FA class to decide to spend about  $50M a year on weak FAs?

    We HAD to fill spots Moon. Not much of a choice there.

    Was it smart to choose the worst overpaying and inflated market price offseason to decide to sign so many players?

    See above

    This sickens me.

    I may have to take a break from baseball for a while. Seriously. This is nausiating.

    I think you need to take a step back Moon and let it all sink in first. They HAD to fill spots no matter what this FA class was offering. They were NOT going to sell the farm unless blown away. Teams were asking for the moon (pun intended ;) in trades. Considering all the circumstances and situations, the Sox did basically what I thought they would do. No big splashes and fill the holes on short term deals and let the kids finish developing.

    I can tell you one thing, I will enjoy watching this team play hard and show a better attitude than I did this past year. Have a little faith Moon, its not as bad as your making it out to be.

    [/QUOTE]


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    "They are the owners, you are merely fans.

    Don't like it, follow the Dodgers or Angels."

    See this is the fundamental problem with your baseball worldview that causes you so much trouble here. You have adopted a "blind faith in ownership" position that is partially fueled by the erroneous assumption that fans have no power so they should bend over and smile or else not be a Sox fan.

    In fact fans have quite a bit of power to vote with their wallets and in particular with their TV eyeballs. Theo called it "feeding the monster" and it was a major reason why he gave for the Sox giving in to pressure to sign big names like AGon and Crawford - foolish, bloated contract. 

    So fans actually have quite a bit of power and the fiction you have created that they don't is just that. A self-serving fiction to justify your lectures to other fans to like it or lump it. 

    That said it's ironic how many fans don't appreciate that ownership is attempting not to fall into the same trap this time around. Yes they are overpaying but part of that overpayment is to get favorable (short contract) terms. Hamilton at five years 125 million would have been a huge risk. Of course it would have been even more than that as the Angels and Sox would have bid each other higher. 

    The Sox are gambling on their young farm talent 2-3 years from now(or maybe a big free agent signing when a real blue chipper comes along who doesn't have as much baggage as a guy like Hamilton). If they are right, this could work out. If not it will be a very tough sell. Meantime they have to put at least a halfway decent team on the field and that is what they seem to be doing.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    At least these are short term deals and we didn't lose any draft picks that I am aware of. They have the money and they appear to have the willingness to spend it. They just didn't have the FA pool to pick from. They made the best team they could given the circumstances and it is very possible that maybe some players just didn't want to come to Boston given the situation. I think they did the best they could given the circumstances.

    I'm just not enamored with this scenario. Longer term though, I think they made some expensive choices which keep the team in the running until the stud prospects hopefully arrive in force. These are "Don Baylor" signings. Good character players who will help the team win in the interim but not necessarily have the overall talent to go all the way.

    We have a great #1 pick coming up and a well stocked farm, and now most contracts coming to an end within 3 years. I like our chances 3-4 years from now. If we look at this with that time horizon in mind, it adds perspective to their decisions.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I understand that they were just trying to put a good team on the field and didn't have a lot of realistic options without mortgaging their future by dealing prospects or paying big money long term deals. I'm just not happy about those lack of options!

    Drewski makes some good points about victorino's all around abilities though and he is a definite dirt dog. From looking at his hit charts he looks to improve in Fenway with some decent double and triple pop included in the solid defensive profile.

    He's a complementary talent. We need some studs to emerge and I think they can in a year or 2.

    Let's ne clear though. We don't win without some studs emerging. We are just like any other team now, in an era of reduced overslot signings and diminished FA opportunities.

    If we win it now it will be even more special though.

    [/QUOTE]

    This is truly a team built around short term deals in a shallow top flight free agent- low risk- pool. I too was worried about the potential downside issues with Hamilton. Retaining our minor league talent is the right move at this time.

    As for contract values it is the market-free market forces at work- the same way owners/players/agents/unions negotiate- we fans decide to buy or not.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sorry, but I feel like we have value shopped ourselves into Cleveland Indian level mediocrity. Dempster now? At over $13 mil a year? The same $13 mil a year they gave Victorin for God's sake? 

    I'm trying to stay positive but I don't think either player is worth $13 mil a year. If they win in 2013 Farrell should be a slam sunk for manager of the year.

    [/QUOTE]


    Does anyone on this board really think there were any long term solutions for RS in this FA class? There were no Cain's or Cole Hammels or for that matter CC Sabathia's available. The 2 best FA's Greinke and Hamilton came w/ HUGE ?'s. So Ben did next best thing got some quality people who play the game right. He was able to get all @ 3yrs or less, while he might have overpayed for all this still gives him a lot of payroll flexibility moving forward so hopefully when the next Cliff Lee or CC Sabathia come to FA the RS will be in a position to make a move. Think RS would have been in that position if they had signed Greinke? and imagine what media would be saying if they signed Greinke and fell apart due to pressure of playing in Boston.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    There wasnt really much in FA this year that the Sox were involved in.

    Was it smart to choose the worst FA class to decide to spend about  $50M a year on weak FAs?

    We HAD to fill spots Moon. Not much of a choice there.

    Not if it wasn't going to really give us a chance to win in 2013. It did not do that.

    Was it smart to choose the worst overpaying and inflated market price offseason to decide to sign so many players?

    See above

    This sickens me.

    I may have to take a break from baseball for a while. Seriously. This is nausiating.

     

    I think you need to take a step back Moon and let it all sink in first. They HAD to fill spots no matter what this FA class was offering. They were NOT going to sell the farm unless blown away. Teams were asking for the moon (pun intended ;) in trades. Considering all the circumstances and situations, the Sox did basically what I thought they would do. No big splashes and fill the holes on short term deals and let the kids finish developing.

    I'm fine with choosing to not sell the farm, although I did suggest many moves. My point has been that if we were not going to seriously try and compete for a ring in 2013, we should have based every move and signing on this question being answered positively: Will it help us in 2014-2015 and possibly beyond?

    I can tell you one thing, I will enjoy watching this team play hard and show a better attitude than I did this past year. Have a little faith Moon, its not as bad as your making it out to be.

    [/QUOTE]

    Attitude smattitude. Give me Reggie jackson and the fueding Yanks and A's of old.

    I want rings, not daisies and kumbiyahs in the clubhouse.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    the Sox lacked one good clubhouse player and they go out and sign three? Yet not one has been called a clubhouse "leader"

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They really wanted Vic because he is a GG RF and a GG CF.  That's a rare combo that is useful this year (RF defense is very important at Fenway) and will be useful next year after Ells prob walks for somewhere between 5/75 and 5/110 (depending on his 2013 season).

    Vic isnt all bad.  In 45 SB attempts last year, he only got caught 6 times.  I dont consider 32 to be old and that doesnt sound like an old man to me. 

    Vic hit 17+ HR in 2011 and 17+ HR in 2010.  Considering that he keeps himself in great shape, has a phenominal work ethic, and that his other skills (baserunning / defense) havent eroded at all, I find it much more likely that a broken hand caused his 2012 power anomolly than natural decline.

    15+ HR, .270 BA, elite RF defense, elite CF defense , elite baserunning intelligence, work ethic.  In this post steroid league, thats a borderline all-star.  Vic in 2013 is a better ballplayer than Johnny Damon in any of his Boston years.

    ...And while I would have preferred 1 yr for dempster, the dude does get a TON of swings and misses.  A TON!

    [/QUOTE]

    He's a .500 pitcher with a 1.44 WHIP in his career! His best year was when he was 30. Wakefield would do a better job.

     
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