Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They really wanted Vic because he is a GG RF and a GG CF.  That's a rare combo that is useful this year (RF defense is very important at Fenway) and will be useful next year after Ells prob walks for somewhere between 5/75 and 5/110 (depending on his 2013 season).

    Vic isnt all bad.  In 45 SB attempts last year, he only got caught 6 times.  I dont consider 32 to be old and that doesnt sound like an old man to me. 

    Vic hit 17+ HR in 2011 and 17+ HR in 2010.  Considering that he keeps himself in great shape, has a phenominal work ethic, and that his other skills (baserunning / defense) havent eroded at all, I find it much more likely that a broken hand caused his 2012 power anomolly than natural decline.

    15+ HR, .270 BA, elite RF defense, elite CF defense , elite baserunning intelligence, work ethic.  In this post steroid league, thats a borderline all-star.  Vic in 2013 is a better ballplayer than Johnny Damon in any of his Boston years.

    ...And while I would have preferred 1 yr for dempster, the dude does get a TON of swings and misses.  A TON!

    [/QUOTE]

    He's a .500 pitcher with a 1.44 WHIP in his career! His best year was when he was 30. Wakefield would do a better job.

    [/QUOTE]

                 "Wakefield would do a better job"

                          LMFAO @ You.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    Spot on OP!

    The mediocre Sox, should have had the courage to rebuild whole hog.  Instead we have an innings eater, an injury-plagued ex-catcher with hands of stone at 1B, and two platoon OF making $18m per combined (and only one can field), and a 36 year old back-up catcher.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

     

    Dear Santa,

    For Christmas, I want Marcum to pitch for the Red Sox. 

    Thank you. 

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    I guess with this team they are waiting for Free Agents to fall to them on the cheaper side, than going after players like they should have done this winter. I am even wondering if they signed Napoli in the hopes of luring Hamilton here on a contract and now that Hamiliton went elsewhere they are looking for a way out of the Napoli deal. Just food for thought.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    This isn't K-Mart; it's Goodwill.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    You would think if the Diamondbacks really wanted to trade Upton they could have put Bauer in the deal and really got something good on return.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    The Sox got some of the better players in FA this year. It wasnt a great FA class this year. Sanchez wanted to stay in Detroit, Hamilton was getting his 5-6 years from someone and Grienke wasnt even a consideration. BJ Upton got 15M per for 5 years? Really? Id rather have the deals we made than that one the Braves made...

    Not too many difference makers this year that was a good fit with the Sox. Seems some in RSN have become a bit entitled.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    Nowadays even small market teams are paying large contracts.  Players don't have to go to just a few teams to hit the big payday.  Because of that, why would any big time players want to come to Boston and be part of the garbage clubhouse and atmosphere that has been the dark cloud over this franchise for the last year and a half.  Way to many options,if it were me (I golf...lol) I would want to enjoy going to work, the money is going to be there no matter where I go.  It seems the the RS are trying to fix 1 problem while not screwing up there long range plan. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattb5fon. Show mattb5fon's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This isn't K-Mart; it's Goodwill.

    [/QUOTE]

    partially right moon, its goodwill at kmart prices

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    What a bunch of spoiled RS fans, can't believe all the complaining! Look Ben did what he could given the situation. RS blew it up last yr, had $ to spend and no really good players available to spend it on. Ben did next thing, signed some of the best quality people / players that were availabe. All to 3 yr or less contracts giving the team a lot of flexibility moving forward, did not lose any draft picks or give up any top prospects for say a 38 yr old CY winner either which would have hurt franchise long term. Seems teams that try to win for today 2011 Red Sox {Crawford / Agon} 2011 Phillies {Lee/ Ibanez} 2012 Angels {Pujols /CJ Wilson} 2012 Dodgers {Beckett, Agon} seem to have 1 thing in common, watching playoffs in front of TV. While the teams that continue to do it right Giants, Cards, and Rays continue to be in hunt every year.

    So many similarties between 07 Red Sox and 08 Phillies. 2 teams built mostly thru their farm systems w/ a couple FA's and a couple of key trades. RS= Youk,Ells,Lester,Pedroia,Delcarmen. Phillies= Utley, Rollins,Hammels,Kendrick,Ruiz,Howard,Happ,Blanton. Then in efforts to win every year and trading away top prospects or huge FA signings are now down and out. RS= Lackey,Crawford,Agon while Phillies= Lee, Halladay, Pence. So I'm willing to practice some patience and stop criticising the fact that RS didn't bring in any big names. Hopefully those big name will be Boegarts, Barnes, Webster, De La Rosa, Brentz, Jacobs, Owens, etc.. Look it can be done other way 2009 Yanks [CC,Burnett,Texierra] but that list is much shorter. RS finally brought in a legit starter in Dempster on a 2 yr deal and nothing but complaints. Live in the real world David Price will not be suiting it up w/ Red Sox next yr, so get over it.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Sox got some of the better players in FA this year. It wasnt a great FA class this year. Sanchez wanted to stay in Detroit, Hamilton was getting his 5-6 years from someone and Grienke wasnt even a consideration. BJ Upton got 15M per for 5 years? Really? Id rather have the deals we made than that one the Braves made...

    Not too many difference makers this year that was a good fit with the Sox. Seems some in RSN have become a bit entitled.

    [/QUOTE]

    Almost everyone agrees that this was a very weak FA class, and this was the "better players", as you called them, we got (according to MLBtraderumors):

    #12 Victorino

    #14 Napoli

    #16 Dempster

    #35 Uehara

    So, basically we paid almost $50M a year and didn't even get a top 11 FA from a weak class.

    (Side note: I would argue that SV shouldn't have been rated #12 either, but onec you get past Kuroda at #9, it's pretty much a free-for-all.)

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/2013-top-50-free-agents-with-predictions-1.html

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    if this were such a weak class, then Ben shouldve done what i was espousing...sign just one elite player to make an impact...ie grienke, sanchez, hamilton....instead we spent a whole lot for not much....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Sox got some of the better players in FA this year. It wasnt a great FA class this year. Sanchez wanted to stay in Detroit, Hamilton was getting his 5-6 years from someone and Grienke wasnt even a consideration. BJ Upton got 15M per for 5 years? Really? Id rather have the deals we made than that one the Braves made...

    Not too many difference makers this year that was a good fit with the Sox. Seems some in RSN have become a bit entitled.

    [/QUOTE]

    Almost everyone agrees that this was a very weak FA class, and this was the "better players", as you called them, we got (according to MLBtraderumors):

    #12 Victorino

    #14 Napoli

    #16 Dempster

    #35 Uehara

    So, basically we paid almost $50M a year and didn't even get a top 11 FA from a weak class.

    (Side note: I would argue that SV shouldn't have been rated #12 either, but onec you get past Kuroda at #9, it's pretty much a free-for-all.)

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/2013-top-50-free-agents-with-predictions-1.html

     

    [/QUOTE]


    These guys seem to be a good fit one way or another for the Sox. Some guys already had their hearts set on playing somewhere other than Boston. Hunter, Haren, Sanchez, Grienke etc...

    If anyone expected this team to be fully retooled in just one offseason, they were only fooling themselves. Theres only so much a team can do with whats available and what fits into their long term goals. They arent just playing for next year anymore.

    You may not like the players they got, but realistically, there wasnt much out there without giving up the farm or handcuffing themselves with more long term deal that had loads of question marks.

    Its not over yet. There are still more moves to come.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    With the players that have been signed this off-season they have about $65 M spent.
    AGon, CC, Beckett, Youk, DiceK, Jenks, Punto, Sweeney---That's about $90-95 M give or take coming off. So Ben has about $30 M left to spend.

    Trade Ells and Lester--clean house, maybe even Buch and Bard. That's another $30 roughly. The Chicken and Beer regime will be gone except for Pedroia, Ortiz and Salty. Let's be realistic---no playoffs in the last three years--of what value is the current ensemble of players(3rd,3rd,5th).

    So by moving some people through trades and signing a couple of more FA's the Sox should be able to put together a more competitive team than finished last season.

       
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    With the players that have been signed this off-season they have about $65 M spent.
    AGon, CC, Beckett, Youk, DiceK, Jenks, Punto, Sweeney---That's about $90-95 M give or take coming off. So Ben has about $30 M left to spend.

    Trade Ells and Lester--clean house, maybe even Buch and Bard. That's another $30 roughly. The Chicken and Beer regime will be gone except for Pedroia, Ortiz and Salty. Let's be realistic---no playoffs in the last three years--of what value is the current ensemble of players(3rd,3rd,5th).

    So by moving some people through trades and signing a couple of more FA's the Sox should be able to put together a more competitive team than finished last season.

     

     [/QUOTE]


    Why so quick to trade lester, or Buch for that matter? makes no sense to get rid of pitchers that are as good as lester and Buch and have friendly contracts. Lester had a down year. It happens. Youd rather have the retreds that are on the market now?

    get over the "chicken and beer" regime. Thats ridiculous reason to get rid of two young and talented starters. This is still a very talented team in which everything that could go wrong, did last year. We have new leadership and players who will bring a better attitude to that clubhouse.

    If you think getting rid of two of our best starters will improve this team, I have to question your thinking on that one.

    I expect some more moves before ST. maybe even an Ellsbury trade if they can bring back a solid return. Lester and Buch and Bard are going nowhere though...Nor should they.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    So you are contented that you have some new players but your base has the same faces as the last three years during which they finished 3,3, 5.

    Do you honestly believe they would have made the playoffs last year with a health Ortiz and with Beck, AGon and CC? Don't go the injury route---every team has them--it's poor pitching and they haven't solved that.

    Lester and Buch have lost their competitiveness--they need a change of scenery. They are good for us but not good enough. If Ben isn't going on the open market have an internal tryout this ST.

    Lester, Buch, Rubby, Barnes, Workman, Carpenter, Webster--see who impresses the most.

    I say trade Lester and Buch---how much worse can they do.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So you are contented that you have some new players but your base has the same faces as the last three years during which they finished 3,3, 5.

    Do you honestly believe they would have made the playoffs last year with a health Ortiz and with Beck, AGon and CC? Don't go the injury route---every team has them--it's poor pitching and they haven't solved that.

    Lester and Buch have lost their competitiveness--they need a change of scenery. They are good for us but not good enough. If Ben isn't going on the open market have an internal tryout this ST.

    Lester, Buch, Rubby, Barnes, Workman, Carpenter, Webster--see who impresses the most.

    I say trade Lester and Buch---how much worse can they do.

    [/QUOTE]


    Lester had a bad year. Like I said, it happens. Buch looked strong once he got his legs under him after being out with a back injury. Doubie looked strong, hit a wall, then finished strong.

    How can you say Lester and Buch have lost their competitiveness? Thats not true. Lester and Buch have already stated their pleasure with farrell coming back and have said they cant wait to get back to work. Sounds like their ready to compete to me.

    These guys have had 3 pitching coaches and now their 3rd manager in 2 years. I expect Farrell will give them a sense of security and familiarity that will get them back to their 2010 form. I believe he will help Bard get back to being a dominant bullpen arm once again too. No prospect is a sure thing and cant be fully counted on. Not to mention none of them are ready yet.  All 3 of these guys are ALE tested and have been successful.

    How much worse can they do you ask? Trade your 2 best pitchers in Lester and Buch and find out.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    These guys seem to be a good fit one way or another for the Sox. Some guys already had their hearts set on playing somewhere other than Boston. Hunter, Haren, Sanchez, Grienke etc...

    Perhaps. Listen, I'm not saying I wanted the guys in the top 11, I was just responding to your statement that the Sox "got some of the better players". I see a very weak FA class. I see we didn't get anyone from the top 11. I see we spent about $50M. I just don't see it as making us contenders in 2013 or helping us much in 2014 or beyond.

    If anyone expected this team to be fully retooled in just one offseason, they were only fooling themselves.

    Exactly, and this is why I was saying all along that we should only make trades and signings that cost-effectively help us in 2014 and maybe 2015. 

    I don't see these signing in this light. I see them as management's idea of convincing the fans we will compete in 2013 without making any longterm commitments that may burn us for too long.

    Theres only so much a team can do with whats available and what fits into their long term goals. They arent just playing for next year anymore.

    We aren't playing for the year after either- that's for sure. That's what sadddens me most. We played it half way and got nowhere. 

    I said from the outset that I saw only extreme measure that could be taken to make us one of the favorites to win in 2013, and since those moves would be very risky and cost us top prospects along the way, we should have geared all moves towards 2014 and beyond. These moves would have gradually improved us in 2013 as well, but not enough to make us strong contenders. That was Ok with me, since I would see us on the road to becoming stronger beyond 2013.  I don't feel that way now.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    a three year contract is still a long time

    2013

    2014

    2015

    thats a lot of seasons to me....not exactly why people are talking about these guys underperforming not being a problem because of the length of the contract

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    a three year contract is still a long time

    2013

    2014

    2015

    thats a lot of seasons to me....not exactly why people are talking about these guys underperforming not being a problem because of the length of the contract

    [/QUOTE]


    Still alot better than 6-7 year deals. What have Lackey, Dice K, Crawford, and Agon brought to RS. Did any of them live up to what we expected of them.  At least on 2-3 yr deals players are playing for their next contract and need to perform. You could make the arguement that the only long term contract that worked out for RS was Manny. IMO long term gaurenteed contracts are baseballs biggest problem, in football you don't perform your gone- simple.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    a three year contract is still a long time

    2013

    2014

    2015

    thats a lot of seasons to me....not exactly why people are talking about these guys underperforming not being a problem because of the length of the contract

    [/QUOTE]


    Gee, you are right.  Why not go sign players to 7 year deals?!!? It's the same thing!!   Isn't that your point here?  That the Sox might as well not avoid the 7 year players (re: Greinke) because the 3 year guys are also long term?

     

    I am getting why you teach history and not math ;)

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    2 years of dempster or five years of sanchez for the same price...given their ages....i may not teach math but apparently you never passed it...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Welcome K-Mart shoppers....to the 2013 version of the Boston Redsox.

    Moon has made an excellent point regarding the lack of clear direction for the club. I would have rather spent, or even overspent, for 1-2 studs, than for a handful of marginal talents like we've done. Johnny Gomes for $ 5 million per year for 2 yrs? It's just like the year we paid $5 million each for Brad Penny+John Smoltz. I screamed then we'd have been far wiser to spend $10 million on a solid number 2 starter, than rolling the dice in the trash bin. Victorino at $13 million per year? Sheesh....I'd say it was an overpayment of $4-5 million each season. I have no idea what to even suggest at this point. I would have tried to nail down Hamilton and then made a play for a frontline starter via trade, but I believe top tier prospects should ONLY be traded when the club needs a final piece or two to win it all. I think we're going to be a mediocre team with little chance to seriously compete this season....again.

     

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